0
   

The Worst President in History?

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Aug, 2006 09:30 am
Quote:
2. In 1916, at the start of World War I, the public debt was 1 Billion, rising to a peak of 26 Billion in 1919 to finance the war( WARS DO THAT)


In 2002, the total deficit was $157 billion. Yet total debt outstanding increased from $5.807 trillion to $6.228 trillion, or $421 billion.


In 2003, the total deficit was $377 billion, yet total debt outstanding increased from $6.228 trillion to $6.783 trillion, or $555 billion.


In 2004, the total deficit was $412 billion, yet total debt outstanding increased from $6.783 trillion to $7.379 trillion, or $596 billion.

In 2005, the total deficit was $318 billion, yet total debt outstanding increased from $7.379 trillion to $7.932 trillion or $553 billion.

So far in 2006, total debt outstanding has increased from $7.932 to $8.5 trillion, or $568 billion.

Notice that in each of the last 5 years, the total amount of debt issued was larger than the reported fiscal deficit. In addition, notice that total amount of debt is between $553 billion to $596 billion for the last 3 years.

There is far more debt being issued than the deficit calls for. WHy? To pay for the goddamn war! The deficit figures touted by the administration don't cover war costs...

When the debt has gone up by over 2.5 trillion dollars in 5 years, that's bad, I don't care how you spin things.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Aug, 2006 01:01 pm
I would be appreciative if the conservatives here would somehow explain how the high deficits and debt are acceptable in light of the sizeable GDP. It seems that our GDP is not somehow making it easier to pay off our debt, much less stop its growth.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Aug, 2006 11:31 pm
I am very much afraid that

l. Advocate and Cyclopitchorn cannot read or understand key economic concepts

2. They know almost nothing about Economics.

Note:

-------------------------------------------
Setanta wrote:



If one recalls the eagerness with which business embraced Clinton in 1992, after the doldrums of the Pappy Bush admininstration--your comment about the Diggers is nothing short of hilariously delusional. I assert that the the economic policies are wrong because they have mortgaged the future of the nation with an enormous debt, staggering in scope compared to any debt run by any other administration of any complexion. Those policies are the more ruinous when one considers that the nation was prosperous and the budget ran a surplus prior the election of this administration. That surplus was produced by the properly elected representatives of the nation, so your little melodrama there just makes you look ridiculous. The nation has borne far heavier costs with this administration and a tax-and-spend conservative Congress and administration then you will be able to demonstrate was the case in the previous eight years of an administration by the Democrats, which faced for most of that time a Republican dominated House.

end of quote


I am very much afraid that Setanta is failing in his knowledge of basic Economics.

He talks about a "Enormous debt"

"Staggering in scope compared to any debt run by any other administration of any complexion"

Mr. Setanta knows very little about Economics.

One could say that the Administration has raised the Gross National Product ENORMOUSLY. One could say that the Gross National Product is "Staggering in scope compared to any GNP run by any other administration of any complexion"

Mr. Setanta obviously is not aware that:

l. Most of US History has seen the US in debt.

2. In 1916, at the start of World War I, the public debt was 1 Billion, rising to a peak of 26 Billion in 1919 to finance the war( WARS DO THAT)

3, The government's ability to finance its debt is tied to the strength and size of the economy or GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT.

4. As a percentage of GDP, debt held by the public was highest at the end of World War II, at 109 percent and then fell to 24 percent in 1974 before gradually rising to 65%. THE DECLINE FROM 109 percent to 24 percent OCCURED BECAUSE THE ECONOMY GREW FASTER THAN THE DEBT ACCUMULATED. Although debt held by the public rose from $242 Billion to 344 Billion between 1946 and 1974, EVEN THOUGH THE DEBT STILL GREW, THE ECONOMY GREW FASTER.


I do not think that Cycloptichorn or Advocate have the ability to respond to No. 3 and 4!

They obviously failed Economics 101, if, indeed, they ever took the course.

If they do not understand No. 3 and 4, I will be happy to rewrite it so that a sixth grader can understand!
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Sep, 2006 04:33 am
I am very much afraid that, however many times a person posts the exact same thing, facts are stubborn things. Focusing on one factor fails to reveal the reality of Conservative Republican economic policy.

