Democratic Party leadership statements of support for Israel

Dumb question: Are all these pinko cannucklehead yuppies gonna be wearing swastica arm bands while they're doing this ****??

Attention Deficit Americans Are Being Misled to War

by Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=9311

Here is an interesting article.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-07-14-mideast_x.htm

Notice this part...



Now,when Israel pulled out of Lebanon,and the Gaza Strip,the UN promised that the govt of Lebanon would do just that?

Why didnt the UN keep its part of the bargain?

Cyclops, if somebody comes in your house with a gun aimed at your head, I would like to know how you take the middle of the road? Do you tell the guy, go ahead and shoot me but please shoot me in the leg instead of in my head?

You are correct, I see the situation as pretty black and white, and the reason the problems persist as they do, we are not admitting what the problem is.

What we have are a collection of nations and terrorist organizations that simply wish to exterminate Israel and drive them into the sea. Until we admit the reality of the situation, we will never solve the problem, Cyclops.

So, lets get over this mamby pamby stuff, and take a position, would your rather the nation of Israel be disbanded, or should they be defending themselves, and will we support them in that effort? You can't claim the middle of the road, Cyclops, you need to take a position one way or the other.

MOOOooooooooooooooo plop, plop, plop........



I mean, I'll start worrying about Jewish conspiracies the day I see a bunch of jews flying an airplane into the Washington Monument or the Astrodome, or trying to poison the US senate office building with anthrax, but nobody should try holding their breath until that happens.

Slammites on the other hand... Somebody tells me he knows about five slammites who AREN'T involved in some sort of a conspiracy and it gets my attention.

You want something to worry about?? Try this:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1183

The impression I get is that Israel and every Jew on Earth could disappear right now, and the United States and Europe would still have enormous problems with slammites for no other reason than that we represent powerful countries which have not yet been subjugated BY I-slam and slammism.

Paul Craig Roberts and his ilk basically don't get it. If Israel wants to ride point in dealing with this menace while there is stil time, we damned well need to support her.

Don't be overly dramatic. You are using incorrect metaphors - this is more akin to having rocks thrown at the front of your house. Damaging, but not life-threatening. There has been no military action taken towards Israel threatening its existence, by Palestine or Hezbollah or Lebanon, in the last year, whatsoever.



There is more than one problem, of course. You simply seek to simplify the situation into one which can be easily solved with aggression. Hardly a reasoned, well-thought out response.



I'm sure there are extreme elements of these nations who wish this to be true. There are extreme elements of our nation that wish to see the Middle East brought under our dominion; what makes them wrong and our extreme elements right?

You have the ability to offer a definition of the 'reality' of the situation, but it hardly makes it the 'reality' of the situation. It is an extremely complicated scenario with many future implications, and cannot be solved by over-simplifying problems.



Can you not read my post? Was I somehow unclear?

I wrote:


You injected a new element into the equation with this last post:



Well, we certainly aren't going to stop giving Israel military aid money, are we? I think they can pretty much take care of themselves, having a military that is far larger and far more powerful than anyone else in the region thanks to our years of largess.

Earlier in the thread, you accused posters of being anti-American for not supporting Israel. Do you realize, Okie, that Israel is not America? That they have never acted in America's best interests, ever? That it is not un-American to not support Israel, when you disagree with their policies and actions?

I feel no more kinship or special love towards Israel than I do any other nation in the world. They certainly have done nothing to earn that feeling from me, now have they?

Cycloptichorn

How many times must it be repeated that Israel is not a democracy. Palestinians do not have the right to vote. They do not recieve government assistance for their schools or hospitals. The Palestinian's lands are being taken away to the point Israeli government/Jews/organizations now own over 80 percent of the land.

Take a look at the map of Israel and the slammite world.....

I mean, this one is not complicated.

Cyclops and cicerone, this issue is not that complicated. Israel is our best ally in the Middle East. And it is the closest to the ideals that we hold dear, as Americans. Since the late 40's, Israel has been repeatedly attacked, and it has successfully defended itself. The last decades, they have endured endless acts of terroristm. Terrorists are supported by the Palestinian authorites, and by surrounding countries. The same do not believe Israel had a right to exist, and they vow to push them into the sea, exterminate them, or wipe them off the map. Israel is fighting for its very existence.

Do we support them or not? Every administration, both Democrat and Republican, have all overwhelmingly supported them, for good reason.

Yes, I think the issue is pretty clear. Terrorists are bad apples, and if the authorities where these people operate or hide out will not aggessively fight them, round them up, and get rid of them, then the Israelis have every right to go get them wherever they are. If innocent people get hurt in the process, it can't be helped. It is the fault of the countries, areas, and people where these organizations are operating, not the fault of Israel.

Israel is a very small country. The other countries surrounding them make their land area look like a fly speck. Instead of supporting and harboring terrorists, they should instead help the Palestinians be happy. They have plenty of land to be happy and mind their own business. They are simply a bunch of malcontents that should instead do something productive instead of making war, teaching their children to hate, to blow themselves up, all in the name of killing a handful of people they hate, while the cowards running the show sit in the background.

