Why do you still support Bush?

McG, There are some things you will never understand; your last comment being a good case in point.

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Neither Frank nor Cicero are interested in discussing anything. They are here to tell the world what to them is obvious. They know they are right, so there is no reason for civilized discussion. I don't recall Frank having anything substantive to say in the last year. During that same period, Cicero has gone completely off the rails. All we see these days from him is invective and snide remarks about how stupid and evil the administration is. Not to agree with the dynamic duo, is to offer proof positive that we are either more stupid than snails, or more evil than Dr. Fu-Manchu.

Let them be. You can't hold any civil discourse with folks who restrict their pronouncements to insults and hate-filled diatribes against any difference from their point of view. Let'em stew in their own juices, they do their own cause more harm than anything you could conceivably come up with. If you can't ignore their one note bawling, then balance their poor manners with kindness, consideration and patience. After all, they are suffering and that's a shame.

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Perhaps you should follow some threads in some other categories, asherman, to get a different view ... :wink:

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Yes of course, for really serious and civil discussion, one needs to hook up with Gatos/Bernard, Finn d'abuzz or perhaps Mysteryman as well as McG. It is a well know fact that on this forum only the truely righwing fanatics are able to have civil discussions.

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Ashman, You of all people have the gall to talk about other's discussion on most politcal forums. You are the one that uses outlandish phrases to downplay all contributors offerings by posting your own .02c worth of meisms. Grow up!

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Asherman wrote:

Neither Frank nor Cicero are interested in discussing anything. They are here to tell the world what to them is obvious. They know they are right, so there is no reason for civilized discussion. I don't recall Frank having anything substantive to say in the last year. During that same period, Cicero has gone completely off the rails. All we see these days from him is invective and snide remarks about how stupid and evil the administration is. Not to agree with the dynamic duo, is to offer proof positive that we are either more stupid than snails, or more evil than Dr. Fu-Manchu.

Let them be. You can't hold any civil discourse with folks who restrict their pronouncements to insults and hate-filled diatribes against any difference from their point of view. Let'em stew in their own juices, they do their own cause more harm than anything you could conceivably come up with. If you can't ignore their one note bawling, then balance their poor manners with kindness, consideration and patience. After all, they are suffering and that's a shame.

You mean I am not a boring, phony, blowhard like you? You mean I am not as taken with myself as are you with yourself? You mean I do not post pompous, arrogant, pseudo-intellectual pap as you do???

"Let them be????"

Yeah...I'll just bet you will "let us be."

Go defend the moron, Ashserman.

He deserves people like you defending him.

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Quite true, Walter. I don't follow either Frank or Cicero's postings much of anywhere anymore. For a long time I had hopes that Cicero's apparent good sense would win out over his prejudices. Oh well.

I don't read everything; who has the time or inclination? Generally I drop in on Reference, History, Philosophy, Religion, Asia, and General Forums once or twice a day. I'm looking for postings from which I might learn something new to add to my storehouse of knowledge on some topics of continuing interest to me. The second think I look for is a call for help. People have questions they want answered and/or problems that might benefit from an outsiders comments. Generally I take those posts seriously, and try to provide some small help in passing.

The political forum is potentially one of the most important forums here, yet it is difficult to follow because there is so much rant and so little civiility. I may be deluding myself, but it seems that some of those posting to the political threads are beginning to curb their bile ... just a wee bit. Yes, I know that on occassion I've been less than fraternal myself.

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By the way...posting the moron's own words seems to bother you folks mightily.

Now why do you suppose that is so?????????

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Ashman wrote: "...my storehouse of knowledge ..." Give us a break! You think your knowledge is superior?

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There you have it. Frank and Ciceros response to a call for civility ...

Dys,

"Yes of course, for really serious and civil discussion, one needs to hook up with Gatos/Bernard, Finn d'abuzz or perhaps Mysteryman as well as McG. It is a well know fact that on this forum only the truely righwing fanatics are able to have civil discussions."

I can not deny that Bernard, Finn, MysteryMan, McG, and myself have also been guilty of demeaning, in our minds at least, those on the other political extremes. The rhetoric of the extremes is counterproductive. Instead of preaching to the choir, we should be appealing to the center where most Americans are. I'm a conservative Republican, and would like to see certain policies continued and others pursued more diligently. Some on the other hand hold diametrically opposed views. If the opponents of the political policies and philosophy I believe in want to shoot themselves in the foot, I'm probably too eager to help supply the bullet.