It doesn't much matter that the economy is growing if the benefits of that growth fail to provide support for the future and that is what is happening. For the past thirty years, not coincidentally the years of the rise to power of the authoritarian conservatives, the wages of working people, the ranks of non-supervisory workers, have either fallen or remained flat. They still make, adjusted for inflation, what they made in 1973. And, at the very same time, at the urging of Republicans, insurance benefits for those workers have also been reduced or eliminated.

So what? sneers the GOP. Well, what they've done is kill any chance for an American kid born in the lower economic groups from achieving anything more than what his parents did. That used to be called the American Dream, but now a kid, in order to do as well or better than his parents did, has to hope he is born in Canada, or France, or Germany or Japan or even, holy cow, Italy. The only major industrial nation that the USA does better than in this regard is the UK and if the GOP achieves it's goal of repealing the estate tax, the USA will be well on it's way of completely reducing worker's buying (and bargaining) power in this economy to zero. Just where they want them.

Withou that movement upward you lose an important spur to economic growth, what you get then is little or no growth except for the debt. The wealthy, those who have benefited the most from this conservative shell game, get to keep what they've got, while those non-supervisory peons try to pay off the mounting federal debt at higher tax rates. (Adjusted for inflation the tax rates on the lower incomes have risen in the past thirty years. The GOP must have forgotten to cuts those taxes.)

Hmmm flat wages, the same or higher tax rates, less benefits: that will teach them to vote for the Party of God.

So the debt neither gets paid down (used to be a conservative goal) nor gets used to promote job growth or the growth of wages (such liberal ideas!) rather it's ballooned by the continued wars and other mis-adventures of this the worst President ever.

Joe(And it ain't the fat-cat GOP base that will be burdened by all this, it's us dopes.)Nation
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Sep, 2006 04:19 pm
The GDP under Bush has grown at normal rates, and certainly not skyrocketed. Moreover, much of the growth is due to massive government spending on a giant credit card.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Sep, 2006 04:27 pm
Cycloptichorn says to the air, that when our economy stumbles, as is inevitable in any economic system, that our ability to continue to grow will slow or pause completely, whereas the debt will keep compounding.

Cycloptichorn says to the air that he has forgotten more about economics than many posters on this board ever knew in the first place, especially loudmouth idiot posters who keep changing their names.

Cycloptichorn says to the air that certain people attempt to use an economic shell game to pretend that the US will never have to pay down its debt, as long as the economy keeps growing; but this doesn't change the fact that Americans' public debt has risen by half again in just a few short years, which defies explanation as a 'good thing.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Sep, 2006 02:43 am
Joe Notion wrote:

It doesn't much matter that the economy is growing if the benefits of that growth fail to provide support for the future and that is what is happening. For the past thirty years, not coincidentally the years of the rise to power of the authoritarian conservatives, the wages of working people, the ranks of non-supervisory workers, have either fallen or remained flat. They still make, adjusted for inflation, what they made in 1973. And, at the very same time, at the urging of Republicans, insurance benefits for those workers have also been reduced or eliminated.

end of quote

But Joe Notion provides no EVIDENCE

"the benefits of that growth fail to provide support for the future"

He also just STATES that the wages of working people, have either fallen or remained flat and that they still make, adjusted for inflation, what they made in 1973.

But Joe Notion provides no EVIDENCE of this statement!!!
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Sep, 2006 02:48 am
Neither Joe Notion or Cyclopitchorne has shown that the statements in number one through four below are not correct!


l. Most of US History has seen the US in debt.

2. In 1916, at the start of World War I, the public debt was 1 Billion, rising to a peak of 26 Billion in 1919 to finance the war( WARS DO THAT)

3, The government's ability to finance its debt is tied to the strength and size of the economy or GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT.

4. As a percentage of GDP, debt held by the public was highest at the end of World War II, at 109 percent and then fell to 24 percent in 1974 before gradually rising to 65%. THE DECLINE FROM 109 percent to 24 percent OCCURED BECAUSE THE ECONOMY GREW FASTER THAN THE DEBT ACCUMULATED. Although debt held by the public rose from $242 Billion to 344 Billion between 1946 and 1974, EVEN THOUGH THE DEBT STILL GREW, THE ECONOMY GREW FASTER.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Sep, 2006 03:05 am
Cyclopitchorn says that when the economy stumbles the debt will keep compounding.

