9
   

Fight the U.N. Gun Ban

 
 
parados
 
  2  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:55 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
There is no such thing as discriminatory licensure. The law doesn't discriminate. It sets standards that must be met without any discrimination based on race, color, creed, or sexual preference. Absurd argument on your part. It also fails to address the issue of gun control as it presently exists in the US.


I must disagree with this point.

I live in a "shall issue" state.
That means that I can get a CCW permit,by just asking for one and passing a background check.
Illinois is right next to Ky,and a private citizen there is NOT allowed to get a CCW permit,for any reason.

Some states are "may issue" states.
That means that they dont have to issue a CCW permit,but they can if they want to.
They can deny it for any or no reason,whatever they feel like.

Now,if there was no "discriminatory licensure",then every state would follow the same guidelines and have the same standards.

They dont.Some states discriminate by not allowing anyone to have a CCW,some states only allow a few people to have a CCW,and some states give them to anyone that qualifies for one,without discriminating.


Look up the word discriminate MM.. You can't discriminate if you prevent everyone from doing something. Nor can you discriminate if you require that everyone meet a standard that it is possible for anyone to achieve.

One city doesn't discriminate because it charges a higher or lower tax than the next city over. It isn't discrimination because everyone under the law in that locality has the same requirements.

Illinois isn't discriminating against Ill citizens. KY isn't discriminating against KY citizens. The law has a requirement. I bet you that Ill citizens can't get a CCW in KY but then Ill citizens can't get a driver's license in Ky either. That isn't discrimination. It sets standards that someone can meet by becoming a Ky citizen.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:58 pm
Parados,
You ignore the "may issue" states.
If you and I both apply for a CCW in one of those states,they can say no to you because they dont like the color shirt you are wearing,but they may give me one because they like my shirt.
They can pick and choose who gets a CCW permit,using whatever arbitrary reasons they want.

Are you actually trying to say that isnt discriminatory?

BTW,they dont have to tell you why they denied you a CCW permit,they can just say no.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 09:30 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
There is no such thing as discriminatory licensure. The law doesn't discriminate. It sets standards that must be met without any discrimination based on race, color, creed, or sexual preference. Absurd argument on your part. It also fails to address the issue of gun control as it presently exists in the US.



Some states are "may issue" states.
That means that they dont have to issue a CCW permit, but they can if they want to.
They can deny it for any or no reason,whatever they feel like
.

Those are states of fully discriminatory licensure,
wherein the licensing agent does whatever he damn pleases,
and the citizen has no statutory right
to defensive emergency equipment;
so its as if the right to defend your life from criminal depredation
depends on an arbitrary lottery.




Sometimes I get the feeling that
the minds of collectivist-authoritarians
( a/k/a " liberals " )
and libertarian-individualists are like oil and water,
tho I must admit that this is not true in every case.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 09:37 pm
nimh wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
It isn't hard to see the results of AIDS in undeveloped countries. I'm surprised at your silly response BS.

Hhmm...

Having sex without education and protection: pretty dangerous.
Using guns without education and protection: lethal.

Having sex with education and protection: safe enough to do anywhere.
Using guns with education and protection: would you do it in your house?

If u have built in a good quality and soundproofed gunnery range.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 09:41 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Parados,
You ignore the "may issue" states.
If you and I both apply for a CCW in one of those states,they can say no to you because they dont like the color shirt you are wearing,but they may give me one because they like my shirt.
They can pick and choose who gets a CCW permit,using whatever arbitrary reasons they want.

Are you actually trying to say that isnt discriminatory?

BTW,they dont have to tell you why they denied you a CCW permit,they can just say no.


Thank u, MM

U described the issue very well.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 10:03 pm
My vu of the future of freedom of self-defense
is quite optimistic. I predict that the USSC
will void control of guns, other than by their owners.
We might need one additional pro-originalist, conservative justice,
changing out one of the leftist 4.
I think that Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas
and sometimes Kennedy are on the side
of an honest, conservative pro-freedom reading of the Bill of Rights,
which is inconsistent with government interference
in the control of guns.


It seems to me that
the intellectual and jurisprudential MOMENTUM
is headed in the direction of FREEDOM,
both as to possession and use of emergency defensive equipment
( i.e., guns ) and profusion of the Castle Doctrine.

