Immigration and Racism in Britain and USA

Lord Ellpus wrote:

The trouble is though, Steve, if everyone actually engages him in debate, it just gives him more jerking off material.

You're right of course, me Lord. And yet I can't seem to stop myself.

Why ever? Well, one thing is that we've long gotten used to his antics over in the related Dutch thread, so I'm not as shocked as one might be first encountering his rants. (And I wouldnt have been, in any case, because he is almost a comic archetype of a character that's grabbed copious media space in Holland last few years; that is, he's like a comedian typecasting "the Fortuynist wingnut". Rich material, that.)

That also means I've had some time to reflect on my motivations, and there's more or less three of 'em, I think - none of which, to be sure, are in any way honorable.

* For one, there is a vague, or rather: vain, gratification in bantering with him. Why? Because it's so much like, I dunno - shooting fish in a barrel. As such, it's a form of entertainment more than anything else.

* There's almost a sense in comfort in knowing that he will respond in exactly the same way, saying the exact same things, every single time. I dunno. Its kinda like why some dark-spirited people have this person at hand to kick around every day. You kick it, and it makes the exact same sound - day after day after day. There's a pleasant sense of predictability, of routine, in that, in a world otherwise so fraught with change and unreliability. He's very reliable that way.

* There's also a zen-like meditational quality about talking with someone whom you have zero illusions about. That can save you a lot of frustration. With other folks who are mostly on the other side, but are yet, quite obviously, open-minded and intelligent, I can get all worked up sometimes, when they suddenly go all short-sighted or stubborn-headed about something, resorting to rhetorical nonsequiturs. Argh! Furiously frustrated, is what it makes me sometimes. But with Herberts, there's no such frustration, because you know from the start that there's nothing whatsoever to achieve there. So you're really just talking for the sake of talking, for your own gratification in it - there is no point, or target, and neither can there be. That, too, is kind of calming and comforting.

Yeah, some kind of combination like that. Cool

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McTag wrote:

The thread was an attempt (at some risk, I knew at the outset) to have a discussion about the risk inherent in the demographic change we are seeing in the UK and in Europe, and in exploring the measures which might be appropriate in anticipating and preventing future public order offences.

The knifing in Holland, and the bombs in London, show we have a real problem.

Actually, that Dutch thread that I just mentioned, which McGentrix started after the brutal slaughtering of film director and TV personality Theo van Gogh by Islamist extremist Mohammed B., had lots of very interesting takes and information, especially during the impressive running length it chalked up even before Herberts joined the scene.

I contributed what I could, even translating and summarising excerpts and lengthier stuff from the Dutch press. Should definitely be worth browsing through, the first buncha pages for example.

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http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/xcre9.jpg

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nimh...

Quote:

You're right of course, me Lord. And yet I can't seem to stop myself.

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Who is the bloke with the crown sceptre and doing the patriachal finger fing? Looks vaguely middle eastern if you ask me. Shurely shome mishtake?

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You're feeding the feral bear again, Steve - they won't like you for that. Beware you don't become tainted by association with me.This is a very cliquey and wanky little forum wherein everyone moves around like a self-congratulating school of mackeral - all flashing their scales in unison as they twist and turn as one... 'balling', and knotting, and rising and falling and doing their acrobatic loops all in unison.

The greatest fear amongst the membership here is to somehow fall foul of Elitist Opinion and be marked down as a pariah to be henceforth vilified and rejected by the core-group incestuous aristocracy here which is dominated by a floating crap game of smug and self-congratulating pseudo-intellectual wankers.

As a long-time student of Group Behaviour with its many facets and convolutions upon the theme of social dynamic - it has fascinating me to observe this human laboratory in which some of the silverbacks are seen to exercise their subtle but firm control over their subordinates with firm by gently paternalistic persuasion.

nimh is a master of this type of subtle blackmail in which a hint and a nudge soon has his minions parroting his views as a well-disciplined chorus.

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nimh wrote:

In the latest Ipsos-MORI poll in the UK, btw, the BNP scores 3%; and the UKIP another 2%. For the UK, a total of 5% in the polls for the far right is a lot.

On the other hand tho, the Greens alone get 4% in this poll - also a lot for a country where, in absence of proportional representation, they dont have a single seat in parliament.

http://www.mori.com/polls/2006/s060422c.shtml

The difference between the BNP on the one hand, and the Greens (and UKIP) on the other, however, is that later this week, when the British local elections take place, the BNP will get a lot more bang for its buck than the Greens. Lemme make a prediction on that count: even if they do both get, say, 3% nationally, it will be the BNP who'll be grabbing all the headlines.

Why? Because the BNP vote will be almost wholly concentrated in a dozen or two individual councils. They'll be taking, or almost taking, a select number of eyecatching seats in the kind of urban, impoverished post-industrial wards that make for a good, tragic narrative - and rightly so, because the miserable demise of the white working class in this postmodern era is a big story.

If the Greens, on the other hand, do indeed get 3% or 4%, they'll be getting about that percentage pretty much across England, with few striking top scores - and where they will score clearly better than average (Oxford, Brighton), it will be the result of a long-worked for, gradual rise over the years, rather than of a spectacular (if likely short-lived) ascendance. Pity for them; they'll get little column space. Fair it's not, but what can you do.