I am trying to lower the shrillness on both sides of the aisle, and to restore some small degree of civility. I've asked some of the conservative posters here to tone down their personal slams against the Left. In the end, we can only control ourselves, and so I'm trying hard not to responde in kind when folks like Frank, Cicero, MaginKat, F4F and others demonstrate the levels of hatred they are apparently capable of.

"It is a well know fact that on this forum only the truely righwing fanatics are able to have civil discussions." Let me rephrase that: On this forum, fanatics from the political extremes have destroyed civil discussions.

It seems your response is wry humor, I'm trying to get us all to ramp down the rhetoric.

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"You mean I am not a boring, phony, blowhard like you? You mean I am not as taken with myself as are you with yourself? You mean I do not post pompous, arrogant, pseudo-intellectual pap as you do??? "

I may be all those things, though I try not to be. My "boring" and "pompus" style almost certainly does need to be worked on. Am I egotistical, arrogant, and narcisistic? Some folks certainly seem to believe that, and it may be so. I've been working for decades to reign in my ego, to smash it and annhilate it. It still survives, and I don't know if any amount of discipline will put it into its tiny place. I'm proud of my academic accomplishments, after all they took hard work on my part for many years. Those accomplishments must have some value, for people have been seeking out my thoughts for a long time now. Of course, your own intellectual prowess may caste my modest learning into darkness. If so, it doesn't show.

"Give us a break! You think your knowledge is superior?"

I don't know that, Cicero. So far you haven't demonstrated very much knowledge, much less understanding of any political topic we've seen. Your knowledge of political and social history appears to have stopped sometime around the 7th grade. Rarely have I come in contact with a person who is as prejudiced as you have shown yourself to be.

For myself, I'm painfully aware of the limits of my knowledge and I'm truly sorry that I didn't pursue more seriously some subjects earlier in my life. I read a lot, and rarely does a day pass that there isn't an opportunity to learn somethng new, or to gain a new perspective on old knowledge. "Is not learning enjoyable?" I've found it so. Try it sometime.

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On the Fourth, Read the Declaration of Impeachment
By David Swanson
AfterDowningStreet.org

Sunday 02 July 2006

Veterans for Peace has drafted a Declaration of Impeachment using nothing but excerpts from the Declaration of Independence (plus a few words in parentheses). It reads as follows, and should be read at picnics and protests on the Fourth of July:

"... whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

... all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations ... design(s) to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

... The history of the present King (George)... is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny ... To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has ... deprive(ed) us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury ... transport(ed) us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us ...

He is at this time transporting large Armies ... to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens ... to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
A (President) whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

We, therefore ... do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People ... solemnly publish and declare, That these ... Free and Independent (People) ... are Absolved from all Allegiance to the (Bush Administration), and that all political connection between them and (this Administration), is and ought to be totally dissolved ... And for the support of this Declaration ... we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070206X.shtml

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Asherman wrote:

"You mean I am not a boring, phony, blowhard like you? You mean I am not as taken with myself as are you with yourself? You mean I do not post pompous, arrogant, pseudo-intellectual pap as you do??? "

I may be all those things...

You are!

Quote:

...though I try not to be.

Try harder. You are not succeeding.

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My "boring" and "pompus" style almost certainly does need to be worked on. Am I egotistical, arrogant, and narcisistic? Some folks certainly seem to believe that, and it may be so.

Okay.

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I've been working for decades to reign in my ego, to smash it and annhilate it.

If I may respectfully suggest you stop trying to do this...and instead work on getting a better grip on your value to the planet. When you do, you will realize your egotism, arrogance, and narcissism are inappropriate not because there is something wrong with ego, arrogance or narcissism, but because you are vastly over-rating yourself and your importance.

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It still survives, and I don't know if any amount of discipline will put it into its tiny place. I'm proud of my academic accomplishments, after all they took hard work on my part for many years. Those accomplishments must have some value, for people have been seeking out my thoughts for a long time now.

Most don't have to seek very hard. You offer long-winded, boring discourse on all sorts of stuff almost constantly. In fact, it might be argued that you are in love with your voice and opinion on matters.

Frankly, in the area of politics all I see is typical, not at all inventive, knee-jerk regurgitation of the conservative mindset.

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Of course, your own intellectual prowess may caste my modest learning into darkness. If so, it doesn't show.

Oh yeah, it does. But you may have trouble discerning it.

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"Nah, Bush is a fckg moron; no doubt about it. And those that support him are not far behind. Truth hurts." ... ?

"I don't read everything; who has the time or inclination? Generally I drop in on Reference, History, Philosophy, Religion, Asia, and General Forums once or twice a day. I'm looking for postings from which I might learn something new to add to my storehouse of knowledge on some topics of continuing interest to me. The second think I look for is a call for help. People have questions they want answered and/or problems that might benefit from an outsiders comments. Generally I take those posts seriously, and try to provide some small help in passing.

