Fight the U.N. Gun Ban

no need to point that thing at me :wink:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

1 ) If u think that people who are willing to violate
the law against homicide
will be convinced to obey the gun control laws,
u 'll have better luck waiting for the Tooth Fairy to arrive.

its too easy for people to get their hands on guns.
if you make it more difficult to purchase them, logic dictates that there will be fewer available for violent criminals to get their hands on.

Quote:

2 ) The " cost " is accepting government by USURPATION,
with as much rightful authority as a schoolyard bully,
and throwing away the limited government
granted to us by the Founders,
abandoning the personal freedom of American citizens.

i like to think we've evolved a bit in the past 230 years...

0 Replies

Region Philbis wrote:

no need to point that thing at me :wink:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
1 ) If u think that people who are willing to violate
the law against homicide
will be convinced to obey the gun control laws,
u 'll have better luck waiting for the Tooth Fairy to arrive.

its too easy for people to get their hands on guns.
if you make it more difficult to purchase them,
logic dictates that there will be fewer available for violent criminals to get their hands on.

Most respectfully, that is idle superstition, unrelated to the real world.
Logic does NOT dictate that. Have u ever ONCE heard of any criminal
say: " Aw, shucks, I wanted to rob a bank, but it was too difficult
to buy a gun ? " any more than folks said such a thing of getting bathtub gin in the 1920s, or of marijuana now ??
Thay get guns almost immediately after leaving jail or prison,
on the blackmarket. That 's what the law of supply n demand is all about.

Quote:
2 ) The " cost " is accepting government by USURPATION,
with as much rightful authority as a schoolyard bully,
and throwing away the limited government
granted to us by the Founders,
abandoning the personal freedom of American citizens.

i like to think we've evolved a bit in the past 230 years...

I like to think that our progeny
will live their lives in FREEDOM ( freedom = crippled government,
as per the design of the Founders ),
not deliver ourselves in helplessness into the hands
of unlimited government.

I do not choose to be an ancestor of the Borg.
David

0 Replies

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Region Philbis wrote:
no need to point that thing at me :wink:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
1 ) If u think that people who are willing to violate
the law against homicide
will be convinced to obey the gun control laws,
u 'll have better luck waiting for the Tooth Fairy to arrive.

its too easy for people to get their hands on guns.
if you make it more difficult to purchase them,
logic dictates that there will be fewer available for violent criminals to get their hands on.

Most respectfully, that is idle superstition, unrelated to the real world.
Logic does NOT dictate that. Have u ever ONCE heard of any criminal
say: " Aw, shucks, I wanted to rob a bank, but it was too difficult
to buy a gun ? " any more than folks said such a thing of getting bathtub gin in the 1920s, or of marijuana now ??
Thay get guns almost immediately after leaving jail or prison,
on the blackmarket. That 's what the law of supply n demand is all about.

It isn't just logic, it is factual evidence. The number of gun crimes in Australia has dropped since they made it much harder to get or own a gun. The same with England.

0 Replies

parados wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
Region Philbis wrote:
no need to point that thing at me :wink:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
1 ) If u think that people who are willing to violate
the law against homicide
will be convinced to obey the gun control laws,
u 'll have better luck waiting for the Tooth Fairy to arrive.

its too easy for people to get their hands on guns.
if you make it more difficult to purchase them,
logic dictates that there will be fewer available for violent criminals to get their hands on.

Most respectfully, that is idle superstition, unrelated to the real world.
Logic does NOT dictate that. Have u ever ONCE heard of any criminal
say: " Aw, shucks, I wanted to rob a bank, but it was too difficult
to buy a gun ? " any more than folks said such a thing of getting bathtub gin in the 1920s, or of marijuana now ??
Thay get guns almost immediately after leaving jail or prison,
on the blackmarket. That 's what the law of supply n demand is all about.

It isn't just logic, it is factual evidence. The number of gun crimes in Australia has dropped since they made it much harder to get or own a gun. The same with England.

