Iran Air Strikes Growing in Probability

Anon did start such a thread of explanation, Asherman. He, mysteryman, and myself posted on it, and it disappeared within about 45 minutes.

why?

Setanta: You are correct, it is a train wreck! But I don't think I am the cause. Most people on Abuzz know that I was a nurse in Vietnam...served in 1965-1966 and our hospital took care of the 1st Cavalry during the Ia Drang Valley Campaign. I am anything but anti-military. I just want it used properly. I get my dander up when anyone even suggests that the outcome should have been....fill in the blanks....other than what it was. It was another unnecessary war. LBJ didn't want to lose face, MacNamara didn't want to lose face. Remind anyone of anything?

I just hope beyond anything that someone will stop George and company from another march of madness.

So, Asherman, if I did leave the topic, and I don't think I did, it wasn't far. BTW, I am 64 and female! I try to be diplomatic on the boards here, but I have a different view of war after what I was through. Our young men and women deserve better than this administration. And don't tell me they are there so the terrorists are not fighting us here. If anything, we might have affected the election of this madman in Iran with our Axis of Evil sloganeering and swagger. We certainly have upped the ante of Al Queda in Iraq...we are very good at enlistment of terrorists and not very good at enlisting our young men and women officers.

Just like the Scots fought for England after Culloden because they had no livelihood after the Great Improvement, we enlist young men and women who come for the most part from the poor and disadvantaged in the enlisted forces. With the threat of war with Iran, I doubt our officer corps will be a willing one.

Enough....I just want to enjoy my garden and my dogs and not worry endlessly about this.

Why? What was there in a thread apparently intended to set the record straight that could get it yanked? Here is a person whose quoted words seem terribly at odds with who we are led to believe them to be. The plain words would have cause the speaker to be shunned in polite company. If the words quoted do not reflect the speakers meaning, then he should be allowed to defend himself and correct the record.

I didn't blame you, VNN. I served three years in the United States Army Medical Corps. I served as a field medic, and, when they found out i was actually literate, as a medical records and reports specialist. I served in a Surgical Hospital (MA) and an Evac Hospital. I saw enough to convince me of the justice of my views of war. I don't say that no one who did not serve has no right to comment--i do have contempt for war hawks who never have gone in harm's way, and who never will go in harm's way, who loudly rattle the sabre. I exempt Asherman from such a criticism, because i don't see him as expressing war mongering opinions. I think he is wrong, which he knows, but we manage to be civil to one another.

I find it interesting that you are saying that only those that have served have the "right" to voice opinions,yet you immediately attack those on the right that say the same thing.

You attack those thatr have served that disagree with you,denigrating their service or their experience.
If they support Bush or the war,you call them "brainwashed" or whatever other names you feel will help your cause.

Asherman,
anon will claim that his comments are being taken out of context.
If required,I will post a link right to his original comments,and the thread they are on,so everyone can see for themselves if his comments are being taken out of context or not.

well exactly what the hell does earn one the right to come on this public opinion forum and express their opinions?

Meanwhile, back in Iran, and America's administration....

you trying to get it back on track deb? Its already a wreck..official.

VNurse, I'm sure you did your best for our soldiers in Vietnam, and that your views are sincere. However, your views about Vietnam, war in general and this Administration are not universally accepted. At the time, I opposed our involvment in Vietnam, but have changed my mind after years of reflection and study. You believe that President Bush and the United States are involved in an un-necessary war, I and many others disagree with your views. As a nurse I'm sure your war experiences in Vietnam were quite different from the experience of today's military leaders fighting a different sort of war. Even among Vietnam Vets, especially among career officers, not all would concur with your opinions.

Go. Enjoy your garden, as I try to enjoy mine.

Okay, Deb!

Sure.

But it is an important topic.....and it is interesting to see those who claim to support troops mobbing one of our members who has made no secret of his post traumatic symptoms, gained in a horrifying situation, a common manifestation of which is outbursts of anger that are difficult to control.


Some of what Anon has said re rights to speak is simply silly, and I have no doubt he regrets the Tillerman/death to troops comments.


Nonetheless, as one who has suffered horribly in an especially disgusting war, it ought not to be that hard to see why he is so impassioned about the Iraq situation, nor is his point that it is easy to trumpet the rightness of horror when you will not have to suffer, it such an opaque or outrageous one, though made in an exaggerated manner, which I imagine Anon might not use in cooler moments.




I do not want to matronise or psychologise Anon's outbursts, so I do not want to say much more.....but it is ugly to see such mobbing of one who is cllearly in his tone and expression quite clearly manifesting the damage caused by the horror he has endured....a horror which has happened and is happening to troops currently in service in Iraq now (not to mention civilians) and which there are good reasons for our veterans here to be especially aware of and sensitive to.


To point out the logical errors and inconsistencies in such utterances is, in my view, quite fair.

That has been done on this thread, as far as I can see, several times.

The repetition, especially in the tone adopted by some here, amounts to mobbing, as far as I can see, especially when the emotional effect on Anon of its continuance is clearly visible.

The mobbing....while doubtless those participating in it will not see it as such...is ugly, and demonstrates little understanding (at least in those who politically oppose them) of the effects of the wars they support in those who suffered the worst of them. Not perhaps so very supportive of our troops in wounded and affected vivo as on paper, perhaps.

I wonder if any of those partaking in it really believe that Anon applauds the death of those he once fought with, rather than that, in the grip of emotions intensified by the clinical manifestations of the horror he has experienced, he spoke in an exaggerated manner.

Of course I may well be wrong, but, since Anon believes he was wounded by deliberate friendly fire because his job was to expose corruption by some of these same troops, he may have a less sanguine view of the unerring nobility of the US soldier....



Anyhoo, I have said all I am going to say.


Lol...now I shall be ripped apart by the mob too.

C'est la vie.


Sorry Anon....I hope you are not insulted by what I said.

wow, amazing in fact. No idea rabbits could have such insight.

Lets all remember we are shaped formed damaged and experienced by life...and death.

An Internet connection and some free time?

Certainly not one's prior military experiences.

Mobbing? What are you going on about?



Yeah, I do ... because while I've seen his words, I've not seen any reasonable explanation from him for them, and certainly no expressions of regret that they were made.



It depends ... do I constitute "the mob," IYO?

What is your opinion on that one Tico?

I'm asking you ... you're the one talking about "mobs." I don't understand your "mobbing" remarks .... what constitutes a "mob," to you?

Was it "mobbing" when F4F applauded one of Anon's many posts calling me a chickenhawk/chickenheart? Does it take more than two to "mob"? Or is it only "mobbing" if you perceive the "victim" to be weak or functionally disabled in some way?

Holy Mother of Pearl. I leave the thread alone for a day and it explodes like a stick of dy-no-mite. I want some of what you people are smoking. I feel left out.

Meanwhile, to detour momentarily to the purpose of the thread, which I don't believe was a pissing contest, was it?


I am reading a Foreign Policy article (which I can't link to because I have the digital edition...I can't access a web edition of this one yet) which is saying that America will be restrained by the fear of huge oil price rises from attacking Iran...

It is also saying that , of course, we are increasingly unable to act politically and diplomatically to foster human rights etc in oil rich countries because of similar fears...and that blathering about democratising without a serious commitment to finding oil alternatives is pissing in the wind...