He does not know that the economy "stumbled" in 1946 when the BUDGET DEFICIT( NOT THE TOTAL DEBT WHICH WAS, OF COURSE, HIGHER) WAS
AN ASTONISHING 109% OF THE GDP FOR THE YEAR, BUT THAT

the economy recovered by 1974 because even though we kept piling up yearly deficits to add to the total debt of the USA, the GDP grew faster!!!
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Sep, 2006 05:48 am
In case there are shut-ins here, persons of weak abilities to read the most recent commentaries or those of weak minds who, when seeing something in print which is common knowledge but which defies some ill-conceived notion they hold dear, who then need to directed to some source of that common information:

So here's Paul Krugman who provided me with the germ of my comments :
Quote:
LINK
And there is this:
Most recent data here


The answers that the addled shut-ins will respond with are
A) So what? Krugman is a liberal hack.
B) I can't open the link because I am a computer incompetent. (How do you use the quote thingie?)
or C) Mr. Paul Krugman, I'm afraid, does not understand economics.

Right.

The other tack, if any of those are tacks, will be to attack the statistic as flawed. The Bush administration, after being sufficiently embarrassed by the numbers on wages, is seeking to have the BLS remove the statistic.

That's right. See, they are not unlike our shut-in, when they see something that stubbornly refutes everything about their reality, they try to get it phased out or ignored.

That's the message of this worst President in History to the workers of America: tough nuggies on your weekly take-home.

Oh, and Happy Labor Day.

Joe(gotta go clock in)Nation
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Sep, 2006 07:39 am
The public debt is 65% of GDP today?
WOW.. the public debt in 2000 was only 35% of GDP.

The public debt as % of GDP almost doubled in 6 years? I don't think it did but if you want to claim it did Bernard, wouldn't even you have to admit that is pretty "staggering in scope."
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Sep, 2006 02:47 am
Pathetic Parados can't read!


Wars raise debt.

Again, DEBT HELD BY THE PUBLIC( you do know what that means, don't you, pusillanimous Parados) WAS HIGHEST AT THE END OF WORLD WAR II, AT 109 PERCENT!!!



Since Parados is Pathetic and does not know a thing about the history of the economy of the US, he does not know that the ratio of the GNP to the
DEBT fluctuates. It is higher during wartime and lower during peacetime WHEN THE ECONOMY IS GROWING FASTER THAN THE DEBT IS RISING.

I am sure that the statistics challenged Parados will not understand the table below:


1871 2.35 6.71 0.35 The first column is year
1874 2.25 7.53 0.30
1879 2.25 9.18 0.25 The second column is TOTAL DEBT IN
1884 1.83 11.3 0.16 BILLIONS
1889 1.64 12.5 0.13
1890 1.58 13.1 0.12 The third column is TOTAL GROSS
1891 1.56 13.5 0.12 NATIONAL PRODUCT IN BILLIONS
1892 1.63 14.3 0.114
1893 1.60 13.8 0.116 The fourth column is the ratio of DEBT
1894 1.67 12.6 0.13 TO GNP.
1898 1.80 15.4 0.12
1899 1.98 17.3 0.11
1904 2.2 24.2 0.09
1909 1.15 31.6 0.036
1910 1.2 35.5 0.034
1913 1.2 39.6 0.030
1914 1.2 38.6 0.030
1915 1.2 40.0 0.030
1916 1.2 48.3 0.025
1917 3.0 60.4 0.050
1918 12.5 76.4 0.16
1919 25.5 84.0 0.34
1920 24.3 91.5 0.27
1921 24.0 69.6 0.34
1922 23.0 74.1 0.31
1925 20.5 93.1 0.22
1929 16.9 103.1 0.16
1930 16.2 91.1 0.18
1931 16.8 76.3 0.22
1932 19.5 58.5 0.33
1933 23.1 56.0 0.41
1935 32.0 72.5 0.44
1940 43.0 100 0.43
1941 49.0 124 0.40
1942 72.4 158 0.46
1943 136.7 192 0.71
1944 201 210 0.96
1945 259 214 1.21
1946 269 210 1.28
1947 258 231 1.12
1948 252 258 0.98
1949 253 257 0.98
1950 257 285 0.90
1955 274 397 0.68
1960 284 506 0.56
1965 313 688 0.45
1970 370 982 0.38
1975 533 1530 0.35
1980 908 2630 0.35
1982 1140 3070 0.37
1983 1380 3310 0.42
1984 1564 3801 0.42
1986 2120 4278 0.51
1988 2601 4908 0.54
1990 3286 5524 0.59
1992 4077 5866 0.69


