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Democratic Party leadership statements of support for Israel

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 02:36 pm
McGentrix wrote:


Another iron rule that applies to this and every Israeli attempt to strike back at Islamist terrorists is that, just when the Israeli Defense Forces really start to hurt the enemy, the world community - including the United States - intervenes to save the terrorists from destruction.


Hate to disillusion anybody, but I don't think that's going tio work this time. With half a million or so people holed up in bomb shelters and several hundred killed and injured, I strongly suspect they are not going to care what anybody else thinks. In particular, if Russians have anything to say about it, Israelis are probably going to ask them if they really feel like getting into an atom bomb war over Iran and Syria, and th answer to that one is pretty obvious.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 02:41 pm
They'd better have "clean" bombs or know their meteorology with confidence.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 02:55 pm
Rabbi Michael Lerner | End the Suffering in the Middle East
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706A.shtml
"The people of the Middle East are suffering again as militarists on all sides, and cheerleading journalists, send forth missiles, bombs and endless words of self-justification for yet another pointless round of violence between Israel and her neighbors," writes Rabbi Michael Lerner. This most recent episode of irrationality "evokes tears of sadness, incredulity at the lack of empathy on all sides, anger at how little anyone seems to have learned from the past, and moments of despair as we once again see the religious and democratic ideals subordinated to the cynical realism of militarism."
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 03:10 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, that's fine, but once again we come back to the point of Tactics versus Strategy.

What is Israel's Strategy for defeating terrorism and securing their country? Noone seems to know, including them. We know what their tactics are, but does Israel really believe what they are doing is going to add to their long-term stability in any way?

Cycloptichorn


I'm not sure what you mean by tactics or strategy? If my neighbor sits on his front porch and lobs grenades into my yard and my house and at me, what am I supposed to do? I don't know whether you call it tactics or stategy, but whatever you call it, I probably would go over and take his hand grenades away, and if he tries to land a punch in the process, I might land one back. Is that strategy or tactics?

cicerone imposter wrote:

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No, it's only the "degree" to which Israel has responded to this conflict. Firepower doesn't necessarily mean they use it wisely.

Most countries in this world including most people would have preferred to have seen some involvement by other countries to intervene before bombing the shet out of Lebanon. People makes peace, not bombs.


What if my neighbors don't care, and they say, stay off the man's property. Meanwhile he continues to sit on his porch and lob grenades at me. I would say their firepower is being used wisely by going in and taking out the launch pad sites and the places where Hezbollah is launching their operations. Yes, people make peace, not bombs, how about the neighbor, in this case, Hezbollah making peace? I don't see it happening. Get real, cicerone. This all comes under the heading, "SELF DEFENSE."
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 03:12 pm
You see it as "self defense," because you don't understand anything about democracy, land grab by fraud, and international laws.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 03:14 pm
Something you fail to understand is the simple fact that if somebody comes and takes away your home and livelyhood, and the only thing you have are home made bombs, one doesn't have too many options.

It's their way of saying, everything worth living for has been taken away, and there's nobody to help them.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 03:18 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Something you fail to understand is the simple fact that if somebody comes and takes away your home and livelyhood, and the only thing you have are home made bombs, one doesn't have too many options.

It's their way of saying, everything worth living for has been taken away, and there's nobody to help them.


Then you apparently did not say what you actually believe imposter when you said Israel should exist and they should defend themselves. Which is it?

What do you actually believe, Imposter?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 03:29 pm
okie, If you borthered to read all my statements in this thread, you would already know my answer.

You just don't "get it."
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 03:40 pm
I get "it" imposter, but what I don't get is your opinion. You can't have it both ways. The terrorists are bitter enemies of Israel and have vowed to exterminate them as a country. Either you support Israel's self defense or you do not. You want to condemn terrorists somewhat, but you want to condemn Israel just as much, if not more. You leave no solution to the conflict. You are one mixed up opinion. Typical of a liberal opinion. You wish not to take any responsibility for anything. You wish to criticize anything and everybody.

Well, I'm calling you off the fence imposter. Get off the fence and make up your mind about something. Just anything. Make up your mind about something for crying out loud.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 03:54 pm
No, you still don't get it; the Israelis are their own worst enemy for taking away civil and legal rights away from Palestinians.

Your brain just refuses to see it.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 04:15 pm
Thats not what this is about, Imposter. Such issues can be worked out. There is a long history to the problems you mention as to why those situations are as they are. That is not about this, however. Cicerone, to answer a question or solve a problem, you have to correctly identify the problem. You are talking about problems that do not relate to what is happening. Terrorists are not about civil rights. They are about exterminating Israel. Now repeat that until you get it understood.
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freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 04:18 pm
One Giant Gaza Strip

Israel has justified the carnage by pointing to the 2 soldiers who were captured by members of the Lebanese resistance organization, Hezbollah. But Israel's defense is hopelessly flawed.