Gun control has a bleak and limited future.
Just watch and enjoy !
David
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:19 am
I think it's too late to take away guns from the good folks because the ones that would be left with the guns are the criminals, who would be tickled pink to know that the law just made their life of crime much easier.
I know that a lot of accidents happen with guns, but the cold facts are that there are a lot of evil mother f*ckers out there who wouldn't think twice about blowing your childs head off right in front of you, so on that note, I think people should have the right to protect their family.

I also think that anyone who is allowed to own a gun should be required to go through some type of safety training first. There are far too many accidents that happen with guns and if people are to be able to own this deadly weapon, someone better teach them a thing or two.

What scares me more than criminals having guns is stupid people with guns. My neighbor, who is in his 70's was out in our field a few weeks ago at 9:30 PM shooting at porccupines. I was just starting to go to sleep, since I was working 12-13 hr shifts, 6 days a week and this moron (moms cousin) is shooting animals on my property at 9:30 at night, knowing that I love animals and am not crazy about guns, but if I had a gun, I think I would have shot his ass! <kidding> <kind of>

Bottom line is people need to be trained.

I had an FID card when I lived in the states and I got it just so I could buy mace, but I could have bought a gun as well if I wanted. I had no training what so ever and just because I had a clean record, they hand me a license to buy a deadly weapon or several if it pleased me. This just doesn't make any sense at all to me.
I was very young and if I had decided to buy myself a nice gun, I can imagine several situations that could have turned deadly.
The father of my son was very abusive towards me both physically and emotionally for several years and I can picture situations where I would have killed him or if he got the gun first, he most certainly would have killed me.

The man is dead, but I'm sure glad it wasn't me who killed him and even happier that he didn't kill me!
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:38 am
Montana wrote:
I think it's too late to take away guns from the good folks because the ones that would be left with the guns are the criminals, who would be tickled pink to know that the law just made their life of crime much easier.
I know that a lot of accidents happen with guns, but the cold facts are that there are a lot of evil mother f*ckers out there who wouldn't think twice about blowing your childs head off right in front of you, so on that note, I think people should have the right to protect their family.

I also think that anyone who is allowed to own a gun should be required to go through some type of safety training first. There are far too many accidents that happen with guns and if people are to be able to own this deadly weapon, someone better teach them a thing or two.

What scares me more than criminals having guns is stupid people with guns. My neighbor, who is in his 70's was out in our field a few weeks ago at 9:30 PM shooting at porccupines. I was just starting to go to sleep, since I was working 12-13 hr shifts, 6 days a week and this moron (moms cousin) is shooting animals on my property at 9:30 at night, knowing that I love animals and am not crazy about guns, but if I had a gun, I think I would have shot his ass! <kidding> <kind of>

Bottom line is people need to be trained.

I had an FID card when I lived in the states and I got it just so I could buy mace, but I could have bought a gun as well if I wanted. I had no training what so ever and just because I had a clean record, they hand me a license to buy a deadly weapon or several if it pleased me. This just doesn't make any sense at all to me.
I was very young and if I had decided to buy myself a nice gun, I can imagine several situations that could have turned deadly.
The father of my son was very abusive towards me both physically and emotionally for several years and I can picture situations where I would have killed him or if he got the gun first, he most certainly would have killed me.

The man is dead, but I'm sure glad it wasn't me who killed him and even happier that he didn't kill me!

When I was in school,
we were informed that we 'd not graduate
unless we cud swim safely. In that same spirit,
students shud be taught safety in firearms use,
as early in life as possible.
David
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  2  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 04:07 am
OmSigDAVID wrote:
nimh wrote:
Having sex with education and protection: safe enough to do anywhere.
Using guns with education and protection: would you do it in your house?

If u have built in a good quality and soundproofed gunnery range.
David

Yep - and theres the difference. You dont need a "built in good quality and soundproofed sex range" in your house to safely practice it ... illustrating it's nowhere as dangerous Cool
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 06:10 am
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
I think it's too late to take away guns from the good folks because the ones that would be left with the guns are the criminals, who would be tickled pink to know that the law just made their life of crime much easier.
I know that a lot of accidents happen with guns, but the cold facts are that there are a lot of evil mother f*ckers out there who wouldn't think twice about blowing your childs head off right in front of you, so on that note, I think people should have the right to protect their family.

