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President Bush: Is He a Liar?

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 07:25 am
Or draw inferences from their behavior. I draw the inference, from his repeated refusal to address the "16 words" issue, that Mr. Bernard is a punk....
0 Replies
 
Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 08:44 am
Re: President Bush: Is He a Liar?
Brandon9000 wrote:
The President has often been accused of lying by his political opponents. I am starting this thread so that his opponents can try to demonstrate that the accusation is true, and his supporters can try to show that it's false.

What I ask is that anyone who wishes to show that he does lie state in each post:

1. A single quotation of the President's which is a lie
2. A bit of evidence, or an argument to demonstrate that it's a lie.

I request, though, that no one simply post a huge list of vague accusations of lying without evidence, or a link to such. Use your own words, not someone else's, and please limit yourself to one lie per post, so that the matter can be discussed in an orderly way.



Does a bear schitt in the woods?
0 Replies
 
Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 08:47 am
okie wrote:
Magginkat wrote:

Bush ran for president promising to restore the country after what was widely seen as the Clinton debacle. .........


Your post started out fairly accurate, as shown in the above, but obviously went south after that.


Went South to the absolute truth!
0 Replies
 
Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 08:50 am
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Magginkat/BabyFear.jpg
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 08:56 am
I'm going to go out on a limb and draw the inference from Magginkat's posts that she didn't vote for Bush.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 09:11 am
It's interesting to see who is capable of calm, objective, dignified debate and who is not.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 09:13 am
okie wrote:
BernardR, I agree with you, and in regard to WMD in Iraq, this has to be one of the weirdest and strangest, and I think one of the worst and most underhanded political tricks by an opposing party, in conjunction with a willing press, to turn public opinion against a president for their own political advantage - that I have ever observed in my lifetime. There are a number of things going on that only history will possibly, I say possibly, find out. I am talking about the undercurrents in the CIA and other agencies in conjunction with the politicians in terms of how this is all playing out.

And two things here. The Democrats have selective amnesia about what they have said, believed, and supported, and continue to try to isolate Bush out on a limb and to saw the limb off. Perhaps this is simply symptomatic of a generation that does not wish to take personal responsibility for anything, kind of like the lady that sued McDonalds for serving hot coffee. And the question of WMD in Iraq is still an open question in my opinion as to whether they existed or not, but even assuming they did not exist, we know the programs did exist or had been active, and Hussein had no intention of abandoning them for good, yet we are expected to think that all of this is now written in stone that Hussein had no WMD, had totally abandoned his programs, and was no threat whatsoever.
Whats so weird and strange about a whole country realizing they were deliberately deceived by Bush and his administration. You are among the very few in denial in the face of mountains of evidence proving deliberate deception. You will not allow yourself to see the truth. Thats why it is the strangest weirdest thing you have ever seen. You can not bring yourself to to admit it is true that Bush lied to drag the American people Democrat and Republican into war.

--------

The Washington Post reported last month that a U.S. fact-finding mission confidentially advised Washington on May 27, 2003, that two truck trailers found in Iraq were not mobile units for manufacturing bioweapons, as had been suspected.

Two days later, President Bush still asserted the trailers were bioweapons labs, and other administration officials repeated that line for months afterward.

Barton's memoir says that well into 2004, pressure from Washington kept the U.S. public uninformed about the true nature of these alleged WMD systems.

Former senior CIA officials denied such information was stifled.

The debunking of the "mobile biolabs" claim began in classified reports long before the U.S. invasion, when German intelligence in 2001 and 2002 told U.S. officials that the story's source, an Iraqi defector code-named "Curveball," was unreliable, official investigations later found. U.N. inspectors determined in early 2003, before the war, that parts of Curveball's story were false.

This story quickly fell apart behind the scenes, it has since emerged. Testing the equipment in early May 2003, U.S. experts found no traces of biological agents, and later that month the U.S. fact-finders filed their negative report from Baghdad.

But on May 29, Bush assured Polish television: "We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories." Then national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of State Colin Powell later made similar statements. As late as January 2004, Vice President Dick Cheney called the trailers "conclusive evidence" of Iraqi WMD, one of the reasons given for invading Iraq.

The experts' findings were classified, never to be released, The Washington Post reported last month.

Returning to Baghdad in late 2003 to join the CIA-commissioned Iraq Survey Group in a senior role, Barton found that specialists had dismissed the "biotrailer" suspicions. Strong evidence showed the units were instead designed to make hydrogen for weather balloons, as Iraqis claimed.

(I cut article in pieces to emphasize highlights)

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2006/05/13/ap2743802.html

At one point, former U.N. arms inspector Rod Barton says, a CIA officer told him it was "politically not possible" to report that the White House claims were untrue. In the end, Barton says, he felt "complicit in deceit."
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 09:15 am
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
and, even if some are true, does not prove that Bush did not believe whatever misinformation he may have believed at the time.

