President Bush: Is He a Liar?

Intrepid wrote:

Wow! An honest lawyer!

<It was so cold the other day that I actually saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets>

Watch it, buster.

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7268/181iy.gif

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Oh GOD! Again? After it's been shown adnauseum that Bush and his cohorts ignored all the warnings, and went ahead anyways?

Are you constitutionally incapable of sticking to the line of argument? You have presented as a lie his statement that this was the prediction of intelligence officials:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Here's what Bush said:

Bush's Claim

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

State of the Union Address - 1/28/2003

Reality:
Not True

Zero Chemical Weapons Found
Not a drop of any chemical weapons has been found anywhere in Iraq

All you have show is that the conclusion was untrue. Do you have the tiniest scrap of evidence that he was not being perfectly truthful when he reported what the intelligence officials had said? Either make your case or stop claiming this as a lie.

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Bush had warning that the aluminum tubes were not connected to nuke production. Also, he had warning that Iraq was not after yellow cake. Notwithstanding this, he and his minions claimed that the tubes and yellow cake were evidence of WMD.

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Advocate wrote:

Bush had warning that the aluminum tubes were not connected to nuke production. Also, he had warning that Iraq was not after yellow cake. Notwithstanding this, he and his minions claimed that the tubes and yellow cake were evidence of WMD.

This was only one small piece of the data he used to make his judgement.

Another piece of data that probably went into his decision was that Saddam Hussein had had WMD and development programs, had hidden them, lied about them, and obstructed inspectors. Now he was again claiming that the weapons had all been destroyed and the development programs terminated, yet, strangely, had no videos of their destruction, could not lead inpectors to the remains of the destroyed weapons, etc.

Usually decisions like this are made on the basis of a mountain of data, with some data contradicting other data.

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Brandon, Go back to where the US provided Saddam with WMDs. DUH!

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Advocate wrote:
Bush had warning that the aluminum tubes were not connected to nuke production. Also, he had warning that Iraq was not after yellow cake. Notwithstanding this, he and his minions claimed that the tubes and yellow cake were evidence of WMD.

This was only one small piece of the data he used to make his judgement.

Another piece of data that probably went into his decision was that Saddam Hussein had had WMD and development programs, had hidden them, lied about them, and obstructed inspectors. Now he was again claiming that the weapons had all been destroyed and the development programs terminated, yet, strangely, had no videos of their destruction, could not lead inpectors to the remains of the destroyed weapons, etc.

Usually decisions like this are made on the basis of a mountain of data, with some data contradicting other data.

Wow. Brandon. He was secretive--hiding things--lying--and obstructing investigations into his alleged unlawful conduct? It sounds like you're talking about BUSH. And yet, when it's pointed out to you that Bush is lying to our faces and committing illegal acts behind our backs and thwarting all the checks and balances that would otherwise hold him accountable----you can't see that Bush has done anything wrong.

Is BUSH a LIAR? He most certainly is. I have made that judgment based on a "mountain of data." Although you might try to contradict the evidence of Bush's lies with excuses for his many deceptions (e.g., the man is ignorant, incompetent, etc.) . . . I'm making the judgment that Bush is a liar in the usual way based on the mountain of data that says Bush is a liar.

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Brandon9000 is absolutely correct. Decisions are made according to many factors. Detractors seek to cherry pick certain issues and parse them out to prove Bush lied. The problem is Bush did not make decisions based on one factor. It is a collection of factors. Hussein was clearly demonstrated as an elusive, deceitful, target and finally the burden of proof about WMD came down to his problem, not ours. His program was found to be much further along in 1991 than we had thought, and I think that fact skewed the assessments made by the CIA and by the administration later. Hussein's fault not ours. It has even been speculated that Hussein did not know the true nature of his programs, that his own people were lying to him. So how should we be expected to know the true status. Conclusion, Hussein failed. Place blame where blame is due.

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Quote:

It is a collection of factors. Hussein was clearly demonstrated as an elusive, deceitful, target and finally the burden of proof about WMD came down to his problem, not ours

Well, hmm, the problem is, there isn't anything technically wrong with a nation having WMD. So it wasn't exactly his problem, was it, until we made it his problem?

In fact, you may recall that we supplied them with WMD in the eighties. And then we were shocked when they had them in the 90's, and wanted more? This doesn't make a lick of sense.