- Oscar Falconi -

The table above ends in 1992. I ADDED 2005 figures below----

The numbers in the first two columns are in Billions

THE THIRD COLUMN SHOWS THE RATIO OF THE TOTAL DEBT OF THE UNITED STATES TO THE GNP.

2005 12,485* 8,519** 0.68

Now, even someone as bewildered as Pathetic Parados can understand that, as I have written before---

THE GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO FINANCE ITS DEBT IS TIED TO THE STRENGTH AND SIZE OF THE ECONOMY(GDP)

THE FIGURE 0.68 IS PROBABLY TOO LARGE SINCE THE

**DEBT TOTAL IS UP TO THE MINUTE

WHILE

THE *GNP IS FOR LAST YEAR( 2005) IT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE GROWTH FOR THIS YEAR( ABOUT 3.5% WHICH WOULD RAISE IT TO AT LEAST 12, 800 MAKING THE RATIO CLOSER TO 0.66.

FOR PURPOSES OF DISCUSSION, I WILL HOLD TO 0.68

***********************************************************

Now, note the ratio of total debt to GNP from 1943 to 1950--ALL HIGHER THAN AT THIS TIME

Now, note the ratio of total debt to GNP during peace time DURING THE SEVENTIES--IT DROPPED TO 0.35-0.38. That clearly shows that an economy WHICH IS GROWING can make the ratio between the TOTAL DEBT AND THE GNP SMALLER AS LONG AS THE G N P GROWS
F A S T E R E A C H Y E A R T H A N T H E D E B T!!!


*********************************************************

Advocate and Joe Notion are probably too dense to understand the concept but if they would equate the GNP to a household's income and the DEBT to a household's expenses, if they are able to think clearly, they would see that the DEBT is significant ONLY when measured against the INCOME( GNP)

************************************************************
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Sep, 2006 05:50 am
I'm sure there are individuals who, having gone off their medications for a few days, or perhaps being on their choice of medications for a few days, see the world in extremely simplistic ways.

Good/Evil, yes, that about sums it up.

Thus they see economics in the same way, trying to deal with a highly complex situation in up/down in/out us/them manners. They can't really do it, but it's a way for they to try and control what they cannot. Part of being a conservative is doing what you are told, so after years of attacking the use of a debt economy, now they are told, after Reagan sanctified the process, that deficits are hunk-dory and nothing to get hung about---- strawberry fields forever.

But debt and deficits, as several here have pointed out, are not always the same. Looking at a ratio without understanding the surrounding circumstances generating that ratio is a failure to look at reality.

If you want to see a dumbfounded look ask a conservative who defends the present level of debt if he's okay with the fact that the majority of that debt is now held, not by American banks, nor like the WWII debt, in the hands of widows and orphans holding War Bonds, but by foreign nations, with the largest holder, China, not exactly the kindly loan lender over at the Farmer's Credit Union.

Joe(nothing to get hung about indeed)Nation
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Sep, 2006 06:52 am
Quote:
Take China for example. As of March of this year, China held over $321 billion worth of U.S. Treasuries, up from the $60 billion it owned at the end of 2000. Similarly, Japan now owns $640 billion worth of U.S. Treasuries, up from $317.7 billion in December 2000. Lately, however, America has also borrowed heavily from oil exporter nations (as defined by the Department of the Treasury), which include many nations that despise America. Luminaries such as Venezuela, Ecuador, Iran, Libya, Algeria, Indonesia and Iraq, and several other primarily Middle Eastern nations, now own $98 billion worth of U.S. debt.

