Immigration and Racism in Britain and USA

Quite a few closed minds on display. It's that kind of subject.

Personally I have a problem with the mentality which believes that it's okay for Britons to go and colonise the world, by the sword if necessary, and preach christianity in "heathen" lands, but it's not okay for foreigners to come to Britain.

Of course there is a problem with militant islam. That was stated in the first post. The question is, how do we deal with it.

Economists will tell you that immigration is vital for the prosperity of the nation. Managing it seems to be the hard part. Historically, there is no benchmark "status quo" and there never was a golden age of Englishness. It has always changed. Since the industrial revolution and in modern times however, the pressures and the influx have accelerated. That seems to me to be the main problem.

I don't recognise me in this description, but I suppose pomposity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

I considered that others, who might have had more time than me yesterday, were doing a good job in discussing the various statements you raised. I would prefer not to discuss rabid racism with the source of it, but merely protest.

I made a point which recieved no answer myself, which I will re-state. How can you, a self-describing "Englishman in Australia", criticise a Pakistani for being in England?
The English have exported their culture and religions to Australia and elsewhere. Nobody else can do this?

Surely, it's a matter of degree, and balance, and management, and education, and tolerance.....no, not tolerance, that word has patronising connotations. Mutual respect.

My lips are sealed.

A cash-donation into my visa account via PayPal just might coax an extra post or two out of me, but otherwise...

Ah! Thank you McTag. The receipt is in the mail.



That is about as silly a statement as I have heard in a long while. That really is scraping the barrel to dredge up some kind of rationalisation, no matter how tenuous and absurd - to justify your capitulation to those who find it good business to saturate your national homeland with a few million Third World ethnics who can be a ready-pool of cheap labour on a casual basis for Britain's industrial overlords.

You're a dope and a rogue, McTag. I well remember Sean Connery posturing and posing as the new messiah come to resurrect Scotland as an independent nation - with its celtic culture and its Scottish heritage all being part of this glorious vision for preserving Scottish nationhood.

And what did this poor, sadly misinformed, well-meaning ex-patriate Scottish patriot soon discover to his utter dismay... ? -- that the McTags, and the MacDonalds, and the MacNiders had since his departure all turned into lickspittles and sycophants for the 'multiculturalist' cause, and the 'social-progressive' ideologies, and the 'Refugees Action' lobby groups, and the 'There's-strength-and-unity-in-ethnic-and-cultural-diversity' clowns.

Just as with me, he couldn't believe how in just one generation his people had turned to water and become putty in the hands of the One Worlders and the International Socialists who want to tear down all the boundaries and scrap any concept of patriotic nationalism as 'racist' and 'bigoted'.

Herberts,

You state a couple of times that you don't blame the foreigners themselves, but the people that allow them to 'immigrate and keep their own culture' or somesuch.
And yet, you say that a solution lies in deporting quite a large group, a million or so? (I have no statistics). The people you don't blame. And you state. Let someone else take them under their wing (any country who will have them).
a) How many countries do YOU think are willing to let this large a group of forced immigrants settle on their shores?
b) How do you think the world leaders would react to such a 'solution'? Think they are going to say : "Way to Britain!" Pshaw.
c) Britain would set itself up quite nicely for really rabiate anti western fundamentalism indeed. That may lead to MORE, instead of less, terrorist attacks over there.
d) It would probably mean the end of the British economy. Not just because those people fill up jobs themselves, but also because much of the world trade with the western world stems from countries with a large muslim population. Southeast Asia in particular holds a significant, and still growing, muslim population.

But, then again, I doubt you'll even reply, because, after all, me not sharing your point of view makes me a what again? 'dimwitted moron', 'weakling' etc. Yeah. I dig ad hominem replies.

Naj.

naj - I'm going to keep this short and simple so even the bottom-feeders here will be able to understand me.

It is a total economic nonsense that in order for the British to have maintained their Western privileges and comfortable lifestyle it was first necessary and imperative that they import and play host to several million Third World immigrants and refugees.

Need proof of the pudding? Japan. No natural resources to speak of, yet has been a nation of people enjoying the highest of living standards for several decades now - and all without needing to import a single migrant to stuff up their cohesive nationhood with multiculturalist colonialism as is rife in Britain.

naj...

