President Bush: Is He a Liar?

blatham wrote:
Or there is the broader sort of deceitfulness of "we are not going to set a timetable for withdrawl like the cut and run dems" when:
1) that same day, Maliki asked Bush for exactly that
2) the majority of Americans want exactly that
3) the administration already has a timetable, which it begins to voice only days later, and which is established by the election calendar rather than other more ethical considerations

Republicans wouldn't know the meaning of hypocrisy if it slapped them in the face!

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blatham wrote:

Or there is the broader sort of deceitfulness of "we are not going to set a timetable for withdrawl like the cut and run dems" when:
1) that same day, Maliki asked Bush for exactly that
2) the majority of Americans want exactly that
3) the administration already has a timetable, which it begins to voice only days later, and which is established by the election calendar rather than other more ethical considerations

Except the Maliki plan doesn't specify an actual date ... and of course not everyone in the Iraqi Government agrees with his plan, even as modified. But in any case, the Administration's position has been to deny a specific withdrawal date (a la the "cut and run dems"), devise a conditions-driven roadmap for withdrawal, or leave as soon as the Iraqis believe they are able to handle their own security. This, of course, means the Iraqis can declare their own timetable for the withdrawal of coalition troops, and if the US withdraws pursuant to that declaration, it does not constitute the "cut and run" policy advocated by Pelosi/Murtha/Kerry, et al. (which was overwhelmingly rejected by the US Congress). But of course you knew that.

http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/9549/demcr8qj.jpg

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Bernard wrote:

Xingu--Were you aware that those soldiers who were accused of murder would be court-martialed?

You miss the point here. It doesn't matter if we court martial these soldiers. Their crime is being broadcasted throughout the Muslim world and Muslim conservatives will use it to preach hate against America. This will be a valuable recruiting tool for Muslim terrorist. That's why this stupid invasion was such a mistake, because things like this do happen, they can't be prevented and it leads to more killing.

Our invasion of Iraq provided a lot of support for international terrorist. That's what happens when you have stupid presidents who think they can solve the world's problems through the barrel of a gun.

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The MO by the administration is to deflect all negatives to the Democrats no matter what they have wrought to bring about this whole debacle. These people learned nothing from Vietnam because they were too arrogant. Iraq is not Vietnam.... it is far worse. Our standing in the world is far worse for all the lies, torture, and disregard for law. BLAME it on the Dems to cut and run. We know what they will do and say; Rove has written the book on this. Yes, the president and his cronies are liars. We know that. We need people to stand up and say, "Enough!" A great many of them are now thanks to a few brave souls.

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You may have a point, Xingu. The "murders" of the Iraqi people, if they are indeed found to be "murders" may indeed spread the hatred for the United States through more places in the Middle East.

However, the "fear" of spreading hatred cannot and must not impede necessary action.

l. Our procedures are according to law. To think that these kinds of things will not happen in a war zone when there are 130,000 soldiers is sheer lunacy/ One has only to review the History of World War II and the occupation history to know that. US soldiers have indeed murdered and raped civilians in Okinawa during the long occupation there.
I hope Xingu is not so foolish as to think thpse distressing but rare occurences would lead us to leave Okinawa.

2. If Xingu knows anything about the Second World War, he would know that the bombing of Dresden caused thousands of civilian casualties. Of course, this led to a raging hatred among Germans and some others everywhere. If Xingu thinks that would have lead us to quit the war effort in World War II, he is very much mistaken.

3. If Xingu thinks that the radical Fascist Muslims did not hate us before we invaded Iraq, he needs look only at the Cole incident, the Embassy Bombings and the first WTC bombing.

What Xingu does not know and needs to read up on, is that the fanatic radical Muslims believe in the return of the twelfth Imam. When he returns the world will then proceed towards the true religion-Islam. They believe that an Apocaplytic event will hasten this state of affairs.

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BernardR wrote:

l. Our procedures are according to law. To think that these kinds of things will not happen in a war zone when there are 130,000 soldiers is sheer lunacy/

Thus, by your logic, anyone who supports keeping our troops in Iraq also supports the invetable consequences such as looting, rape, and murder.

Choosing an action also chooses the consequences of that action.

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No, they do not support those actions. They court martial soldiers who are found to be in violation of Mililtary Codes. They did not support illegal actions in World War II. They did not support illegal actions in Vietnam and they are not supporting illegal actions in Iraq.

By your reasoning, Drew Dad, a police force which has some crooked police who are on the take support those illegal actions--even if they try and convict policemen who violate their oaths and become criminals.
HOW RIDICULOUS!!!!

