The Worst President in History?

It's not so common to see you use irony Ash. Keep it up.

You're just a "guest"?

What party started the demonizing in the first place? I remember when there were moderate Republicans in government who would cross the aisle and compromise. Those days are long gone and instead we have a bunch of highly partisan Republicans that call all Democrats "Marxists", Cut and Runners", "Unpatriotic" because they don't back a senseless war. Nope, the shoe is on the other foot Asherman et al. We are not sitting back and taking it any more and if we get a bit testy, well so be it.

That said, I am not for name calling....for either side. We should not think of ourselves as enemies even when we disagree. It is not unpatriotic to question the government. It is high time we did a lot more of it.

Yep, in my opinion the Democratic Party is THE Party of choice for todays Socialists and Marxists. That doesn't mean that any significant part of the Democratic Party is Marxists. Nor does it meant that I don't recognize and acknowledge that on the far right we have the opposit extreme shouting and demanding attention. I also believe that the GOP is far closer to the center of the electorate than the Democrats.

Cicero, your views are far to the left of center. Surely, you wouldn't want to be defined as a conservative ... would you? You are the guy who wanted to tar and feather, and drive Congressman from someplace back east out office on the basis of a newspaper article with no regard to due process. I'm sure you'll correct me if I have a detail wrong. You have become progressively more insulting to everyone who does not agree with you. Would it hurt you to be just a bit more tolerant? Are good manners uncalled for when you are engaged in a discussion with folks who hold different opinions?

Take heart, Walter ... if you had misspelled "numbskull," it would have just been ignored.

Marxists in the Democratic Party? That's so quaint. Let's start a witch hunt!

In denial, are we?

Are you really serious about this? Care to name one?

Ashman, I never said I as perfect. As for my politics, I prefer the old conservative standards which doesn't resemble anything about conservatism today:

People are the source of the greatness of this nation
This also includes those Americans that mistakenly believe that America isn't all that great

Only when people are granted liberty do they prosper and grow

American becomes greater with the proliferation of liberty at home and abroad

Upholding the Constitution and the ideals of the Declaration of Independence

All men are created equal and that they have certain unalienable rights granted from God

That Governments are instituted solely to uphold these principles

Understanding the Constitution and the Declaration of Independece in context

Maintaining Federal Government within it's Constitutional restrictions

The role is to protect American citizens from foreign and domestic threats to liberty

It is NOT to provide Social Security, Medicare, and other social programs

All powers NOT assigned the federal government are the responsibility of the states and the people that make up this union

Judges should interpret law and base decisions on historical context
They should not make new law based on their own whims
They should not make new law based on false contexts presented by lawyers before them
The President should not make law by Executive Order

USC Article. I. Section. 1. "All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives."
The Government serves the people
The Govenrment and members of it must be held to the same standards and laws that the people they serve are
No double standards

The right to practice one's religion freely SHALL NOT be infringed
Congress shall NOT establish a national religion and force people to worship in a certain way "or else"

Congress shall make NO law that makes a religious establishment beholden to the state
The right to PEACEABLY assemble upon public property shall not be infringed

The right to cause a disturbance, even in a non-violent fashion, is NOT included in this
The right of citizens to petition for redress before government shall NOT be prohibited
The right to keep and bear arms for each citizen SHALL NOT be infringed, even at the state level
Guns do not cause crime or harm, evil people using guns do
The people of the United States have a right to privte property
The United States government does not have the right to place the land (i.e. the means of production) off limits to the people
Evil must be confronted where ever it exists because evil is incompatable with liberty
Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Nazism and other left-wing ideologies are not compatable with liberty and are by corelation evil

Truth is more important than personal politics
America is NOT the policeman of the world but we should never turn our backs on peace loving and "democratic" people under attack by evil
We are NOT the bank for the world and it is NOT our role to write checks to help foreign countries that oppress their people and refuse to generate their own wealth to solve their problems.

