2
   

Give Me One (JUST ONE) Reason.....

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 09:44 am
McG Wrote:
Quote:
Owing to the fact that marriage is largely considered a religious event in the United States it's silly to have the discussion on this topic without discussing the religious aspects.


This is untrue. Noone is asking for any religion to recognize gay marriage at all; just for the state to recognize the marriages. As religion has zero place in government, there is no point in including it in the conversation at all.

Brandon Wrote:
Quote:
Children growing up might simply be told that someday they would marry another person, rather than a person of the opposite sex. I don't want to live in that society, and, therefore, I oppose every step in that direction.


Why don't you want to live in that society? What would the deletorious effects upon your life be?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 09:46 am
<GRIN> What really surprises me, is that the only person on this thread who does not give a toss or gets offended (penis in sewer indeed) is gay....
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 09:48 am
Well, maybe that's because gays are indiscriminate, immoral, sex addicts who just screw around and never settle down.

Now are you offended? I can keep going if that's what it takes.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 09:48 am
the prince wrote:
<GRIN> What really surprises me, is that the only person on this thread who does not give a toss or gets offended (penis in sewer indeed) is gay....


and one straight bear....
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 10:11 am
A beefy Republican friend of mine -- who claims to be "super straight" -- argues that it's a choice. He's totally anti-gay and brags about how much he hates gays. During our conversation I tried to be diplomatic with him, seeing as he was 6'3 and over 300lbs, but a moral sense of righteousness dictated that I stand my ground and prove to him that he's wrong. Our conversation went something like this:

Me: Being gay is not a choice.

Him: Of course it's a choice!

Me: Look, when you were a teenager did you "decide" that women were going to make your dick hard and men were not or did it just sorta happen all by itself?

Him: I decided!!!

Me: Ok, you decided. In order for it to be a "choice" then you must get turned on by both men AND women! That means that YOU are gay my friend!

Him: I AM NOT GAY!!! (He pounds his fist on the desk and glares at me. Then he starts ranting and raving) WHO ARE YOU TO CALL ME GAY?? I'M A MARRIED MAN WITH TWO KIDS!!! I OUTA WHIP YOUR ASS HERE AN NOW!!!

I guess "ass-whipping" is a sure sign of "not being gay". His face turned flush with anger. At this point I ran for the door with him in pursuit. I was fast enough to escape him as staying in one place would have meant certain death. I haven't heard from him since.

No doubt about it. He's gay.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 10:12 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Well, maybe that's because gays are indiscriminate, immoral, sex addicts who just screw around and never settle down.

Now are you offended? I can keep going if that's what it takes.


your point? Laughing
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 10:28 am
I was just trying on some bigoted, over-generalizing rhetoric to see how it fits. It's a little snug around the ass, as usual.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 10:28 am
candidone1 wrote:
So, you're saying that it is a birth defect and a learned behavior?

I most certainly would not switch teams simply through the power of suggestion.
If you're stating that homosexuality is both biological and environmental, then I'd like to see some evidence backing that up.

Personally, I ascribe to the diathesis-stress model.

Which is not to indicate I believe homosexuality to be a disorder, even though that word is referenced.







IMO, fear of change is not a reasonable answer. Change is inevitable. Deal with it, or go become a Quaker. Let the rest of us get on with our evolving society.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 10:30 am
The Quakers actually DO allow gay marriage.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 10:31 am
GDI, Boomer! Stop destroying my pity utterances with heartless facts!

Doesn't what I said feel true?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 10:32 am
I meant Amish, anyhow.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 10:53 am
One reason?

ok. My good friends, L and K, love each other very much, are good parents and daughters, and deserve the right to be married as they wish. Marriage has meaning to them. They want to demonstrate to all in a public way that they are committed to each other.

