Give Me One (JUST ONE) Reason.....

Children growing up might simply be told that someday they would marry another person, rather than a person of the opposite sex. I don't want to live in that society, and, therefore, I oppose every step in that direction.

I await a flurry of posts putting words in my mouth that I neither said nor intended.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Children growing up might simply be told that someday they would marry another person, rather than a person of the opposite sex. I don't want to live in that society, and, therefore, I oppose every step in that direction.

I await a flurry of posts putting words in my mouth that I neither said nor intended.

I'm still puzzling over what's wrong with telling children that someday they'll be able to marry someone they love.

I always thought that was one of the great things about Western societies. Arranged marriage is just so old-school and unevolved.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Sorry, I don't accept that. There are reasons for likes or dislikes; they are not spontaneous emotions that arise from nowhere.

What specifically about a society in which gays were allowed to marry would you dislike, or not want to live in? Or is it some latent homophobia speaking, which you can't write out loud? Just wondering.

Cycloptichorn

I have nothing whatever against people with birth defects, and I believe that people are all equal, but I need not consider birth defects normal. Your assertion that I cannot start from a system of values, but must justify it is incorrect. Values are a starting point, not something you deduce. I may have the values I have for a reason, but that's irrelevant. I like our culture the way it is, or, at least the part of it connected to gender. Your typical assumption that anyone who doesn't believe in government sponsorship of gay marriage must be a homophobe is the easy way out of this argument for you, but incorrect.

This is probably simply one in a chain of changes, extending over the years, with the end goal of giving homosexuality exactly the same status in society as heterosexuality.

candidone1 wrote:

I have read your post Brandon.
Here is what you have stated:

Brandon9000 wrote:

In my opinion, homosexuality is a birth defect

Birth Defect=a defect that is present at birth. Can occur during fetal development or through the birthing process.

Brandon9000 wrote:

I do think it's purely physical and not learned

Purely physical and not learned=there is a genetic predisposition for homosexuality completely independent from any environmental influences or individual choices.

Brandon9000 wrote:

but there are undoubtedly people who can go either way.

Go either way?
If homosexuality is, strictly speaking, a birth defect, or something innate but not learned, then how might someone go about "going either way".
If homosexuality is, as you propose, a birth defect, then there is a predisposition toward homosexuality and their orientation is predetermined, not by environmental influences, rather, by genetics.
It's analogous to arguing that someone may, at birth or afterward, become either male or female.
Brandon, you are incorrect in your thesis. If homosexuality is a "birth defect", it is not unlike an individual's gender and it will not be altered by the environment.
When dealing with genetics, all maters of choice vanish.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Children growing up might simply be told that someday they would marry another person, rather than a person of the opposite sex.

Unless you are referring to a child being instructed while in the fetus as to what their sexual orientation is, you have contradicted yourself.

So, according to you, someone can't be born bisexual? Such a person might be capable of being influenced by his society.

Oh I think most of us understand the intent behind your posts just fine.......and if calling you on it annoys you... well then, as your hero would say... mission accomplished.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Sorry, I don't accept that. There are reasons for likes or dislikes; they are not spontaneous emotions that arise from nowhere.

What specifically about a society in which gays were allowed to marry would you dislike, or not want to live in? Or is it some latent homophobia speaking, which you can't write out loud? Just wondering.

Cycloptichorn

I have nothing whatever against people with birth defects, and I believe that people are all equal, but I need not consider birth defects normal. Your assertion that I cannot start from a system of values, but must justify it is incorrect. Values are a starting point, not something you deduce. I may have the values I have for a reason, but that's irrelevant. I like our culture the way it is, or, at least the part of it connected to gender. Your typical assumption that anyone who doesn't believe in government sponsorship of gay marriage must be a homophobe is the easy way out of this argument for you, but incorrect.

You are quite incorrect here. Values are not absolutes that are born of nothing.

Homosexuality isn't a birth defect, and you are a bigot for claiming that it is. There is no percievable difference between a homosexual and a heterosexual; no physical differences, no brainwave differences, no mental unstableness of psychoses....

Cycloptichorn

Brandon9000 wrote:

candidone1 wrote:

I have read your post Brandon.
Here is what you have stated:

Brandon9000 wrote:

In my opinion, homosexuality is a birth defect

Birth Defect=a defect that is present at birth. Can occur during fetal development or through the birthing process.

Brandon9000 wrote:

I do think it's purely physical and not learned

Purely physical and not learned=there is a genetic predisposition for homosexuality completely independent from any environmental influences or individual choices.

Brandon9000 wrote:

but there are undoubtedly people who can go either way.

Go either way?
If homosexuality is, strictly speaking, a birth defect, or something innate but not learned, then how might someone go about "going either way".
If homosexuality is, as you propose, a birth defect, then there is a predisposition toward homosexuality and their orientation is predetermined, not by environmental influences, rather, by genetics.
It's analogous to arguing that someone may, at birth or afterward, become either male or female.
Brandon, you are incorrect in your thesis. If homosexuality is a "birth defect", it is not unlike an individual's gender and it will not be altered by the environment.
When dealing with genetics, all maters of choice vanish.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Children growing up might simply be told that someday they would marry another person, rather than a person of the opposite sex.

Unless you are referring to a child being instructed while in the fetus as to what their sexual orientation is, you have contradicted yourself.

So, according to you, someone can't be born bisexual? Such a person might be capable of being influenced by his society.

That red herring was certainly never the issue germane to the discussion.
Besides, the mere suggestion that one could be talked into homosexuality by society is both
1. Completely contradictory to your central thesis that homosexuality is a genetic predisposition/birth defect.
2. Completely laughable. It's not like we're talking about eating worms.

Oh, gee. A society where we choose a partner out of love, after the manner of our choosing. What a radical concept. That's sure to destroy civilization.

You still don't comprehend correctly my incredibly simple statement that a bisexual, someone attracted to both men and women, could be influenced to choose one lifestyle or the other by his society. That this is true is laughably obvious. You say that this thesis is contradictory to my thesis that sexual orientation has a physical origin? Nonsense.

FreeDuck wrote:

I was just trying on some bigoted, over-generalizing rhetoric to see how it fits. It's a little snug around the ass, as usual.

snug in the ass.. isn't this kind of what this thread has been about?

For the life ofme I cannot figure out the quest to learn the "root cause" of homosexulaity.

It is there.
Accept it
Move on

I thought it went:

We're here
We're queer
Wanna get a beer?