Why the raised eyebrow? Only a few years ago the Western Samoans decided to forcibly 'repatriate' one million[/i] 'Samoans' of Chinese descent back to wherever they wanted to go. I learnt this while doing casual work with a gang of Western Samoans here in Sydney, Australia.

Did the pinko United Nations - or the Western media which is predominantly owned and run by people of leftwing politics - scream and rant and hiss and boo with words like 'racists!'... 'bigots!... 'xenophobes!'... ? No sirree they didn't. Damn right they didn't.

These were a Third World, dark-skinned people deporting their Chinese immigrants for the express purpose of reclaiming their traditional Samoan identity and nationhood... and the world press and the United Nations looked the other way because these were not a white people, or an Anglo-Saxon people instigating this mass exodus.

naj - you tell me what it says about the state of British nation that it has been written into law that it is a crime which attracts a custodial sentence if you should be heard to call a Pakistani immigrant a 'Paki'... ?

This is just one example of to what extent the British people have been compromised in their own homeland by 40-years of coloured and Islamic immigration which has given rise to whole new industries of racial vilification prosecutions and penalties.

Pinko UN? Left-wing owned media?

Now I know you're delusional. The only left-wing owned media I can name is the Guardian and possibly the BBC. Pretty much all the tabloids in the UK are right-wing, as is the Times, the Telegraph, even the Daily Star (but let's face it, the Daily Star doesn't really have any news in it whatsoever). Am I missing any out?

The United Nations is only as effective as the countries that make it up. Pretty much all of the UN's inability to do anything is down to member nations disagreeing with each other and each other's interest. Communist? It's only as Communist as its member nations.

When one looks at Rupert Murdock and Conrad Black, and considers how far their corporate tendrils extend, it is more than a little hilarious to see the racist parroting the whine of the American conservatives, that the media is owned by the left. Wake up, Boyo, you're dreamin' . . .

I also find it very funny that a person who doesn't live in the UK and actually likes Americanisms is speaking about protecting the culture of a land that he doesn't live in and supports the language of a foreign nation.

What motivates this joker, and which has been obvious since very shortly after he arrived here, is racism. It gets tedious, but just as is the case with the christian liars who attack evolution, the racist liars who attack the modern world must not go unchallenged when puking up their bile. It is good to see that so many members are willing to speak out against them.

Setanta as usual hits the nail on the head. But we (generally speaking anti racists) havent made things easier by blithely assuming that immigrants will by some natural process of asimmillation, become mostly like "us" and we will absorb a little bit of the "them", thus benefitting all. It needs a more pro active approach than that.

damn how do you spell asimilashun?

We further dont do ourselves any favours by somehow allowing a situation whereby "up to 600"* al qaeda trained potential terrorists run around in Britain "scot free".

* Stella Rimington, (ex head MI5) estimate for number of predominantly pakistani men in Britain who have spent some time in training camps in Pakistan nominally visiting their grandmothers.

And less still when incompetent government and disfunctional management somehow allow up to 1000 convicted immigrant criminals to go free because they were to be deported: thus disappearing into the community some to re offend.

Herberts is lucid and makes a superficially attractive case...but only to those who as Setanta points out, are motivated by race. Herberts way forward would lead us into a catastrophe of nazi proportions imo. The way out of this mess is to have clear goals about the best sort of society we can achieve in future. Also to admit our own failings and the failings of others to make progress in this regard. If it means coming down hard on minority immigrant groups who bear ill will to this country and its (still) tolerant traditions...then so be it.

I hear you, Steve.

Your views on this are closest to mine, I think. I'm not against immigration per se, but recognise a lot of mistakes have been made, and some of those are coming back to trouble us now; particularly in allowing enclaves to build up which are anti- the rest of society. Freedom of assembly and of religion are all very well, but we should be aware of what these religions are actually preaching. When it's seen as anti-social, hard questions have to be asked. Communities should be required to police themselves, and isolate extremists.

Note however (not addressing this to Steve) that a lot of the extreme islamists in this country were born here...deportation is not an option.

And I hear you McTag

perhaps more people should hear us ?

Mrs. Walter certainly does, she says.

McT, are you hearing better?

Thanks, and for the mugs.

Malheureusement non, but such is the extreme clarity of Steve's thought and expression....

mon Dieu quelle longe mot...est ce possible?

err....could I change my last post please ... ?