How To Prevent This From Happening Again?

Steissd- I live in an area near farm country. In fact, in the town right next door to us is predominantly Mexican. These are NOT lazy people, who are looking for welfare. In fact they work like dogs as migrant workers, picking in the fields. They do jobs that Americans will not do.
I spent one afternoon out in the sun picking strawberries. Nearly killed my back. This gave me a new respect for the migrant workers.

I am noticing something interesting in the years that I am living here. Little by little I am seeing the Mexican people pulling themselves out of poverty. I see then working in shops, in medical offices etc.

I have no problem with legal immigrants. I DO have a problem though with people who sneak through the borders, while their neighbors, who are obeying the law, have to wait to come in!

steissd,

I agree that "neo" and especially "neo-nazi" is overused. but I believe that Walter's quote is not the same case.

I have read many articles to that effect, it is a case of a policy drawing extreme supporters and being embarrased by it. The articles I read did not suggest that the new anti-immigration wave was neo-nazi, just that neo-nazis have been an embarassment to them because of how entusiastically some of them have embraced the notions.

CdK, I am an immigrant from the Second World country, and not the Third World. I was taught by both school and family that being a parasite is not only illegal, it is disgraceful. Not long ago I lost my job. I got a generous compensation, and I did not have serious financial problems while looking for the new one. But I was so much depressed with the very fact of being unemployed, that I even had certain suicidal thoughts (I can talk about this since this is in the past, I have started working since yesterday).
I want to tell you a story from my personal experience. In early '90s two major immigrants groups arrived in Israel: from the USSR and from one of the Third World countries (I shall not be specific for not to be accused in racism). The second group became clients of different affirmative action programs, and they got extremely generous allowances for almost unlimited time, while "Russians" got some very modest assistance during the first year after immigration. In 1992 I met near my home a construction contractor. He came to our neighborhood to recruit laborers for unqualified jobs. I was employed, so I rejected his proposals and advised him to visit a neighborhood where many representatives of the second group of immigrants used to live: majority of them did not work, and I even suspected Israeli employers in racism. The contractor replied: " I have already been there. Do you know what they said to me: "Let these stupid Whites from Russia work, we have enough money without working hard""...

Very very very relevant. The US has gone through cycles of immigration. Be it the southern Europeans who were once considered not white enough and too Catholic to the Irish, they all rise above the discrimination and sadly sometimes eventually become the ones discriminating against the new wave.

It's ironic that Irish, Italian and other once persecuted ethnicities who were once considered "undesireables" and once faced racial quotas that preferred north European "stock" are now sometimes doing the same toward the hispanic wave.

Waaaay back then you could hear the same concerns about national identity and such.

Phoenix, thanks to Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush, the welfare policies of the USA became more realistic and they do not encourage parasitism. In some European countries in '90s the living standards of the welfare recipients often exceeded these of the unqualified workers... I do not think that any serious incentive for working existed then.

steissd

Craven is correct about "neo-nazi".
Besides, I personally use this term exclusively for Neo-Nazis.

I've worked for more than one year as a "social co-ordinator" with Germans from different Russian states. (Others would call them immigrants. But due to German law - steissd knows this - they are Germans.)
People here are/have been talking about those "Russia-Germans" like you, steissd, talk about asylum seekers: parasytes.

I've tried hard to prove the opposite. Unfortunately, some (!) really showed such attitudes.
This, and the criminal actions of some, however, have been always top headlines in the papers. And thus strengthened the prejudices.

I know, but I think it's a very unfair perception that many have that third world citizens are any lazier. There is only a smidgen of factual fasis for this.



Congradulations, I have a shaky job in logistics right now so I was concerned. Good to hear!



This is very tricky. Thing is, I am in complete agreement that sometimes peoples are have differing work ethic. I do not think it is genetic but cultural and circumstantial.

There really are some peoples that you hardly ever see poor. Certain oriental countries are a good example in my experience I have rarely seen immigrants from certain countries fail in society, even when they are immigrating to thrird world countries like Brazil.

I don't consider recognition of that racism unless you use it to draw dangerous conclusions.

The conclusioons I draw are simply that the difference is circumstantial (culture is circumstance in this argument) and that those who do work will get the rewards.

