How To Prevent This From Happening Again?

steissd

1.000 Euros/person/month in Denmark is about the minimum living wage.

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I just ... can't believe the opinions some people have.

<sighs>

If ANY country has anything to worry about a language taking over - you would think it would be Holland. A few years ago, "everyone" in Holland spoke English, and there were debates about changing the official language. Of course it didn't happen - people who are raised speaking Dutch think like Dutch people - it's part of their national identity. The second language of Holland is actually Flemish, and it presents no threat at all to Dutch.

I think people are too caught up in worrying about losing their identity and they can't see that ... yeah - I guess people have a natural attachment to the language of their country, or something. I mean, it's the basis for how they think. I don't think any language would ever replace English as the first language in the US - there's no reason to be paranoid about that.

or something.

(God, I wish I'd come into this thread earlier ... <g>)

stasia

stasia

Could it be that you meant >Frisian< instead of "Flemish"?

Sozobe, I am not an American, would you mind to decipher acronyms SSI and SSDI?
Mr. Hinteler, I cannot be very specific about Denmark, since I have no acquaintances there. But the man that immigrated to Gemany, considered his personal living standard while being on welfare as very decent (if his moral was lower, I think, he would not start working at all). I wonder how can taxpayers' money be spent on providing people that have not worked a day in Germany and have not paid a single pfennig into federal budget with so good living conditions? Of course, you may say that this is not my business, since I do not pay taxes in Germany, but I wonder, what do the "grassroot" Germans think about it?

SSI: Social Security Insurance
SSDI: Social Security Disability Insurance

Well, steissd, that's the law, guaranteed by our constitution ('basic law').
You know that you would get - if you came to Germany (as a German), a pension (from your time as Russian officer)?

The first couple of years past 1990, people from Russia got about 10,000 $ credit each(!) without interest, and a certain sum with less than 1%. (So everyone now owns a house or apartment.)

This has changed, however.

You can easily imagine, what "grassroot Germans" think about it.

<ahem>

<blush>

sometimes I'll say anything to make a point, walter. <winks>

something about flemish was what I meant. but I think I had the wrong country. heheheheh

That's a common misconception, NH, but it's actually Supplemental Security Income and Social Security Disability Income:

http://www.social-security-disability-claims.org/

You can get SSI if you meet certain criteria, which do not include having worked before; you can only get SSD if you have worked a certain amount already. Some people can get both at the same time.

Wow. I had some stuff worked out in my head, but it's been covered and then some... and then some more.

Walter - just re-checked. I *did* mean Frisian. Culture shock has left me confused sometimes. <smiles> (That's serious)

Flemish, if I am not mistaken, is spoken in part of Belgium?

yup. <nods>

so ... uh ... how do we prevent this from happening again? wasn't there some really horrific report of people from china who came into the port of los angeles on some cargo ship a couple years ago? I mean ... how DO you prevent people from doing this? I don't think you can.

I personally believe in open borders. I personally believe that, as a citizen of earth <ahem> - I should be able to live wherever I want. but I also believe there should definitely be some paperwork involved.

then again, some economies are helped along by "black" workers.

People were found in Seattle in shipping containers from China a couple of years ago. Probably was happening in LA, too. (Probably is still happening. Only a very small percentage of containers get inspected.)

Craven- I agree that people should be conversant with other languages and cultures. But you are right, I was not talking about Americans learning Spanish. That is fine. In fact, a few years ago I was involved in a great Spanish class..........didn't learn that much, but had a lot of fun, went to great Spanish restaurants with the class, and learned quite a bit about Cuban culture. (The teacher was from Cuba).

What I am saying is that for Spanish speaking people to get ahead in the US, they must know English!

Just a few notes:

1) My neighbor makes $6 a day working construction labor. He does it because that's five times what he can make at home in Mexico. So he sends half his income home to support wife and kids, whom he only sees about two months of the year. He's been doing it for 23 years, so I buy him una mas cerveza! And just listen.

Is he a heinous criminal because he doesn't fill out our forms? That's just life. Are we that anal? If anyone has never met a hard-working person, like this, I'm happy to forward your questions to him.

2) I think they're still predicting Spanish will be the majority language in California by 2010. English will be less than 50%. Get used to it, because complainers usually get left behind.

3) If 25% of a town or community is "illegal", I'd say the practice of law needs to catch up with the practice of life. Right or wrong, moral or not, like it or not, if that many people are doing it we have to accept it.

4) What do you think would happen if we deported all the invisible servants we depend on (ab)using? Have you ever dug a ditch? Is the law merely a tool to make us feel "just" and good? "Use them and then blame them" is the American tradition, no? The law is whatever we vote it to be.

5) Perhaps we should outlaw the implements of death: guns, drugs, and now semi-trailers. If we just threw more people in jail, none of this would be happening. Not much would be happening at all.

The law prevents it, huh?




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Oops, my high horse just tipped over. Damn horse, shoulda gone for the rabbit!

I agree, when in Rome and all. It's common sense.

But there is the flip side. I have seen lots of xenophobia about languages, languages divide people as much as does religion (a fact not lost of Hitler and his cronies).

I spoke Portuguese fluently but at times in Brazil I was confronted by strangers for speaking to my brother in English. They reacted with hostility. And one must remember that Brazil is VERY pro foreigner. Their xenophobia is very low. I used them as an example instead of a more relevant example (in the US, where IMO xenophobia is very high) because it's not politically charged.


So while I agree with you I feel that some of the "they should learn English" "you are in my country, speak my language" comments are rooted in xenophobia. It's a good idea for their own sake to learn English, but some people care inordinatey. It's a good idea for them to study and save money for a rainy day but you never hear people say "those darn immigrants should study and save money!".

Again, I'm not saying you speak out of xenophobia but that's a common complaint that is quite often, in my experience, a gripe about immigrants rather than simple advice about what is good for them.

Sorry for the rant, language wars are an issue I am very interested in.

Oh. My talking horse just said "Hey idiot, so how do you prevent it from happening?" Well...

1) Let the free market come up with the solution. Let everyone compete freely, and if you can keep up with my neighbor (you do heavy labor for $6 a day) then you can take over his job and put him out of business, fair and square. Then he'll stay in Mexico. Are you that good?

2) Or legalize the trade and help the people. So it will be better quality and safer than the stuff the black market comes up with.





PS -- I agree that people should learn English. It gets them ahead. But that's step 15 and my neighbor is only on step 4. I'm on step 137 so I have absolutely no right to complain! Rather, I should be reaching and helping more than I am.


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When being human is criminal, then only criminals will be human.

(Flemish and Dutch differ as much as British and American English. Besides in Belgium, Flemish is spoken in France as well.)