According to Brad Setser, director of research at Roubini Global Economics, "The irony is that the three countries in the world adding to reserves the fastest and thus buying the most U.S. debt now are China, Saudi Arabia and Russia, none of them democracies. … We are increasingly counting on a group of creditors who are not our closest friends but have a bigger and bigger stake in America," he says.

So America's debt is growing, and a greater amount is in less reliable hands.

This creates two problems.

First, the value of the dollar is increasingly dependent upon foreigners. This makes the U.S. vulnerable to coercion and blackmail.


In commenting on this radical shift in holders of U.S. debt, Frederick Kempe of the Wall Street Journal says, "The more closely economists study that data, the more they worry," especially over America's "decrease[d] influence over … the world's largest market, the $2 trillion in foreign exchange that changes hands daily. The dollar forex market can increasingly be shifted by decisions that foreign governments make about selling dollar assets. What's also at stake is leverage on matters as diverse as U.S. home mortgage rates and America's global political clout" (May 9).

For example, remember what happened on June 23, 1997, when former Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto wondered aloud about what would happen to the U.S. economy if Japan diversified and began to sell some of its, at that time, $300 billion in U.S. Treasury securities (remember Japan now owns more than $640 billion worth). Following Hashimoto's remarks, the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged by the largest single day amount (at that time) since the Crash of 1987. Aids to Hashimoto were quick to say that the comments were not intended as a threat. Since then, other foreigners have wondered aloud about dumping U.S. debt (Treasuries), also causing ripple effects through global markets (Moscow Times, May 11).

But what if, at some point, our debtors did want to influence American policy? In a potential conflict between China and Taiwan, would China stand idly by, holding $321 billion in U.S. debt, if the United States was to interfere to protect democratic Taiwan? Would Taiwan simply hold its $68.9 billion if China attacked it and America did not come to its aid?

What if China and Taiwan were to peacefully reunite? Together they would control $389.9 billion worth of U.S. debt. Since China also controls Hong Kong, you can add in an additional $46.6 billion worth of U.S. debt, for a grand total of $436.5 billion.

That is a huge chunk of potential economic or political influence. So much influence that if China even "reduces its Treasury purchases, the U.S. would run into difficulties" financing its debts, says the Nikkei Weekly. That same publication says Chinese leaders have boasted that because China is such an important lender to America, "Beijing is holding a dagger to Washington's throat" (May 1).

The second problem with having foreigners hold so much U.S. debt is the risk that foreigners may choose to stop accumulating it and start spending it. As with any person, the more money you have, the greater the pull to spend. If foreign nations begin to spend their dollars, the increased supply of U.S. greenbacks in circulation would probably drive the value of the dollar down, making American possessions less expensive relative to assets in other currencies. Consequently, American corporations and businesses could increasingly become targets of foreign acquisitions.Overspending has indebted America to the rest of the world. We owe the world so much that the threat of other nations inducing a U.S. economic disaster by just refusing to lend us more money is now a reality. As such, as America's indebtedness grows, America is less able to protect strategic industries from foreign takeovers.

Who is a serf? A serf is one whose destiny is owned by others. Someone else owns the land he slaves on. Someone else owns the profits and technology he develops. All the fruits of his labor flow to his owners.

Debt is turning America into a serfdom.
SOURCE

Another legacy of George Bush and the Republican conservatives.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Sep, 2006 09:06 am
I stand corrected on stating that the majority of our nation's debt is held for foreign nations, it is only 2 Trillion out of the 8.3 Trillion owed. Still, a trillion here and a trillion there and pretty soon you are talking about real money (tip of the hat to Sen. Ev Dirkson)

Oh, and just in case you thought those tax cuts can be paid for with growth... .

Quote:


Joe(reality bites)Nation
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Sep, 2006 09:07 am
Bush is claiming a big turn towards victory with the arrest of a high official of al-Qaida in Iraq. However, al-Qaida is a sideshow in Iraq, where things are rapidly going down hill. Military experts, including many at the Pentagon, think that Bush is nuts with mental deterioration.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/content2/2006/09/bush_diddles_while_iraq_burns.html
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Sep, 2006 09:24 am
As of 2005, foreignors owned 44 % of US treasury bills and notes. Foreign ownership has since soared to well over 50 %.