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Quote:

You may have a point, Xingu. The "murders" of the Iraqi people, if they are indeed found to be "murders" may indeed spread the hatred for the United States through more places in the Middle East.

However, the "fear" of spreading hatred cannot and must not impede necessary action.

l. Our procedures are according to law. To think that these kinds of things will not happen in a war zone when there are 130,000 soldiers is sheer lunacy/ One has only to review the History of World War II and the occupation history to know that. US soldiers have indeed murdered and raped civilians in Okinawa during the long occupation there.
I hope Xingu is not so foolish as to think thpse distressing but rare occurences would lead us to leave Okinawa.

Quote:

8,000 Marines to leave Okinawa for Guam
Wednesday, May 31, 2006
Kana Inagaki
Associated Press
Tokyo - Some 8,000 U.S. Marines will leave Okinawa for Guam under what will be the largest realignment of U.S. troops based in Japan in 50 years, a senior Japanese official said Tuesday.
The sweeping change, approved by the Japanese Cabinet, will give Japan greater responsibility for security in Asia, Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said.
Japan and the United States agreed on the plan in April, saying it would streamline American forces in Japan and alleviate some of the complaints of people in Okinawa, a cramped southern island that is host to nearly half the 50,000 U.S. troops stationed in Japan.
The 8,000 U.S. Marines will relocate from Okinawa to the U.S. Pacific island territory of Guam - with Japan shouldering about 60 percent of the estimated $10.3 billion cost of the move.
About 15,500 U.S. troops will stay in Okinawa. Local governments and civic groups have objected to that, saying U.S. forces should be further reduced and bases returned to Japanese control.
People living near bases in Okinawa have long complained about crime, accidents and noise.
Abe said the Cabinet agreed to take measures to help Okinawa with safety and environmental concerns and to work closely with other communities that will be affected.
"We hope to implement . . . the U.S.-Japan realignment plan while seeking the cooperation and understanding of local communities and authorities in Okinawa and the Japanese public at large," Abe said.

I would say our misbehavior is leading to our troops leaving Okinawa.

Quote:

2. If Xingu knows anything about the Second World War, he would know that the bombing of Dresden caused thousands of civilian casualties. Of course, this led to a raging hatred among Germans and some others everywhere. If Xingu thinks that would have lead us to quit the war effort in World War II, he is very much mistaken.

Typical conservative, trying to compare WW II with Iraq. First of all our bombing led to anger only among Germans, who, by the way, were already fighting us.

Atrocities we commit in Iraq lead to new hatred among Muslims all over the world and not just Iraq. Can you see the difference?

Quote:

3. If Xingu thinks that the radical Fascist Muslims did not hate us before we invaded Iraq, he needs look only at the Cole incident, the Embassy Bombings and the first WTC bombing.

Of course Muslim extremist hated us before we invaded Iraq. Did I say they didn't?

Quote:

What Xingu does not know and needs to read up on, is that the fanatic radical Muslims believe in the return of the twelfth Imam. When he returns the world will then proceed towards the true religion-Islam. They believe that an Apocaplytic event will hasten this state of affairs.

Bernard, I did know that. That's why I thought it was so stupid for the Bush administration to try to con the American people into believing secular Saddam Hussein and religious fanatic Osama bin Ladin were allies and working together. Secular working with a religious fanatic? No. They did not trust nor like one another. Saddam knew that if Osama could he would have Saddam killed and try to impose a Teliban style government in Iraq. Remember Osama's objectives; to overthrow all Middle East governments and impose a Teliban style government. That included Iraq.

What our invasion of Iraq has done is to give credibility to Osama's message that we are crusaders who want to occupy Muslim land and take their oil. Our atrocities inflame them to a greater degree.

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xingu,
It appears to me that you seem to have your priorities wrong.

While I will be the first to agree that those US troops that have committed crimes must be punished,its this statement of yours that has me wondering...

Quote:

Our atrocities inflame them to a greater degree.

It could also be said that their atrocities inflame us to a greater degree.

Things like Munich,where much of the Israeli Olympic team was killed,attacks in airports where terrorists would spray automatic weapons fire into a crowd of UNARMED civilians,the murder of the crippled man on the Achille Lauro,the list goes on.

By saying that our atrocities are inflaming them while it may be true,seems to ignore the fact that their atrocities inflamed us.

Should we have just sat back and continued to take the atrocities committed against us,just to preserve the peace or should we hit them back with everything at our disposal?

You seem to be suggesting the former.