If repeating something you bleieve to be true, but later turns out to be incorrect, or ....


The beautiful thing about this redefinition of "lying" is that you could never, ever, show that somebody is lying. You'd have to prove that somebody did not believe in this or that. In other words, prove what was going on in his head. Unlikely to ever achieve that.

For example, Bill Clinton might very well have honestly believed that a blowjob is not a sexual relationship. Nobody can prove anything else. Therefore, he didn't lie.

Nice.

It's the original definition, not a redefinition.

Do you believe that saying something you absolutely believe to be true, but later proves to be false is a lie? If several of my friends and I agree to meet for lunch, and one asks me, "Is Jim coming? He said he'd be here," I may answer "Yes, he's coming," because that is what Jim told me. If something has come up which will prevent him from attending, that hardly qualifies me as a liar.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 09:28 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
and, even if some are true, does not prove that Bush did not believe whatever misinformation he may have believed at the time.

If repeating something you bleieve to be true, but later turns out to be incorrect, or ....


The beautiful thing about this redefinition of "lying" is that you could never, ever, show that somebody is lying. You'd have to prove that somebody did not believe in this or that. In other words, prove what was going on in his head. Unlikely to ever achieve that.

For example, Bill Clinton might very well have honestly believed that a blowjob is not a sexual relationship. Nobody can prove anything else. Therefore, he didn't lie.

Nice.

It's the original definition, not a redefinition.

Do you believe that saying something you absolutely believe to be true, but later proves to be false is a lie? If several of my friends and I agree to meet for lunch, and one asks me, "Is Jim coming? He said he'd be here," I may answer "Yes, he's coming," because that is what Jim told me. If something has come up which will prevent him from attending, that hardly qualifies me as a liar.


Just so I'm clear on your stance, here...

You're saying you still haven't seen anything that would make you believe that bush Knew better than what he shared as the facts prior to invading Iraq? You're saying you haven't seen evidence that Bush knew that some of what he was saying was not supported by facts? You're saying that you believe he thought everything he sold us was true as far as he knew?

I just want to make sure I'm hearing you right....
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 02:45 pm
Brandon? Anybody know when he'll be back?
0 Replies
 
Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 06:24 pm
isn't an exercise in Orwellian doublespeak after all. It's just a bald-faced lie...............................


You'll recall that when it was revealed last year that the NSA was
eavesdropping on phone calls and reading e-mails without first going to
court for a warrant, the president said his "terrorist surveillance
program'' targeted international communications in which at least one
party was overseas, and then only when at least one party was suspected
of some terrorist involvement. Therefore, no one but terrorists had
anything to worry about.

((ADDED: "Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so"
-George W. Bush, April 20, 2004 - LIE - BALD FACED LIE!))
0 Replies
 
Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 06:28 pm
snood wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and draw the inference from Magginkat's posts that she didn't vote for Bush.



LMAO Snood! How did you guess?

I've done some dumb things in my lifetime.....Voting for bu$h is not one of them!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Magginkat/ABushWashingtonHistory.jpg
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 07:49 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
But, grandma would have expected some integrity if what was totally believed was proven wrong. Especially when it affected the lives of so many. C'mon Brandon, get a life.

In what way does integrity answer the picture. If I say something that I totally believe and am later proven wrong, I am simply not a liar. As for Iraq, Bush was correct that they might well have had WMD, since they had at one time had them and lied about them.


Oh, so Iraq lied but Bush never did. Did you mean to say why does integrity enter the picture or did you mean what you wrote that why does integrity answer the picture. Actually, I think you are missing not only the big picture but the thumbnail as well.

Answering a lie with a lie does not a truth make.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 08:04 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
Just because somebody is a stumbling buffoon does not mean that people hate him. They just don't understand him because he does not make any sense.


Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
When you read the comments about President Bush here on A2K, it is quite obvious that there are some who so loathe and despise the man that he could end world hunger, achieve world peace, and cure the common cold and he would still be reviled as the scourge of the earth. This is why so many even on this thread are totally unable to consider Brandon's question reasonably, but twist and distort the question so as to continue to verbally attack the President.


Some perhaps. As for me, I go strictly on facts and those things that I can see. If this buffoon could, in fact, end world hunger I would consider him to be a great man. I will not even consider the achieving world peace part since his is a big part of the lack of peace in the world. I don't see any twisting and distorting or attacking.

It is quite interesting that our (yours and mine) views on abortion are so closely aligned but this subject is so far apart. That is part of what makes this world so great.

Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
Valid criticism of the President is of course fair game. I've certainly expressed enough of it myself. But to distort the facts for purposes of the politics of personal destruction is more destructive to us all than should be satisfying to those full of hate.


Would you please provide factual evidence of said distortions?

Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
I think Bush, as inept and as incompetent as he can be, to be a hundred times the man that Bill Clinton was/is, but I will defend Clinton when I think he is accused wrongly or falsely, and I won't accuse him myself when there is no clear evidence that he was wrong. I certainly won't accuse him of lying when there is no evidence that he didn't believe what he was saying (no matter how much I personally believed him to be lying.)


I can't believe that you accept GWB as being inept and still follow him blindly. Who cares what kind of man he is compared to Clinton. I won't bother bringing several known facts into this as it becomes off topic.
God help America.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 08:08 pm
Here is David Kay's report concerning findings in Iraq about 7 months after we entered the country and deposed the Hussein regime. He talks about the weapons programs and the evidence of the programs found, the evasive techniques of the regime, the many Iraqis that had been involved in the programs, and how the fate of the actual possible weapons had not been determined, but that moving them out of the country was a possibility. We still do not know the complete story. What we have is now the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and a monstrous effort to rewrite history by the Democrats. Bush's opponents are cherrypicking the naysayers and alternative opinions from shortly before the war that were swirling around certain points of intelligence, which may seem to be more credible now, I say "seem" because in the absence of proof, the naysayers are now preaching that they were 100% correct, but in no way was there a preponderance of knowledge on the subject leading up to the war that would confirm any intentional lies by George Bush. He made a judgement based on the intelligence given him. Not all intelligence corellated with a certain conclusion, and the administration made decisions based on their judgement of the preponderance of information available at the time.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html

Some of you libs need to read something other than your own friends propaganda day after day and begin to think for yourself again.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 11:26 pm
Okie:

Hans Blix had the inspectors on the ground, with unfettered access, to look for WMD's.

Hans Blix pleaded with Bush to let him know where the sites were-Bush Administration officials had publicly said they know where the sites were-so that he could go there and uncover the WMD's.

Yet you Bush supporters still put forth this mantra that all Bush had to rely on was reports from his own people.

No sir. Bush had the inspectors. And while Saddam had interfered with the inspectors previous rounds, in this round of inspections he gave them total unfettered access to search anywhere, even private houses and property. If they wanted to intgerview someone, they could take him out of the country and interview him.

Yet Okie and Brandon still act like Bush had only his advisors to rely on for info. He did not. Bush had the inspectors. What did Bush do when the inspectors started casting doubt over the idea there might be WMD's in Iraq? He oredered them out of the country and invaded!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 11:29 pm
Quote:
What we have is now the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and a monstrous effort to rewrite history by the Democrats.


Whereas the Republicans tried to re-write the present before the war. And they were succesful, for a while.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 11:48 pm
As Wiz says, the inspectors were there. They were working. They weren't finding what Bush wanted them to find (because it wasn't there), so he got impatient, said it wasn't working, ordered them out, and invaded.

3000 Americans were killed at the World Trade Center. Bush has now managed to get almost that many more Americans killed and 10 times that many Iraqis because he's a rash impatient cowboy, who'd rather take "decisive" action, any action no matter how dumb, go in with guns a-blazin', rather than wait to develop any actual evidence (of which there was none).
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2006 12:36 am
I would be interested in seeing how the Bush apologists reconcile "The president's claim, in his brief statement on the report, that the government isn't "trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans'' ' (from Magginkat's cite), with the fact that the NSA by collecting all our phone numbers and correlating them with who we call IS "trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans".
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2006 03:50 am
snood wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
old europe wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
and, even if some are true, does not prove that Bush did not believe whatever misinformation he may have believed at the time.

If repeating something you bleieve to be true, but later turns out to be incorrect, or ....


The beautiful thing about this redefinition of "lying" is that you could never, ever, show that somebody is lying. You'd have to prove that somebody did not believe in this or that. In other words, prove what was going on in his head. Unlikely to ever achieve that.

For example, Bill Clinton might very well have honestly believed that a blowjob is not a sexual relationship. Nobody can prove anything else. Therefore, he didn't lie.

Nice.

It's the original definition, not a redefinition.

Do you believe that saying something you absolutely believe to be true, but later proves to be false is a lie? If several of my friends and I agree to meet for lunch, and one asks me, "Is Jim coming? He said he'd be here," I may answer "Yes, he's coming," because that is what Jim told me. If something has come up which will prevent him from attending, that hardly qualifies me as a liar.


Just so I'm clear on your stance, here...

You're saying you still haven't seen anything that would make you believe that bush Knew better than what he shared as the facts prior to invading Iraq? You're saying you haven't seen evidence that Bush knew that some of what he was saying was not supported by facts? You're saying that you believe he thought everything he sold us was true as far as he knew?

I just want to make sure I'm hearing you right....

You're not. In this post, i'm saying that to lie requires intent to deceive.

However, since you bring it up, I do believe that in the year prior to the invasion, the president and many other people absolutely believed that there was a significant likelihood that Saddam Hussein was still concealing WMD and WMD programs.
0 Replies
 
 

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