Thing is, I've always found that the accusations about freeloaders were slightly, if not greatly, exaggerated. It's a very satisfying rant to heave contempt upon the lazy but I have seen more ranting that laziness in my life.



I'm sure that happens many times, but it's a small statistical sampling and I'd not base too mcuh in way of logical conclusions on it.

You will inevitably hear more about the despicable immigrants than the quiet honest ones. People have a chip on their shoulders about immigranst and hold them to higher standards. e.g. A foreigner raping one of a nation's own is much bigger news than when it's their own criminal.

Are not majority of Irishmen good Roman Catholics themselves?

Craven- What you said about these waves is very on target. I that there is a fear, expecially amongst the working classes, that the immigrants will eventually pull themselves up and compete with them for jobs.

I have always been AGAINST bilingual education. In earlier eras, people came from other contries, and assimilated into the US mainstream, usually within a generation or so. They did it by learning English, so that they could not only communicate with other Americans, but that they could rise economically beyond the most menial jobs. This had nothing to do with ethnic identity. Many of these immigrants spoke the mother tongue at home, and maintained their customs.

I have always felt that bilingual education was a means of maintaining an underclass, a group of people destined to hold the most menial of jobs. If people NEVER learn English, they will never have the wherewithal to rise above poverty. Other immigrant peoples have been thrown into mainstream America and succeeded. Why not Hispanics?

Sorry, I missed a comma.

The use of the preposition "to" is the type from this TO that. Not too catholic to the Irish.

Here is a clearer sentence:

...southern Europeans who were once considered not white enough and too Catholic, to the Irish...

Phoenix,

I'm very in favor of billingual education, but not for immigranst but rather for the natives.

I think languages can give huge insights into culture and different thinking. You can often tell much about human nature from the language said humans use to express themselves.

I know it's not what you mean, you are thinking the other way, but despite the reservations you raise (some of which I share) I am happy to see the US become more billingual. I believe language stimulates the brain.

Neither do I believe in existence of the inferior races. But the excessive favors toward people coming from the Third World seem to corrupt them.
We have many illegal workers from the African and Asian countries, and they work really hard. But they know that no one will pay them even a penny for being couch potatoes.

Soviet Germans avoiding working??? Hmm, it sounds weird. In the USSR such people were famous for diligence, purposefulness, coherence and high labor morals. It seems to me that excessively developed social security system may corrupt even a Volksdeutsch...

I simply haven't seen the favors you speak of.

CdK, I agree that the knowledge of different foreign languages adds to general intelligence of any person. But I have a reservation: I do not think that any language should replace English in the USA.

Not all, steissd, prejudices, similar to yours :wink:

In almost every country in which I have lived the natives worried about a foreign language and culture taking over. In all the countries other than the US it was US culture and in the US they are afraid of other languages.

I think it's simplistic xenophobia, I have never seen any indication that English is at risk of extinction or a decline in use.

It's globalization baby! Languages that one does not understand seem to irritate most humans, the mere presence of foreign languages in the US is enough for people to start feeling culturally threatened.

Edit: Wanna know something odd about language.

Nativo in Portuguese would simply mean those of that particular country. In English it sounds a bit condescending.

Indigenous in Portuguese would be a bit insulting and condescending to Indians while in English it's not.

mauvais ton in the cultural milieu we both belong to; but while looking for the article about new Danish policies I disclosed an amount the "asylum seekers" couple got monthly before the new law took effect: it exceeded $2,200. I have never got such a salary while working full time (average monthly salary in Israel is circa $1,550 ($18,600 a year), and this was more or less the amount I used to earn).

Steissd,

I guess we differ both in what we consider handouts as well as what statistical samplings we consider relevant (but only slightly in that last one).

steissd, my center in L.A. worked disproportionately with deaf and hard of hearing immigrants. Most of them were from Mexico, many from El Salvador and Nicaragua. A very few were from other countries entirely -- Vietnam, Russia. I'd say 85% Mexico, 10% El Salvador, 2% Nicaragua, 3% other .

These people were all receiving SSI and/or SSDI when I started working with them. Almost exclusively, they wanted to get OFF of what they called "welfare." They hated it. They were embarrassed. This was not what it meant to be American. They wanted to WORK.

They often had to take "paycuts" in the process, as they had to do things like pay for child care and start at low-paying jobs. But they did it.

These were not lazy people.