I also think that anyone who is allowed to own a gun should be required to go through some type of safety training first. There are far too many accidents that happen with guns and if people are to be able to own this deadly weapon, someone better teach them a thing or two.

What scares me more than criminals having guns is stupid people with guns. My neighbor, who is in his 70's was out in our field a few weeks ago at 9:30 PM shooting at porccupines. I was just starting to go to sleep, since I was working 12-13 hr shifts, 6 days a week and this moron (moms cousin) is shooting animals on my property at 9:30 at night, knowing that I love animals and am not crazy about guns, but if I had a gun, I think I would have shot his ass! <kidding> <kind of>

Bottom line is people need to be trained.

I had an FID card when I lived in the states and I got it just so I could buy mace, but I could have bought a gun as well if I wanted. I had no training what so ever and just because I had a clean record, they hand me a license to buy a deadly weapon or several if it pleased me. This just doesn't make any sense at all to me.
I was very young and if I had decided to buy myself a nice gun, I can imagine several situations that could have turned deadly.
The father of my son was very abusive towards me both physically and emotionally for several years and I can picture situations where I would have killed him or if he got the gun first, he most certainly would have killed me.

The man is dead, but I'm sure glad it wasn't me who killed him and even happier that he didn't kill me!

When I was in school,
we were informed that we 'd not graduate
unless we cud swim safely. In that same spirit,
students shud be taught safety in firearms use,
as early in life as possible.
David


No offense meant, but was spelling a requirement for graduation?

When you write "cud" instead of could, and "shud" instead of should it makes whatever you are saying (and I agree with what you are saying) completely ineffectual.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 06:37 am
mysteryman wrote:
Parados,
You ignore the "may issue" states.
If you and I both apply for a CCW in one of those states,they can say no to you because they dont like the color shirt you are wearing,but they may give me one because they like my shirt.
They can pick and choose who gets a CCW permit,using whatever arbitrary reasons they want.
Really? Which state has the law that allows them to choose based on shirt color? I believe every state has standards.
Quote:

Are you actually trying to say that isnt discriminatory?
I am saying that is an argument from ignorance. You use an example that doesn't exist in the real world as your basis.
Quote:

BTW,they dont have to tell you why they denied you a CCW permit,they can just say no.
They can say "no, you didn't meet the standards." To claim discrimination you have to show how you did meet the standards but were still denied.

Gee.. MM.. and some states have different drivers license requirements. My state requires me to pass a motorcycle course in order to get a motorcycle endorsement. Other states don't have that requirement. Is that discriminatory? It is under your argument.

My state has higher standards for graduation than Missouri does. Does that mean my state discriminates? It does under your argument.

California has stricter emmissions standards than OK. Does that mean OK or CA discriminates?

Under your argument MM, no state or local government can pass a law that is different from any other government without discrminating. That means that no laws can be passed because one state has to pass it before another state can.

When everyone under the law in a locality have to meet the same standard it is not discrimination.

If you really want to have carry a gun you are free to move so it is NOT discriminatory. You are not forced to live in one place.

Your argument fails on so many levels MM, I don't see how a thinking person could make it.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 06:41 am
McGentrix wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
When I was in school,
we were informed that we 'd not graduate
unless we cud swim safely. In that same spirit,
students shud be taught safety in firearms use,
as early in life as possible.
David


No offense meant, but was spelling a requirement for graduation?

When you write "cud" instead of could, and "shud" instead of should it makes whatever you are saying (and I agree with what you are saying) completely ineffectual.


Maybe OSD can't spell because he failed swimming. We don't want to discriminate based on which class actually teaches spelling.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 07:57 pm
nimh wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
nimh wrote:
Having sex with education and protection: safe enough to do anywhere.
Using guns with education and protection: would you do it in your house?

If u have built in a good quality and soundproofed gunnery range.
David

Yep - and theres the difference. You dont need a "built in good quality and soundproofed sex range" in your house to safely practice it ... illustrating it's nowhere as dangerous Cool

Years ago, one of my tenants ofen invited a girlfriend over.
It was usually the case that not long after her arrival,
female screams issued forth from that apartment.
It sounded like she was being tortured.