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Good point MM. What makes us angry also makes them angry. Hence, our invasion of Iraq and the senseless killings we partake in and allowed to happen through our incompetence creates new terrorist. These new terrorist want to kill Americans and anyone allied with us. We're right back to where I started, our actions make terrorist. How can you successfully fight terrorism if your actions do nothing but make new ones?

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Quote:

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xingu wrote:

Good point MM. What makes us angry also makes them angry. Hence, our invasion of Iraq and the senseless killings we partake in and allowed to happen through our incompetence creates new terrorist. These new terrorist want to kill Americans and anyone allied with us. We're right back to where I started, our actions make terrorist. How can you successfully fight terrorism if your actions do nothing but make new ones?

So then it could be said that their actions like the ones I listed in my previous post are what turned us into "terrorists",and that we are just doing to them like they did to us,right?

Personally,I think we should have used nukes on a country that we know sponsors Terrorists in the Middle East.
Then we tell the other countries that for every terror attack on us or our allies,one city will get nuked.

But since I dont get to make the decisions,then my opinion isnt relevant.

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Quote:

Personally,I think we should have used nukes on a country that we know sponsors Terrorists in the Middle East.
Then we tell the other countries that for every terror attack on us or our allies,one city will get nuked.

Oh ya, good thinking mm. They will all roll over in shock and awe of us. They will all come crawling on their knees to us begging forgiveness.

Funny, the silly dreams conservatives have.

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mm wrote:
Personally,I think we should have used nukes on a country that we know sponsors Terrorists in the Middle East.
Then we tell the other countries that for every terror attack on us or our allies,one city will get nuked.

This guy is as much a sociopath as Bush. They just don't "get it." All them christian soldiers going off to war.

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Has it ever occurred to anyone that some of the A2K right-wing wack jobs would just be better off being ignored? Some of these posts are so absurd they don't deserve a response.

This forum doesn't have an ignore function so it makes it more difficult and a couple posters here are so wacked that reading his or posts are rather entertaining. However, that doesn't excuse giving their bizarre views credence by responding.

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Roxxxanne wrote:

Has it ever occurred to anyone that some of the A2K right-wing wack jobs would just be better off being ignored? Some of these posts are so absurd they don't deserve a response.

This forum doesn't have an ignore function so it makes it more difficult and a couple posters here are so wacked that reading his or posts are rather entertaining. However, that doesn't excuse giving their bizarre views credence by responding.

This from the woman that was absolutely positive,who swore up and down,who was happily crowing about the Rove indictment.

Where is the indictment?
I'm surprised you can talk about honesty at all when you lied so badly about the Rove indictment.

When are you going to admit you were wrong about that?

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Roxxxanne wrote:

This forum doesn't have an ignore function so it makes it more difficult and a couple posters here are so wacked that reading his or posts are rather entertaining. However, that doesn't excuse giving their bizarre views credence by responding.

Anyone, anyone, Bueller?

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Mysterman wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roxxxanne wrote:
Has it ever occurred to anyone that some of the A2K right-wing wack jobs would just be better off being ignored? Some of these posts are so absurd they don't deserve a response.

This forum doesn't have an ignore function so it makes it more difficult and a couple posters here are so wacked that reading his or posts are rather entertaining. However, that doesn't excuse giving their bizarre views credence by responding.

This from the woman that was absolutely positive,who swore up and down,who was happily crowing about the Rove indictment.

Where is the indictment?
I'm surprised you can talk about honesty at all when you lied so badly about the Rove indictment.

When are you going to admit you were wrong about that?

***********************************************************

Maybe she has trouble reading, Mysteryman!!!

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Xingu wrote:

Atrocities we commit in Iraq lead to new hatred among Muslims all over the world and not just Iraq. Can you see the difference?

end of quote

Of course, Xingu has evidence that we have committed many more atrocities than the radical muslim fanatics. Xingu knows that we have not and that it is impossible in any war(pick one) to avoid socalled atrocities if and when the enemy wants to declare atrocities.

I hope Xingu is not so naive that he does not know that the Arab Press will not only report the rare atrocities but that they will invent atrocities.

I really do not cry for any man woman or child, innocent though they may be who are victims of war in Iraq. My compassion was destroyed when the fanatic Islamic Terrorists killed three thousand of my fellow citizens in the WTC.

New Hatred all over the world, says Xingu.

Certainly- New Hatred for the Fanatic Islamic Extremists in London, Madrid and Bali.

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Who cares if we piss of more Muslims?

Why is it no one is afraid to piss off more Americans? The stupid a$$ed liberals, that's why. They whine and bitch about everything and have made the US weak.

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President Bush: Is He a Liar?

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