I remember some retired English police asserting that they were
told to cook the books to make that appear to be the case,
after the gun prohibition;
e.g., if a burglary, robbery and 2 murders occurred
at the same time and place, write it up as one crime.

The English press was not in support of your opinion.

For the sake of argument:
even if u were correct,
that has no effect upon every citizen 's inalienable right
to defend his life or property from criminal depredations,
using the necessary defensive emergency equipment,
nor does it confer jurisdiction upon any government
that was denied to it by its Founders.
David

0 Replies

The BCS (British crime survey) reports that violent crime in 2005 was the lowest since 1981.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/violent-crime/

Hand gun crimes were off 16% from the previous year.
A 9% reduction in robberies using guns of any type.

Guns crimes make up 0.5% of crime in England and Wales.

I guess checkable facts show you to be wrong OSD.

Quote:

The BCS measures the amount of crime in England and Wales by asking people about crimes they have experienced in the last year. The BCS includes crimes which are not reported to the police, so it is an important alternative to police records. Victims do not report crime for various reasons. Without the BCS the government would have no information on these unreported crimes

The police can't cook the books in the BCS.

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parados wrote:

The BCS (British crime survey) reports that violent crime in 2005 was the lowest since 1981.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/violent-crime/

Hand gun crimes were off 16% from the previous year.
A 9% reduction in robberies using guns of any type.

Guns crimes make up 0.5% of crime in England and Wales.

I guess checkable facts show you to be wrong OSD.

Quote:
The BCS measures the amount of crime in England and Wales by asking people about crimes they have experienced in the last year. The BCS includes crimes which are not reported to the police, so it is an important alternative to police records. Victims do not report crime for various reasons. Without the BCS the government would have no information on these unreported crimes
The police can't cook the books in the BCS.

Apparently the issue is in controversy.
They were complaining of nite time " hot " burglaries
going thru the roof,
which makes sense,
if criminals know that, by operation of law,
their victims have been rendered helpless
so that violent crime is safer for the perpetrators.

I re-iterate:

The English press was not in support of your opinion.

For the sake of argument:
even if u were correct,
that has no effect upon every citizen 's inalienable right
to defend his life or property from criminal depredations,
using the necessary defensive emergency equipment,
nor does it confer jurisdiction upon any government
that was denied to it by its Founders.
David

0 Replies

OmSigDAVID wrote:

parados wrote:
The BCS (British crime survey) reports that violent crime in 2005 was the lowest since 1981.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/violent-crime/

Hand gun crimes were off 16% from the previous year.
A 9% reduction in robberies using guns of any type.

Guns crimes make up 0.5% of crime in England and Wales.

I guess checkable facts show you to be wrong OSD.

Quote:
The BCS measures the amount of crime in England and Wales by asking people about crimes they have experienced in the last year. The BCS includes crimes which are not reported to the police, so it is an important alternative to police records. Victims do not report crime for various reasons. Without the BCS the government would have no information on these unreported crimes
The police can't cook the books in the BCS.

Apparently the issue is in controversy.
They were complaining of nite time " hot " burglaries
going thru the roof,
which makes sense,
if criminals know that, by operation of law,
their victims have been rendered helpless
so that violent crime is safer for the perpetrators.

I re-iterate:

The English press was not in support of your opinion.

For the sake of argument:
even if u were correct,
that has no effect upon every citizen 's inalienable right
to defend his life or property from criminal depredations,
using the necessary defensive emergency equipment,
nor does it confer jurisdiction upon any government
that was denied to it by its Founders.
David

You have links to this English press? The only stories I can find are 3-4 years out of date.

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Man you are really reaching on this one, OSD.

By the way, thanks for your explanation about why your spelling is so atrocious explains a lot. But not in a good way.

One question- you hinted about allowing children to use guns. What is the cutoff age that you think is too young to allow a kid to carry around a firearm? I don't mean "lets go with daddy to the range and he'll help you shoot." I'm talking about "There's little Johnny, walking around with his 9mm."