My god, your post shows a staggering amount of ignorance about what life is like for Palestinians. You simply don't have a clue what you are talking about, but would rather generalize and make proclamations based upon your biases...



Sure. Huge amounts of money given to political parties being the reason, of course.

Let me ask you, Okie et others: what right did Israel have to exist, other than the fact that the West decided that they had a right to exist? The country certainly wasn't Israel prior to our involvment in the area, but instead was full of Palestinians. Did Palestine not have a right to exist?

What is the special quality of Israel that gives it a greater right to exist than other countries?

I bet noone can answer those questions.

Cycloptichorn

I don't see why all of the countries can't continue to exist. Your question is pointless. I don't know of any countries Israel has been trying to exterminate.

So you believe the little plot of land set up by the United Nations after World War II should be rescinded, apparently that is what you think. I don't. I admit I have a bias, cyclops, its from watching the goings on there ever since I can remember, from the 50s and 60s. I come down on the side of the the Israelis. I am not a Jew. I simply think the other countries should do something to help the Palestinians, and I think they should all do something productive instead of making war on Israel. They've lost repeated times, they should get over it and knock off the nonsense.

If we all sit around trying to figure out how to right the wrongs from decades ago or even hundreds of years ago, our lives are wasted, cyclops. Are you prepared to leave this country and turn it back over to the Indians?

Can you answer the questions posed to you, okie?



You do realize that there was a country in that 'little plot of land' that was pretty damned important to the people in the region before we set Israel there, don't you?

These are not pointless questions, but ones which are fundamental to understanding the situation in the region. If you can't answer these questions, you cannot support your opinion that Israel has more of a right to exist than the country which was there before Israel was placed there.

Cycloptichorn

If you can't understand why these questions are important, then you can't understand why the issue is complicated, and why the Palestinians are more than just 'malcontents.'

Cycloptichorn

I realize that, cyclops. Also, there were Indians here occupying this country before the Europeans arrived. If you are of European heritage, shouldn't you now leave, according to your reasoning?

I thought you would love the United Nations? This is the arrangement to provide a place for Jews that had been kicked around most places, and a few million of them exterminated by the Germans. WWII was a huge happening, and this is what happened by consensus through the U.N. to fix a problem. And it is not like these people never had any claim to the area before.

I think there is plenty of room for all to live in peace and contentment, but the Palestinian terrorists simply do not wish to, and perhaps their brothers in neighboring countries have done less for them than Israel.

I made my decision, cyclops. I support Israel. Which do you support, Israel or the terrorists?

okie wrote:
Israel is our best ally in the Middle East.

okie et all have it in reverse; The US is Israel's best ally. We give Israel over three billion dollars every year to a country that's not even a democracy by any stretch of anybody's imagination. Palestinians do not receive any benefit, cannot vote, and their lands are being taken away by the Jews. Many of the Palestinians now living in Israel have lived there for many generations before Jews started arriving after 1967, and before that it was called "Palestine."

No, because as I explicitly said earlier in the thread, I am not - and have never - called for Israel to be removed. This is a straw man which you continue to bring up, yet I have never said anything closely approximating this.



It was a poor arrangement, and a mistake. Supporting the UN doesn't mean that you agree with every decision that was made, just as supporting the US doesn't mean that you have to agree with every decision that they make.

The problem with this decision is that there happened to be a lot of people living in the area, who would have to be forcibly removed in order for there to be a 'Jewish' state. This created problems which have resonated to this day.



Neither. I don't support terrorism, but I also don't support Theocracies.

Cycloptichorn

cyclops, I think Tico pointed out Israel offered 98% of what the Palestinians demanded, and they turned it down. It is evident they want nothing less than the extermination of Israel. They are apparently not satisfied with the prospect of a Palestinian state, and leave Israel alone.

I support Israel. I do not think it is practical to support terrorists that will accept nothing less than eliminating Israel. I still do not know what you support. Do you?

The Great Israel Land Grab

Dr. Salman Abu-Sitta is a Palestinian researcher with special interest in Palestinian refugees. He is a former Member of the Palestine National Council and holds a Ph.D from the University of London. He resides in Amman

For the first time, Israel has embarked on a plan to sell the land of the 1948 Palestinian refugees (92% of Israel) to Jewish individuals. Clearly this is in violation of international law. It will also make the refugees' return and compensation more difficult technically. The UN should appoint a Custodian of the refugees' land in Israel.


The great Israel Land Grab is not a headline of a Palestinian newspaper or a title of a Palestinian memorandum to the UN. It is a headline of an article published by an Israeli newspaper (Ha'aretz, February 1, 1998) decrying the riches which have been amassed by the Israeli farmers who sell Palestinian land. Israel is now embarking on a dangerous and far reaching plan to sell to Jewish individuals Palestinian land from which the owners were uprooted and made refugees. This plan would put obstacles in the path of their return. Although these obstacles can be removed, it would make the task technically harder.