No one ever called the police, but I 'm not sure how safe it is
for young ladies to get too vocally enthusiastic.
David
0 Replies
 
JustanObserver
 
  1  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 08:03 pm
Montana wrote:
I also think that anyone who is allowed to own a gun should be required to go through some type of safety training first. There are far too many accidents that happen with guns and if people are to be able to own this deadly weapon, someone better teach them a thing or two.

What scares me more than criminals having guns is stupid people with guns...
Bottom line is people need to be trained.


Thank you for explaining so well how there is nothing wrong with RESPONSIBLE gun regulation.

Guns are particularly dangerous, and should be treated as such.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 08:29 pm
parados wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
When I was in school,
we were informed that we 'd not graduate
unless we cud swim safely. In that same spirit,
students shud be taught safety in firearms use,
as early in life as possible.
David


No offense meant, but was spelling a requirement for graduation?

When you write "cud" instead of could, and "shud" instead of should it makes whatever you are saying (and I agree with what you are saying) completely ineffectual.


Maybe OSD can't spell because he failed swimming. We don't want to discriminate based on which class actually teaches spelling.

For most of my life, I accepted and implimented conventional orthografy,
with few errors; my memory was fairly decent. Clearly, as an attorney,
it was necessary ( b4 I retired from the practice of law ) to observe
the norms in pleading practice and motion practice.

However, of recent years, I felt complicit in perpetuating
inefficiencies inherent in the traditional paradigm.
It occurred to me that I shud bear greater loyalty to sound reasoning
than to wasteful tradition; e.g., it is grossly offensive to logic and to
efficiency to teach defenseless children that " L s " shud be jammed
into wud, cud, or shud,
or that a " ph " shud be employed instead of an " F ".

It behooves us to fight against inefficiency and stupidity.
Centuries ago, when English was nearer to its
Germanic origins, there may have been a reason to add " ugh "
after tho; not now. That is obsolete.


I can be part of the problem by preserving the rong,
or I can try to clean it up.
I wish to demonstrate easier alternatives.
I liken it to carrying around 10 pounds of useless iron all the time,
because it is a tradition observed by our ancesters;
that deserves no respect.

When Teddy Roosevelt was President,
he endeavored to render English fully fonetic;
( most of it is already fonetic ). Tho he was very popular,
he too became the victim of ridicule.

I have no fear of ridicule.

I am also confident that logic, ease, and efficiency will prevail,
whether I help it along or not, but I don 't wish to be guilty
of tending to perpetuate the problem.

Obviously, one must choose his battles
and pick his audiences,
but I am cognizant that even if I fully convince
everyone on this forum that I am correct on matters
of substance, that of itself, will change nothing in the real world.

Insofar as freedom of self-defense
from violent depredations,
and of access to defensive emergency equipment is concerned,
I turn my attention to the USSC, in a spirit of optimism.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Thu 15 Jun, 2006 08:34 pm
If we are to have compulsory education
( as we have had for several decades ),
then I see no reason against mandating
that everyone submit to training in safe use of firearms.

In my vu, that is not " gun control ".
David
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Fri 16 Jun, 2006 01:15 am
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
I think it's too late to take away guns from the good folks because the ones that would be left with the guns are the criminals, who would be tickled pink to know that the law just made their life of crime much easier.
I know that a lot of accidents happen with guns, but the cold facts are that there are a lot of evil mother f*ckers out there who wouldn't think twice about blowing your childs head off right in front of you, so on that note, I think people should have the right to protect their family.

I also think that anyone who is allowed to own a gun should be required to go through some type of safety training first. There are far too many accidents that happen with guns and if people are to be able to own this deadly weapon, someone better teach them a thing or two.

What scares me more than criminals having guns is stupid people with guns. My neighbor, who is in his 70's was out in our field a few weeks ago at 9:30 PM shooting at porccupines. I was just starting to go to sleep, since I was working 12-13 hr shifts, 6 days a week and this moron (moms cousin) is shooting animals on my property at 9:30 at night, knowing that I love animals and am not crazy about guns, but if I had a gun, I think I would have shot his ass! <kidding> <kind of>

Bottom line is people need to be trained.

I had an FID card when I lived in the states and I got it just so I could buy mace, but I could have bought a gun as well if I wanted. I had no training what so ever and just because I had a clean record, they hand me a license to buy a deadly weapon or several if it pleased me. This just doesn't make any sense at all to me.
I was very young and if I had decided to buy myself a nice gun, I can imagine several situations that could have turned deadly.
The father of my son was very abusive towards me both physically and emotionally for several years and I can picture situations where I would have killed him or if he got the gun first, he most certainly would have killed me.