Three? Four? Five?

0 Replies

parados wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
parados wrote:
The BCS (British crime survey) reports that violent crime in 2005 was the lowest since 1981.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/violent-crime/

Hand gun crimes were off 16% from the previous year.
A 9% reduction in robberies using guns of any type.

Guns crimes make up 0.5% of crime in England and Wales.

I guess checkable facts show you to be wrong OSD.

Quote:
The BCS measures the amount of crime in England and Wales by asking people about crimes they have experienced in the last year. The BCS includes crimes which are not reported to the police, so it is an important alternative to police records. Victims do not report crime for various reasons. Without the BCS the government would have no information on these unreported crimes
The police can't cook the books in the BCS.

Apparently the issue is in controversy.
They were complaining of nite time " hot " burglaries
going thru the roof,
which makes sense,
if criminals know that, by operation of law,
their victims have been rendered helpless
so that violent crime is safer for the perpetrators.

I re-iterate:

The English press was not in support of your opinion.

For the sake of argument:
even if u were correct,
that has no effect upon every citizen 's inalienable right
to defend his life or property from criminal depredations,
using the necessary defensive emergency equipment,
nor does it confer jurisdiction upon any government
that was denied to it by its Founders.
David

You have links to this English press? The only stories I can find are 3-4 years out of date.

1. Not new ones.

2. Whatever I may have is not conveniently at hand.
Incidentally, the same paradigm of increased crime
after prohibition of defensive guns also arrived from Austrailia;
like a mirror image.

I will be away this weekend n must prepare for departure.
I will not have time for research ( and little inclination ).
David

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How convenient! Be sure to return on Monday with more unsupported claims...

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OmSigDAVID wrote:

Apparently the issue is in controversy.
They were complaining of nite time " hot " burglaries
going thru the roof,
which makes sense,
if criminals know that, by operation of law,
their victims have been rendered helpless
so that violent crime is safer for the perpetrators.

I re-iterate:

The English press was not in support of your opinion.

Apparently, David, you didn't follow the English (British) press the last couple of month, especially not the conservative media.

Quote:

How many more must die? Thugs, many of whom may be linked to the drugs trade, show no mercy to those who get in their way. Surely it's time for police across Britain to mount a massive crackdown against all those who carry firearms.

Possession of a gun should lead to a mandatory prison sentence. Those who use these weapons must know that they will be sent to jail for life.

source: Daily Express, July 5, 2006, comment.

(Actually, I could post 54 similar reports/comments out of 16 British papers from the last 14 days - even in original

:wink: )

0 Replies

You mean the unsupported claims from Australia pushed by gun nuts?

The claims that were soundly debunked in this thread earlier. The only argument against the evidence of the reduced crime in Australia seemed to be we had to wait to see if 3 years of a lower crime rate was an anomaly.

The fact of the matter is that both England and Australia have a crime rate that has gone down

0 Replies

JustanObserver wrote:

Man you are really reaching on this one, OSD.

By the way, thanks for your explanation about why your spelling is so atrocious explains a lot. But not in a good way.

Can we agree to curtail
the ad hominem acrimony ?
I have no plans to use it against YOU;
waste of time; no good comes of it.

Quote:

One question- you hinted about allowing children to use guns.
What is the cutoff age that you think is too young to allow a kid to carry around a firearm? I don't mean "lets go with daddy to the range and he'll help you shoot." I'm talking about "There's little Johnny, walking around with his 9mm."

Three? Four? Five?

I do not believe that this is well-suited to an arbitrary
one-size-fits-all imposition of limitation;
( if the conduct of a person of ANY age proves him to be mentally unstable,
it may be wise for such a person to be isolated from polite society ).

It seems to me that it shud be judged by how a person ACTS
with dangerous equipment, and whether he accepts and applies
principles of safe use,
rather than how OLD he is,
presumably to be judged by his parents who will finance
his defensive equipment and presumably get him lessons
to ensure that he is qualified on each weapon.