Criminals must be punished as the law dictates
You must be willing to extend the hand of frendship to all
Those that refuse the hand of freindship are enemies of the United States and shall not be dealt with as freinds but as enemies
When we extend this hand and it is accepted by some and rejected by others we reserve the right to make war and peace as our principles dictate

The Government in order to fullfil it's assigned duties must collect taxes

If more money is collected than is needed, that is NOT a sign for the government to spend more

ALL Americans must burden part of the cost of government
Americans that do not burden part of the cost of government do NOT have any incentive to maintain a watchful eye on the federal government
A progressive income tax is Marxist and should not be implimented

Actually I would bet you won't find any Marxist of some influence in politics of any country of the "Western" world.

The only departure I have from the above list is that I believe in universal health care for all Americans. Yes, that's liberal, but also moral and ethical. Most developed countries provide their citiizens with universal health care - even little Costa Rica. If we can spend billions on war, we can surely provide our citizens with health care.

Marxists don't generally publicize their philosophical commitments, especially if they have any political ambitions. It hasn't "PC" for folks to admit they believe in Socialist or Marxist politics for a long time. Marxists beliefs were extremely prevelant in academic life, about the time I left to work in government. I don't doubt in the least that many of my Marxist friends have now become Department Chairmen, and are still voting the Democratic ticket as being most nearly in line with their personal philosophy.

I wouldn't name any of those men, and women. Except for politics we were friends and colleages. There is no need for a witch hunt, Socialism and Marxism are so flawed, in my opinion, that they will always eventually fail on their own. The American dedication to personal liberty, initiative and the promise of owning property is strong, especially in the heart lands. The idea that government can and should enforce someone's ideas in search of Utopia doesn't play very well with Middle America.

Well, Cicero you do claim to be a conservative. Why does it so seldom show in your postings?

Agreed. I've argued this in other threads and have caught heck for it.
I have a childhood friend that turned into a Marxist sympathizing history professor with all kinds of degrees. I think he has finally changed his mind now, after wasting 30 years or more on it.

On another thread, I think the O'Bomba thread, cicerone suggests that the Democrats should run on "Clintonism." I asked what that meant and he said, "moderate."

My definition of Clintonism would be to run as a conservative and then govern as a liberal. Of course cicerone could point out that Clinton's Welfare reform was in fact conservative, but of course Clinton was dragged kicking and screaming to sign the Republicans Welfare Reform package.

Ashman, Show me how Bushco's actions reflect those of a "conservative," besides his bible-thumping? Conservatism today is a sham.

I'll say this about the few folks I've known who consider themselves either Marxists...or near-Marxists...

...and that is that they seem and act with a great deal more sincerity...and in general seem to be more honest and less hypocritical than many, many, many of the people I know who label themselves American conservatives.

Fact is, take away the pretend Christians who consider themselves American conservatives rather than the hypocrites most are...and the red-neck scum that are the population of the most disgusting organizations we have in our country...

...and American conservatism is a tiny minority of the population.

In any case, American conservatism served our country best when it was the loyal opposition riding herd on the dip-shyts of the left. The moment conservatives came to power...rather than simply serving as an ameliorating fragment...they ceased serving our country...and began its moral and ethical disintegration. They went from a net positive influence on our being to a net negative one.

I despise American conservatism for that.

Right on (for the most part), Frank!

American conservatives used to believe in a small federal gov't with relatively little intrusion in local (and personal) matters.

The current crew is in our business (or wants to be) in so many regards. Just compare Goldwater with Bush...

Pardon me for also answering, but speaking for myself, I never considered Bush as a true conservative on all issues even before he was elected, and his presidency has certainly not changed that opinion. I am not sure he has ever claimed to be a conservative on all issues. If you can come up with a quote, wherein he indicated that he was, I would be interested.

Most conservatives voted for Bush, simply because he came the closest to their philosophy on some issues, in comparison to Gore or Kerry that represent virtually nothing of their values. Nobody should construe this support into believing that Bush is a perfect example of the conservative philosophy in America.

okie, Who's talking about "perfect" anything? Try living in the real world where politics is never pure anything. I didn't/don't care for Bush or Kerry. I would have voted for John McCain.