What if relatives or friends of the many US detainees who've been illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo, decided to use F-16s and laser-guided missiles to attack the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, New York City's electrical grid, and vast swathes of the highway system? Would that be equally justifiable? Or, more to the point, what if Hezbollah decided to blow up major parts of Israel's infrastructure in retaliation for the hundreds of Lebanese prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons without any legal recourse? Would that be okay?
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 04:29 pm
The scenarios you suggest are already happening, it seems to me. We might as well admit it is a war. If you think not, you are in denial. The reason people are at Gitmo is because they were captured in the acts of trying to kill or damage us. Hezbollah is trying to blow up Israel now, so whats new about your scenarios?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 04:38 pm
okie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, that's fine, but once again we come back to the point of Tactics versus Strategy.

What is Israel's Strategy for defeating terrorism and securing their country? Noone seems to know, including them. We know what their tactics are, but does Israel really believe what they are doing is going to add to their long-term stability in any way?

Cycloptichorn


I'm not sure what you mean by tactics or strategy? If my neighbor sits on his front porch and lobs grenades into my yard and my house and at me, what am I supposed to do? I don't know whether you call it tactics or stategy, but whatever you call it, I probably would go over and take his hand grenades away, and if he tries to land a punch in the process, I might land one back. Is that strategy or tactics?

cicerone imposter wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it's only the "degree" to which Israel has responded to this conflict. Firepower doesn't necessarily mean they use it wisely.

Most countries in this world including most people would have preferred to have seen some involvement by other countries to intervene before bombing the shet out of Lebanon. People makes peace, not bombs.


What if my neighbors don't care, and they say, stay off the man's property. Meanwhile he continues to sit on his porch and lob grenades at me. I would say their firepower is being used wisely by going in and taking out the launch pad sites and the places where Hezbollah is launching their operations. Yes, people make peace, not bombs, how about the neighbor, in this case, Hezbollah making peace? I don't see it happening. Get real, cicerone. This all comes under the heading, "SELF DEFENSE."


Yeah, here you go again comparing an entirely complicated problem to a simple problem and then determining that the initial problem is just as simple. It is not, and your insistance that it is only belies your lack of understanding of the situation.

The difference between Tactics and Strategy, in terms of your misplaced analogy, is thus: Strategy is answering the question, 'What will be the best way to keep my home safe?' Tactics are the methods you use to carry out that strategy. In this case, if someone is threatening your house, what is the best way to keep it safe? Violence, reason, appeal to authority, negotiation, compromise? It isn't just a matter of the best 'short-term' solution, either; one must consider the long-term effects of one's actions, and then accordingly choose a tactical manuever.

In this case, your analogy is terrible, because Israel was never in any real danger as a nation. Their response is the equivalent of you killing or maiming someone who threw a pebble at your front door. Sure, it'll stop their actions, but will it make you safer in the long run?

Cycloptichorn
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 04:39 pm
Quote:
The reason people are at Gitmo is because they were captured in the acts of trying to kill or damage us.


Some of the people in Gitmo were doing that. Many were turned in by Pakistanis for monetary bounty, and were innocent.

Cycloptichorn
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 04:41 pm
look who's talking about denial. Damn morons.

okie et thinks it's so easy to get rid of Hezbollah, they can't figure out why the great US army is having so much difficulties in Iraq and Afghanistan. They still can't see the Iran connection to all of these problems. Hell, Lebannon is an easy target; bomb them to smitherines, and maybe Hezbollah will disappear. Dummass.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 07:33 pm
Ex-CIA chief: Bomb Syria!
Woolsey says Damascus, Iran think U.S. 'nation of cowards'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: July 17, 2006
8:35 p.m. Eastern


By Joe Kovacs
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com



Former CIA Director James Woolsey

As violence continues to escalate between Israel and Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon, the former head of the Central Intelligence Agency says the U.S. should now take military action against Syria, which, along with Iran, is believed to be backing Hezbollah.

"I think we ought to execute some airstrikes against Syria, against the instruments of power of that state, against the airport, which is the place where weapons shuttle through from Iran to Hezbollah and Hamas," James Woolsey said. "I think both Syria and Iran think that we're cowards. They saw us leave Lebanon after the '83 Marine Corps bombing. They saw us leave Mogadishu in '93."

The former CIA chief, now a vice president for the global consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton, said it is much too soon to talk about a realistic end to the fighting.

"I think the last thing we ought to do now is to start talking about cease-fires and a rest," he said.

"Iran has drawn a line in the sand. They've sent Hezbollah and Hamas against Israel. They're pushing their nuclear weapons program. They're helping North Korea, working with them on a ballistic missile program. They're doing their best to take over southern Iraq with [radical Shiite cleric] Muqtada al-Sadr and some of their other proxies. This is a very serious challenge from Iran and we need to weaken them badly, and undermining the Syrian government with airstrikes would help weaken them badly."
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 07:39 pm
The Gitmo killers:But that is a far cry from calling a group of men "killers" when the vast majority of them clearly aren't.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 07:44 pm
Bushco and righties keep piling up the lies, and Americans still support these dangerous morons. Go figure.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 07:53 pm
If we're a 'nation of cowards' it's because we dont face up to the crimes against humanity of Bushie and Blair and Gonzalez, etc. ""Rebuilding America's Defenses" - A Summary
Blueprint of the PNAC Plan for U.S. Global Hegemony". That's global hegemony. If you're not with Bushie you're with the "terrorists". Submit or suffer the same fate as MLK and his ilk.
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