In my own case, it was the age of 8,
as prior to then, I lived in NY and had no access to functional
firearms ( tho I lusted for them, in the privacy of my mind ).

Upon my arrival in Arizona at the age of 8 years and one week,
the situation was abruptly altered for me.
The kids in my neighborhood, both older n younger than I was,
were well provided with rifles, pistols n revolvers.
I soon acquired from them a 2 " .38 revolver
which I carried for protection, for some years,
until I upgraded to a .44 special revolver.
As it turned out, I never needed defense,
but I had a sense of peace of mind.

We liked gunnery practice.
None of us ever had any trouble.
David

0 Replies

parados wrote:

You mean the unsupported claims from Australia pushed by gun nuts?

The claims that were soundly debunked in this thread earlier. The only argument against the evidence of the reduced crime in Australia seemed to be we had to wait to see if 3 years of a lower crime rate was an anomaly.

The fact of the matter is that both England and Australia have a crime rate that has gone down

If it adds to the happiness of your life,
u can believe that, if u want to.
David

0 Replies

You "lusted" after guns at age 8? That explains a lot...

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
Apparently the issue is in controversy.
They were complaining of nite time " hot " burglaries
going thru the roof,
which makes sense,
if criminals know that, by operation of law,
their victims have been rendered helpless
so that violent crime is safer for the perpetrators.

I re-iterate:

The English press was not in support of your opinion.

Apparently, David, you didn't follow the English (British) press the last couple of month, especially not the conservative media.
True; I did not.

Quote:
How many more must die?
That does not sound like objective reporting, to me.
It sounds like campaigning to influence with propaganda.

Thugs, many of whom may be linked to the drugs trade, show no mercy to those who get in their way.
Surely it's time for police across Britain to mount a massive crackdown against all those who carry firearms.
How about ONLY prosecuting the violent criminal predators,
and leaving their innocent victims,
and their defensive weapons, in peace ??
Weapons carried as part of an enterprize of criminal depredation
are used in the service of evil,
whereas, guns used for self-defense, or defense of family or friends therefrom,
are employed for good, valuable and admirable purposes.
It is FOOLISHNESS, and terrible judgment to deem them
as being all the same.

Possession of a gun should lead to a mandatory prison sentence. Those who use these weapons must know that they will be sent to jail for life.

source: Daily Express, July 5, 2006, comment.

(Actually, I could post 54 similar reports/comments out of 16 British papers from the last 14 days - even in original

:wink: )

0 Replies

D'artagnan wrote:

You "lusted" after guns at age 8? That explains a lot...

Yes and for some years before.

What does it explain, D' art ?

David

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OmSigDAVID wrote:

I lived in NY and had no access to functional
firearms ( tho I lusted for them, in the privacy of my mind ).

Yeah... pretty much explains it all.

And I tease because you make absolutely absurd arguments. If I heard someone in the street talking the nonsense you do, I'd laugh in their face.

By the way, I though "there is no way this guy can be serious" when you were talking about how there should be no minimum age for kids to carry guns. But you were. Common sense alone should tell you that there should be a minimum age for children to carry firearms.

Yeah, they may know how to use guns, but children (by their very nature) are not mentally or emotionally mature enough to carry something like that around. Yeah yeah, I know your reply (something along the lines of how there are plenty of adults who are in the same boat), but come on, man. There are some adults who fit that category, but just about ALL children fill that category. Just because you can find a handful of incredibly mature/intelligent children that a person could trust with guns doesn't come close to justifying allowing all children to carry.

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Anyone who seems only to think about guns (and may have done so since childhood) can't be taken seriously.

There's more to life than that...

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Quote:

That does not sound like objective reporting, to me.

It's a comment - such has nothing to do in a report - and was thought to be a response to your: "The English press was not in support of your opinion." - which is untrue.

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Fight the U.N. Gun Ban

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