Oh. We're in Canada, and they are. Cool



~~~~~~

pssssssst ... anyone else think dadpad's missing out on some good action?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 11:10 am
DrewDad wrote:
I meant Amish, anyhow.

Feel free to imagine crossed arms and a big pout....
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 11:49 am
candidone1 wrote:
So, you're saying that it is a birth defect and a learned behavior?

I most certainly would not switch teams simply through the power of suggestion.
If you're stating that homosexuality is both biological and environmental, then I'd like to see some evidence backing that up.

Re-read my post. I said physical and NOT learned.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 11:53 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon Wrote:
Quote:
Children growing up might simply be told that someday they would marry another person, rather than a person of the opposite sex. I don't want to live in that society, and, therefore, I oppose every step in that direction.


Why don't you want to live in that society? What would the deletorious effects upon your life be?

Cycloptichorn

Sometimes you just like or dislike things. I value some aspects of the culture we have. I can't tell you that it will decrease my salary or something like that.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 11:58 am
Sorry, I don't accept that. There are reasons for likes or dislikes; they are not spontaneous emotions that arise from nowhere.

What specifically about a society in which gays were allowed to marry would you dislike, or not want to live in? Or is it some latent homophobia speaking, which you can't write out loud? Just wondering.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 12:54 pm
I have read your post Brandon.
Here is what you have stated:

Brandon9000 wrote:
In my opinion, homosexuality is a birth defect


Birth Defect=a defect that is present at birth. Can occur during fetal development or through the birthing process.

Brandon9000 wrote:
I do think it's purely physical and not learned


Purely physical and not learned=there is a genetic predisposition for homosexuality completely independent from any environmental influences or individual choices.

Brandon9000 wrote:
but there are undoubtedly people who can go either way.


Go either way?
If homosexuality is, strictly speaking, a birth defect, or something innate but not learned, then how might someone go about "going either way".
If homosexuality is, as you propose, a birth defect, then there is a predisposition toward homosexuality and their orientation is predetermined, not by environmental influences, rather, by genetics.
It's analogous to arguing that someone may, at birth or afterward, become either male or female.
Brandon, you are incorrect in your thesis. If homosexuality is a "birth defect", it is not unlike an individual's gender and it will not be altered by the environment.
When dealing with genetics, all maters of choice vanish.

Brandon9000 wrote:
Children growing up might simply be told that someday they would marry another person, rather than a person of the opposite sex.


Unless you are referring to a child being instructed while in the fetus as to what their sexual orientation is, you have contradicted yourself.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 01:26 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
I was just trying on some bigoted, over-generalizing rhetoric to see how it fits. It's a little snug around the ass, as usual.


snug in the ass.. isn't this kind of what this thread has been about?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 01:28 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Sorry, I don't accept that. There are reasons for likes or dislikes; they are not spontaneous emotions that arise from nowhere.

What specifically about a society in which gays were allowed to marry would you dislike, or not want to live in? Or is it some latent homophobia speaking, which you can't write out loud? Just wondering.

Cycloptichorn

I have nothing whatever against people with birth defects, and I believe that people are all equal, but I need not consider birth defects normal. Your assertion that I cannot start from a system of values, but must justify it is incorrect. Values are a starting point, not something you deduce. I may have the values I have for a reason, but that's irrelevant. I like our culture the way it is, or, at least the part of it connected to gender. Your typical assumption that anyone who doesn't believe in government sponsorship of gay marriage must be a homophobe is the easy way out of this argument for you, but incorrect.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 01:29 pm
candidone1 wrote:
I have read your post Brandon.
Here is what you have stated:

Brandon9000 wrote:
In my opinion, homosexuality is a birth defect


Birth Defect=a defect that is present at birth. Can occur during fetal development or through the birthing process.

Brandon9000 wrote:
I do think it's purely physical and not learned


Purely physical and not learned=there is a genetic predisposition for homosexuality completely independent from any environmental influences or individual choices.

Brandon9000 wrote:
but there are undoubtedly people who can go either way.


Go either way?
If homosexuality is, strictly speaking, a birth defect, or something innate but not learned, then how might someone go about "going either way".
If homosexuality is, as you propose, a birth defect, then there is a predisposition toward homosexuality and their orientation is predetermined, not by environmental influences, rather, by genetics.
It's analogous to arguing that someone may, at birth or afterward, become either male or female.
Brandon, you are incorrect in your thesis. If homosexuality is a "birth defect", it is not unlike an individual's gender and it will not be altered by the environment.
When dealing with genetics, all maters of choice vanish.

Brandon9000 wrote:
Children growing up might simply be told that someday they would marry another person, rather than a person of the opposite sex.


Unless you are referring to a child being instructed while in the fetus as to what their sexual orientation is, you have contradicted yourself.

So, according to you, someone can't be born bisexual? Such a person might be capable of being influenced by his society.
0 Replies
 
 

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