The political forum is potentially one of the most important forums here, yet it is difficult to follow because there is so much rant and so little civiility. I may be deluding myself, but it seems that some of those posting to the political threads are beginning to curb their bile ... just a wee bit. Yes, I know that on occassion I've been less than fraternal myself."

... ?

Here are two recent direct quotes from this thread. The quotes were more, or less random, but represent the sort of postings we typically see from the two authors.

Which of these two postings is more worth reading? Which provides the more interesting content?

One is by a boring blowhard on stuff that is a "knee-jerk regurgitation of a partisan mindset". Writings by this author are nothing more than pseudo-intellectual bit of masterbation typical of extremists of a certain ilk. The other is a thoughtful opinion arrived at by a reasonable intellectual whose credentials are beyond question.

One author transcends the need for formal English, and his opinions are so evident that to ask for the rational for them would be an insult, while the other is caught up in a pathological need to conform to authority.

One is a old man with some insights into the world, and the other is a barely literate fukn moron and idiot. One has a firm grasp of political realities and the other is a mere tool of partisan politics.

Which is which? How much of your opinion was colored by the politics of the two writers?

BTW Frank, I may bore some folks, but they do seem to read and appreciate my comments. On the other hand, why would anyone bother to read your endless repetitions of "Bush, that fukn moron in chief"?

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Asherman wrote:

Here are two recent direct quotes from this thread. The quotes were more, or less random, but represent the sort of postings we typically see from the two authors.

Which of these two postings is more worth reading? Which provides the more interesting content?

One is by a boring blowhard on stuff that is a "knee-jerk regurgitation of a partisan mindset". Writings by this author are nothing more than pseudo-intellectual bit of masterbation typical of extremists of a certain ilk. The other is a thoughtful opinion arrived at by a reasonable intellectual whose credentials are beyond question.

If you don't have the balls to direct a condemnation post to someone by name...you really ought not to direct those kinds of posts at all. Doing it the way you are doing it, Asherman, makes you look like a goddam pansy.

Quote:

One author transcends the need for formal English, and his opinions are so evident that to ask for the rational for them would be an insult, while the other is caught up in a pathological need to conform to authority.

One is a old man with some insights into the world, and the other is a barely literate fukn moron and idiot. One has a firm grasp of political realities and the other is a mere tool of partisan politics.

Which is which? How much of your opinion was colored by the politics of the two writers?

If you don't have the balls to direct a condemnation post to someone by name...you really ought not to direct those kinds of posts at all. Doing it the way you are doing it, Asherman, makes you look like a goddam fruit

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BTW Frank, I may bore some folks, but they do seem to read and appreciate my comments.

I'm definitely not one of them, Asher...but then again, I have a functioning brain. Maybe the "folks" who seem to be appreciating your comments don't.

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On the other hand, why would anyone bother to read your endless repetitions of "Bush, that fukn moron in chief"?

I don't know...but since you seem to be doing it...you really ought to be answering that question rather than asking it.

By the way...you are way out of your league here.

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We are certainly in different leagues. I'll go back to ignoring you, and you can go back to endlessly saying nasty things to and about people.

I guess that's just the pansy in me speaking. A pushover, not a real "He-man" like yourself.

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Asherman wrote:

We are certainly in different leagues. I'll go back to ignoring you, and you can go back to endlessly saying nasty things to and about people.

I guess that's just the pansy in me speaking. A pushover, not a real "He-man" like yourself.

Good observation. There may be hope for you yet.

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Ahsman calls himself a buddhist. If he's a buddhist, I'm a friggin christian. He knows very little of what buddhism is all about. If he claims to "practice" it, he's too far to the extreme right to understand buddhism. I've lived amongst buddhists all my life; he's no buddhist.

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I still support Bush because there is no one on the left whatsoever except maybe for Lieberman that I even TRUST let alone support.

I also support Bush because there are not really any republicans that shine enough as a person who fits the job. I think Jeb is still the only one who seems even capable.

America's selection for a next president is rather sparse.

It is not that I support him because there is nobody else but because no one really compares in my opinion.

I would vote for him again, he knows what is at stake and he is doing his best to protect us in a proactive way. What more could be expected of him. He is doing the best he can and that is acceptable to me.

Some people never give you credit no matter what you do.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Nah, Bush is a fckg moron; no doubt about it. And those that support him are not far behind. Truth hurts.

Yup.

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Why do you still support Bush?

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