As a point in case, here's a preliminary report from highly urban Barking:

Quote:

Betty is adamant. She was never xenophobic, but she is now. Standing amidst the multicultural crowd that mingles through Barking market at lunchtime, she said: "I am definitely a xenophobe."

Betty is 72 and has lived in Barking all her life. Things have just got worse and worse, she says, and it is "the immigrants" who are to blame.

She is typical of those in Barking who say they will vote for the British National party in this week's local election. Last month, the employment minister, Margaret Hodge, MP for Barking and Dagenham, warned that up to eight out of 10 white working-class voters were tempted to vote for the far-right party.

Betty said: "I will vote BNP because the others don't care. I was brought up in a Labour household and I had an aunt who was a suffragette and was force fed, so we always vote. I voted BNP last year. I don't want to do it again but I will if that's the only means of getting them out and stop others getting in. I wouldn't want Moseley and fascism but it's going to come down to this here. People are going to start taking the law into their own hands."
Richard Smith, 77, "always votes BNP" because there are too many foreigners in the country. He says "they" burgled him four weeks ago. Asked how he knew it was "them", he said: "We knew by the big foot mark, I can't see many English people having feet as big as that."

Betty's husband, Bill, said: "They are getting away with murder. Just go to the magistrates court and see who is up there every day. I am 72. I have never seen the place go down as fast as it has. You get on the 366 and you are the only whites on the bus." This is a sentiment being encouraged by the BNP. In last year's general election, it gained 16.9% of the vote and on May 4 it is putting up 13 candidates in seven wards in the area.

But it won't be getting Charles Rust's vote. "I have lived in this place for 85 years. This council is one of the best we have ever had. I would never vote for the BNP - they want to get rid of all the foreigners but if they do that this country will stop dead.

"You won't get the BNP taking the low paid jobs. The Black Shirts had to have someone to pick on too, though with them it was the Jews. These people voting BNP don't stop and think. I wouldn't trust the BNP as far as I could throw them. And I don't think they'll get in."

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Related stories:

Cameron: vote for anyone but BNP
2006/04/18 · The Guardian

Big parties get blame for expected BNP surge
2006/04/18 · The Guardian
Labour and Tory leaderships were warned that a predicted surge in BNP support in the British local elections is fuelled by their obsession with a small number of swing voters in middle England. Labour MP's in east London said Labour seemed to believe that the working class in traditional Labour heartlands no longer exists, or is electorally irrelevant. John Cryer said: "An awful lot of working class people feel they have lost control of their own destiny in a way that was not true 20 to 30 years ago".

BNP 'needs 5% swing to win 70 council seats'
2006/04/17 · The Guardian
The British National party is within a 3% swing of winning an extra 40 council seats, according to Searchlight. It has 20 now. Employment minister Hodge warned that white working class voters in her east London constituency are tempted to vote BNP en masse, partly because they believe "no one else is listening to them". They are angry at the lack of housing since immigrants arrived, and the BNP has increased its anti-Muslim rhetoric in the wake of the July 7 bombings and the Danish cartoon row.

Also interesting:

The A-list: new [British Conservative] leader's drive for women and minority candidates
2006/04/19 · The Guardian

His party has a long way to go, but gotta give Cameron an A for effort..

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herberts wrote:

it has fascinating me to observe this human laboratory in which some of the silverbacks are seen to exercise their subtle but firm control over their subordinates with firm by gently paternalistic persuasion.

nimh is a master of this type of subtle blackmail in which a hint and a nudge soon has his minions parroting his views as a well-disciplined chorus.

I have minions? Subordinates? Wow.

Just my luck. One day I'm set aside as an extremist twice in a row, another, I'm anointed a kind of leader of the posting masses. Aint the eye of the beholder a funny thing

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The BNP will never have a hope in hell until they learn to appeal to a sizeable portion of the British middle classes. More than anything they need to dispense with their cloth-cap, street-corner image and start employing the sort of educated prose and diction that will find resonance and respectability amongst the educated middle classes.

This will happen in time. The wheels of political opinion are forever turning, inexorably, though exceeding slow.

We will be back. Not nazis. Just an ordinary decent British people who want to flush the foreigners and the alien imposters all the way back to their own racial and cultural homelands... and leave us no longer feeling like foreigners in our own homeland.

And Steve - for Christ sake man - don't start whinging on about "But they were born here!"

That geographic accident of birth does not stop them from attending mosques and learning Arabic to better distance themselves from assimilating and identifying with the British native.

And ask any UK-born Pakistani where he went for his holidays and he'll more than likely tell you he visited relatives 'back home'... the capital of which is Karachi - not London.

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herberts wrote:

Not nazis. Just an ordinary decent British people who want to flush the foreigners and the alien imposters all the way back to their own racial and cultural homelands...

I think you should re-evaluate those Nazis, Herberts. Give them another chance. "Flushing foreigners and alien imposters all the way back to their own racial and cultural homelands" - thats exactly the kind of thing they stood for, after all - even used the same kind of terminology, an' all.