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/hodges/2005/0412.html
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Sep, 2006 07:31 am
The lengths conservative news shows like Fox go to in order to preach fear, hate and, above all, lies, is astounding. Here is an example of Brenda Buttner "business" show found on Fox News. If this is where conservatives get their information it's no wonder they are so clueless.

Quote:
Dumb and Dumber on 'Bulls and Bears'
Reported by Judy - September 2, 2006 - 54 comments
Brenda Buttner, after pleading with folks to watch her show, delivered one of the dumbest business shows to come along in a long time in Saturday's (September 2, 2006) edition of "Bulls and Bears.".

Buttner not only cobbled together two premises for her show that had nothing to do with business, she also let her unqualified regulars show their incredible ignorance.

She began, for yet another week, with the question of whether Iran's nuclear enrichment plans matter to Wall Street. Charles Payne, of wstreet.com, began with the first of several pretty silly comments, saying this week's deadline was a good thing because it means the U.S. is closer to doing something and that's why the stock market went up last week. Huh?

Nobody else followed the logic in that remark either, with Tobin Smith, of Changewave Research, saying the market doesn't care about Iran right now.

A few minutes later, Payne was back into the mix, saying that the problem in dealing with Iran lies with U.S. allies. "We want to bring Germany and France closer to the fold," he said.

Germany and France? Even Scott Bleier, of hybridinvestors.com, knew that was wrong, correcting Payne that it is China and Russia that appear to want to block sanctions on Iran.

Then it was Tobin Smith's turn to put his foot in the mouth. Pretending he was on his cell phone, Smith said he had just gotten a phone call from Islamabad and that the rulers of Iran were happy that they were the main topic on "Bulls and Bears."

Sorry Toby. As Pat Dorsey, of morningstar.com, pointed out, Islambad is not in Iran, but Pakistan.

Then Tracy Byrnes, New York Post business writer, caught the dumb bug, advocating that the U.S. attack both North Korea and Iran. "We just need to take all these people out, and then we can pretty much go on from there," she said, drawing some murmurs of concern from the regulars.

The show was barely half over and already this bunch had embarrassed itself pretty badly, but Buttner went on to her next segment, which also had absolutely nothing to do with business news. This segment asked whether Wall Street believed Democrats would be better than Republicans in fighting terror.

Democratic strategist Susan Estrich laid out a pretty good case for why people should give up on Republicans as the party to handle national security. "They've given them six years and what have they got? They got a 9/11 commission that the Republicans fought and then the Republicans haven't implemented the recommendations. They've gotten a war in Iraq which is against the wrong enemy, turned the whole world against us. They've got a Department of Homeland Security that can't deal with the mess of Katrina. So I think the idea is when you got a party that can't do the job, you might as well look to the other party for an improvement," she said.

Then Buttner turned the Republicans on the panel loose on her.

Payne noted, "Homeland Security and Katrina -- I don't know that that is necessarily their department." Since when? Did Bush outsource that to Halliburton, too?

Tobin Smith backed up Payne with, "The bottom line is where's the attack? We've probably stopped 15 or 20 that we haven't heard of." I doubt that. Bush wouldn't miss a chance to crow. Look at the publicity over that hapless bunch they arrested in Florida.

Estrich countered with, "The fact that we don't know about it means we should trust the people even though everything we know they've done, they've done wrong? They've bungled the war in Iraq, bungled the response to Katrina, bungled the response to the 9/11 commission, but because of what we don't know about, we should trust them?"

A decent response, but too complicated for this bunch of dummies to understand.
SOURCE
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Sep, 2006 08:28 am
Advocate wrote:
Bush is claiming a big turn towards victory with the arrest of a high official of al-Qaida in Iraq. However, al-Qaida is a sideshow in Iraq, where things are rapidly going down hill. Military experts, including many at the Pentagon, think that Bush is nuts with mental deterioration.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/content2/2006/09/bush_diddles_while_iraq_burns.html



The promotion of amnesia. Forget Osama, forget the capture of Sadaam, forget Zarqawi.

The big turn to victory is today a reality with this arrest.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Sep, 2006 08:31 am
x, thanks for the good piece on Fox's latest inanity. BUTTner is a good name for her.
0 Replies
 
 

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