Imagine tenants living in a large apartment building and paying very low rent. The caretaker of the building proposes to each tenant that, since the caretaker made sure the owner is kept away and will not be allowed to return, the caretaker and the tenant would share the apartments between them. Each tenant would be allowed to register in his own name 25% of the apartment against compensation provided that he forfeits the right to the lease of the rest for the caretaker's own use and sale. What would you call this? Plain robbery and fraud. Unfortunately this could work as long as the owners is kept a refugee abroad. That is what Israel's policy was and is today


For 50 years Israel kept the Palestinian land it took by force in 1948 (18,643 sq. km. out of 20,325 sq. km., or 92% of Israel's area) under the Custodian of the Absence (Landowners) property. Through a legal maze designed to remove the accusation of land robbery and the responsibility before international law, the Custodian transferred this property to a 'Development Authority' which can exploit the land to the benefit of Jews only, even though they may not be residents of Israel. In an agreement between the Government and the Jewish National Fund (JNF), Palestinian land and JNF holdings are to be administered by Israel Land Administrations (ILA) under JNF rules, i.e., exploitation by Jews only.


The great majority of Palestinian land is leased to the Kibbutz and Moshav for 49 years (i.e., expiry date is 1998). The Israeli 'farmers' number today about 154,000 Jews (2.7% of Israel's population) and control the land of 4,500,00 refugees. In the period 1948 - 1967, Israel left these lands with minimum interference pending a peace settlement with the Arabs. Following the 1967 War, Israel felt emboldened and introduced a set of laws (e.g. expropriating 'mewat' land as State land) which made the recovery of these lands more difficult according to Israeli law. Now, with the ill-fated Oslo Agreement and the evident weakness of the PNA, a frenzy of land grabbing, engineered by Sharon and Eitan, using the vehicle of the Ministry of National Infrastructures, started in earnest.
With the abject failure of the Kibbutz as an ideology and an economic engine, Kibbutz farmers were allowed to own and build on a portion of the land leased to them. In return for the use of 'their land', they would be compensated generously for not less than 20% of the land. Ordinance 533, later replaced by 611, which was enacted when Sharon was minister of housing, gave the farmers the best deal. As Russian immigrants began pouring in, housing was needed, and it was convenient to direct them to the near empty Southern District and mainly Arab Northern District. The farmers were given an extra incentive. They were allowed to buy back the land for 15% of the compensation value they received for it. They were thus transformed from bankrupt farmers with outdated ideology to rich 'farmers' who owned a lot of real estate. The sudden wealth of the farmers aroused criticism of old Zionists, such as the JNF, who insisted that Palestinian land should be the property of 'the Jewish People everywhere in perpetuity.' Sale to individuals, they say, may encourage some to sell land back to Arabs. Recently, Jewish extremists at Lydda terrorized a Jewish neighbor who sold his villa to a Palestinian Israeli family.

To resolve this dispute, a series of ordinances were passed (640 and 727) and finally a committee headed by Prof. Boaz Ronen was formed to determine the land percentage, the mechanism and procedure of selling Palestinian land leased by ILA to Kibbutz farmers. In June 1997, the recommendations of the committee were approved to the obvious pleasure of Sharon. As a result, 'ownership' of 600,000 apartments shall be transferred from the State Custodian to the tenants.
The Israeli government, through the ILA, earned $700 million in 1997 alone for its share in the proceedings. (This sale of a small portion of Palestinian land shows the fallacy of Israel's argument that the whole of Palestinian land and property are not worth more than $300 million if compensation is to be paid). In 1997, National Infrastructure Minister Sharon planned to build 50,000 housing units; 30,000 have been sold, 3,130 remain unsold, the rest are at various stages of tendering. It is noteworthy that the first stage of construction is designed to break the Palestinian monolithic continuity in Israel by building around Arab towns such as Amr and Taibah. Moreover, construction of the long planned 399 km $2 billion Trans Israel Highway has started. In February 1998, a contract was signed with a large Canadian-Israeli consortium to build it. This highway runs inland parallel to the coast. It starts in Galilee and ends in Beer Sheba. It cuts across the Palestinian population concentrations in Galilee, the Little Triangle and Negev. It is part of the 'Star' plan concocted by Sharon to break and expropriate Arabs lands, to prevent Israel's return to the 1967 Armistice Line and to provide housing for Russian immigrants in Arab areas in Israel. All these activities are contrary to international law. Property of 'Absentee' (i.e. expelled) owners should not be fragmented or sold to Jews anywhere in the world. It should remain in custody as the property of all those to whom the (Palestinians') Right to Return applies. In order to prevent this plain unabashed robbery of property-in-custody, the UN should send a commission to Israel. Bodies such as the UN Palestine Solidarity Committee, and the Arab League, and last but least the PLO should press for its formation. The mandate for this commission could be:


To determine and document the present status of Palestinian land (Israel minus Jewish land in 1948). .
To obtain copies of all records of Palestinian land kept by ILA. (The Purchase, Ownership and registration Division and the Information Division, Database)? .
To recommend to the UN the appointment of a Custodian of Palestinian Land and to propose measures to prevent its unlawful disposition.


I'm just wondering how these right-wingnuts would react if their land was confiscated like the lands Palestinians used to own with no rights to ownership of their own land, and sold by the Jews for profit? Frank is right; all these guys are morons.

Really? Can you point out where he did that?

Cycloptichorn