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Quote:

Betty is adamant. She was never xenophobic, but she is now. Standing amidst the multicultural crowd that mingles through Barking market at lunchtime, she said: "I am definitely a xenophobe."

Betty is 72 and has lived in Barking all her life. Things have just got worse and worse, she says, and it is "the immigrants" who are to blame.

Richard Smith, 77, "always votes BNP" because there are too many foreigners in the country. He says "they" burgled him four weeks ago. Asked how he knew it was "them", he said: "We knew by the big foot mark, I can't see many English people having feet as big as that."

But it won't be getting Charles Rust's vote. "I have lived in this place for 85 years. This council is one of the best we have ever had. I would never vote for the BNP - they want to get rid of all the foreigners but if they do that this country will stop dead.

"You won't get the BNP taking the low paid jobs. The Black Shirts had to have someone to pick on too, though with them it was the Jews. These people voting BNP don't stop and think. I wouldn't trust the BNP as far as I could throw them. And I don't think they'll get in."

I hope Betty is in real pain - and I hope that pain continues indefinitely. I hope this silly bitch who for a full 40-years would have been citing me and my ilk as 'racist' and 'bigoted fascist monsters' has a lot more discomfort and disappointment yet coming to her.

I hope her childhood neighbourhood continues to be even further packed-in with blacks, and Kurds, and Indians, and Middle Easterners, and Muslims, and turban-wearing sikhs.

85-year old Charles Rust who can't get enough of being immersed in blacks and Muslims in his suburban streets - I don't bear him any ill-will. He thrives on this demographic exotica and at a personal level I say good luck to him and I hope he enjoys many fine and happy years yet to come.

But it's the idiots like 'Betty' who for 40-years spent her time condemning the likes of the BNP as 'racist' - while voting in further leftwing government administrations - and then, at age 72, suddenly looks around her and is shocked and horrified to realise she's the only white person on the 366 bus going into town.

These are precisely the sort of irresponsible borderline retards who for 40-years have by their votes been holding open the door to the mass immigration of Third World people who bear absolutely no similarity to her homeland compatriots.

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nimh... as you well know, Hitler's Germany bore absolutely no resemblance to the demographic bedlam and the multicultural Babylon which pertains today as the status quo in the British Isles. It has been a situation entirely brought about by successive government social-engineers at the behest of the United Nation's leftwing bureaucracy and Britains own business community.

The opinion of the broad mass of the British mainstream with regard to immigration has always been a matter of the most supreme indifference to the political elite and their campaign-funding business community sponsors.

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herberts wrote:

We will be back. Not nazis. Just an ordinary decent British people...

Not you, then.

herberts wrote:

And ask any UK-born Pakistani where he went for his holidays and he'll more than likely tell you he visited relatives 'back home'... the capital of which is Karachi - not London.

You would shut down the Irish societies in Boston or the Caledonian Clubs in Cape Town or Montevideo?

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You are resorting to parody and farce, McTag. Quite assinine and quite par for the course with such as Lord Ellpus and kitchenpete (who is an apologist for snood's homicidal rage against me).

Come on, snood! Put that ball down and come and give me a hug! You know you want to!

http://forums.keeptouch.net/images/smilies/hugging.gif

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9634/heart4zm.gif

With some of you bozos if I didn't laugh I'd cry.

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herberts wrote:

And ask any UK-born Pakistani where he went for his holidays and he'll more than likely tell you he visited relatives 'back home'... the capital of which is Karachi - not London.

One could, at least, avoid such assertions, being otherwise so adamant...

The capital of Pakistan is Islamabad.

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Herberts, IMO you are a dangerous idiot.

One should never argue with an idiot, as people watching may not be able to tell the difference. I will thereore take my leave of this thread.

Bye bye.

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Quote:

The capital of Pakistan is Islamabad.

Francis! Bienvenue copain! As you can see, once again I am cast in the role of bête noire and enfant terrible! Sacre bleu! Merde alors!

It seems to be my unhappy destiny to forever be plagued by leftwing-liberals with a hard-on for Marxist-Leninist social philosophy. The leader here of this Mickey Mouse club is none other than nimh of course - very suave, very low-key, very amiable - but is nevertheless a diehard class-enemy of the monied middle classes. Better watch your back Lord Ellpus and kitchenpete...

And yes, Frankie-baby! - Very Happy

You alone have picked the Deliberate Error[/i] for today and have won yourself two airline tickets and a 10-day hotel reservation for two at the beachside resort of Pape'ete in the Polenesian Islands of the South Pacific.

Beaucoup de félicitations, mon ami!

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/nkjh2.jpg

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This thread is soooooooooooooooo funny !!

Herberts - I am an Indian living in London. Tell me, what would you propose for a guy like me?

Let's make it personal.

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Herberts - You can keep your "cheap" offer to yourself, in order to socialise with some dark skinned specimens of humankind, which, I can assure you, will be a wonderful experience.

Because I've already booked to Hawaii for my "after next" holidays...

And, if it bothers you, you can bring a book. A geography atlas, for example.

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Immigration and Racism in Britain and USA

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