The blame is on us; we misjudged the intelligence, we started the war, we made the mistake. Saddam didn't make a mistake; he knew that we were going to war no matter what he said or did, and you know that, too.

Cycloptichorn

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People can't seem to get it through their heads that WE supplied Saddam with WMDs. To top it all off, other countries and the US has WMDs. People arguing for Bush have lost all their common sense and logic.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Saddam didn't make a mistake; he knew that we were going to war no matter what he said or did, and you know that, too.

Cycloptichorn

So Saddam is the good guy now. Bush is the scoundrel. After all of this debate, arguments, and counter arguments, is that what your argument is based on: we can all trust Saddam, not Bush.

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No, and once again, don't be dense.

Saddam was a bad guy, and Bush ain't so hot either.

You have a real bad habit of replacing someone's argument with what you want their argument to be, yaknow?

Cycloptichorn

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If some of us are getting the wrong impression, maybe its not us, maybe its what you are saying? We have two leaders of two countries. Hussein known and proven scoundrel, known to lie, known to have killed tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or more. Known to have conducted WMD programs and having sought to develop weapons and the capability to deliver them. Yet, Bush is the liar during his dealings with this character according to many here. Thats what it boils down to it seems. I find it fascinating in terms of the how some people think.

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Well we all have our little things that amaze us. I'm amazed at how in the hell someone so deeply in denial can have the temerity to question someone else's thought processes.

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I doubt Reagan/Bush woulda sold Saddam WMD if Saddam hadn't already proved his willingness to use them.

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okie wrote:

If some of us are getting the wrong impression, maybe its not us, maybe its what you are saying? We have two leaders of two countries. Hussein known and proven scoundrel, known to lie, known to have killed tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or more. Known to have conducted WMD programs and having sought to develop weapons and the capability to deliver them. Yet, Bush is the liar during his dealings with this character according to many here. Thats what it boils down to it seems. I find it fascinating in terms of the how some people think.

Except fot the alllegation of killing hundreds of thousands, everything okie said about Saddma applies to Bush. Give Bush as much time, I am sure he could kill hundreds of thousands too.

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Cyclo, I doubt very much you'll be able to get through to the "dense" people on this thread - or any thread. They can't seem to accept that Bush lied about many things that shows evidence of what he actually said and what the actual facts are.

They always want to bring up that Saddam is a bad man; as if there aren't any others in this world.

When they talk about Saddam killing thousands, they also miss the simple fact that Bush killed tens of thousands of innocent men, women, and children to rid Iraq of Saddam. The only problem with this final justification used is the simple fact that this was a fall-on justification after it was proven Saddam didn't have any WMDs.

They are "dense" for sure.

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It's because they have so much emotional involvement with Bush and the Conservative cause, they cannot admit that he was wrong; it would be akin to admitting that they were also wrong, and that they were lied to, and that they fell for it.

Quote:

Known to have conducted WMD programs and having sought to develop weapons and the capability to deliver them. Yet, Bush is the liar during his dealings with this character according to many here.

Um, we helped start their WMD programs in the eighties. We gave them chemical weapons and taught them how to use them. Do you deny this?

Cycloptichorn

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Bush's detractors cherry pick? When he cherry picked the intelligence that told the story he wanted told....

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Roxxxanne wrote:

okie wrote:
If some of us are getting the wrong impression, maybe its not us, maybe its what you are saying? We have two leaders of two countries. Hussein known and proven scoundrel, known to lie, known to have killed tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or more. Known to have conducted WMD programs and having sought to develop weapons and the capability to deliver them. Yet, Bush is the liar during his dealings with this character according to many here. Thats what it boils down to it seems. I find it fascinating in terms of the how some people think.

Except fot the alllegation of killing hundreds of thousands, everything okie said about Saddma applies to Bush. Give Bush as much time, I am sure he could kill hundreds of thousands too.

Bush has a high body count. Thousands of Americans dead; MANY MANY THOUSANDS of Iraqi dead . . . many, many, many thousands maimed and injured . . .

How many tortured? How many held at Gitmo or secret prisons scattered throughout the world?

Saddam was bad; Bush is bad.

Why does the world look at us with scorn?

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President Bush: Is He a Liar?

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