The man is dead, but I'm sure glad it wasn't me who killed him and even happier that he didn't kill me!

When I was in school,
we were informed that we 'd not graduate
unless we cud swim safely. In that same spirit,
students shud be taught safety in firearms use,
as early in life as possible.
David


I meant educating adults who can actually buy a gun and that doesn't belong in our schools.
There are enough things being taught in school that crosses the line and we don't need more.

No wonder kids these days are failing in important subjects, they're too busy being taught about sex and what not and I strongly think they better get back to what's important because from what I see, most of the teenagers today are out of control, so we don't need to be teaching them how to aim a freakin gun.....

Hello!
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Fri 16 Jun, 2006 01:35 am

homicides from gun shot wounds are up this year in the Bahstin area.

i'm all for gun-control legislation, no matter the cost...
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Fri 16 Jun, 2006 02:08 am
Region Philbis wrote:
homicides from gun shot wounds are up this year in the Bahstin area.

i'm all for gun-control legislation, no matter the cost...

1 ) If u think that people who are willing to violate
the law against homicide
will be convinced to obey the gun control laws,
u 'll have better luck waiting for the Tooth Fairy to arrive.

2 ) The " cost " is accepting government by USURPATION,
with as much rightful authority as a schoolyard bully,
and throwing away the limited government
granted to us by the Founders,
abandoning the personal freedom of American citizens.

David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Fri 16 Jun, 2006 02:21 am
Montana wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana wrote:
I think it's too late to take away guns from the good folks because the ones that would be left with the guns are the criminals, who would be tickled pink to know that the law just made their life of crime much easier.
I know that a lot of accidents happen with guns, but the cold facts are that there are a lot of evil mother f*ckers out there who wouldn't think twice about blowing your childs head off right in front of you, so on that note, I think people should have the right to protect their family.

I also think that anyone who is allowed to own a gun should be required to go through some type of safety training first. There are far too many accidents that happen with guns and if people are to be able to own this deadly weapon, someone better teach them a thing or two.

What scares me more than criminals having guns is stupid people with guns. My neighbor, who is in his 70's was out in our field a few weeks ago at 9:30 PM shooting at porccupines. I was just starting to go to sleep, since I was working 12-13 hr shifts, 6 days a week and this moron (moms cousin) is shooting animals on my property at 9:30 at night, knowing that I love animals and am not crazy about guns, but if I had a gun, I think I would have shot his ass! <kidding> <kind of>

Bottom line is people need to be trained.

I had an FID card when I lived in the states and I got it just so I could buy mace, but I could have bought a gun as well if I wanted. I had no training what so ever and just because I had a clean record, they hand me a license to buy a deadly weapon or several if it pleased me. This just doesn't make any sense at all to me.
I was very young and if I had decided to buy myself a nice gun, I can imagine several situations that could have turned deadly.
The father of my son was very abusive towards me both physically and emotionally for several years and I can picture situations where I would have killed him or if he got the gun first, he most certainly would have killed me.

The man is dead, but I'm sure glad it wasn't me who killed him and even happier that he didn't kill me!

When I was in school,
we were informed that we 'd not graduate
unless we cud swim safely. In that same spirit,
students shud be taught safety in firearms use,
as early in life as possible.
David


I meant educating adults who can actually buy a gun and that doesn't belong in our schools.
There are enough things being taught in school that crosses the line and we don't need more.

No wonder kids these days are failing in important subjects, they're too busy being taught about sex and what not and I strongly think they better get back to what's important because from what I see, most of the teenagers today are out of control,
so we don't need to be teaching them how to aim a freakin gun.....
Hello!

U think that if thay DON 'T get training in safe use of firearms,
then thay will NOT be aiming their guns ?? What will stop them ???
HELLO ??

Safety training will result in fewer accidents.

The kids in my neighborhood
used to MAKE their own guns,
( even tho we had an abundance of commercially manufactured guns )
because it was FUN, fast and ez to do. Of course, the quality of
homemade gunsmiths varied quite a lot.
David
0 Replies
 
 

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