Piffka,
Loved the story about the "Transylvanian" guy and the hubby sitting quietly while you told it!!
Ooh the anticipation.Just HOW did it go with Francie and husband at the wedding??
I was intrigued to see how an advice columnist would answer, but I think she was way off in suggesting the woman turn herself into a sexual jungle-gym to lure the wandering eyes back. I bolded the offensive statements. Anybody else have comments about Coco's response? I think we all did better...for whispering sweet nothings. In essence, you need to reward his positive behaviors while ignoring the negative ones.
A key component of your strategy should be to shore up your own self-confidence. If you are convinced of your own worth, no amount of eyeballing can rile you. Any time we go out in public, we're bound to see people who are younger, cuter and better dressed than we are. So what? They don't possess our special gifts and qualities. So join your beau in observing the local talent with bemused detachment, then move on. Hopefully he'll lose patience with this silly game. If not, you might want to exchange him for a gentler breed.
(I do think she has a point with the italicised, though it may not reflect on Francie's situation.)
That's how our brains are wired...deal with it!
OK, let me make sure I have it right.
1) Man is caddish, by ogling other wimmin in front of wife/gfriend.
2) Woman should react by rewarding man with hot sex.
I think re-wiring is preferable. What to do.......?
I like the column you provided, sofia.
I read it as 'don't sweat the small stuff' which is what looking around is. I prefer to be with men who are still alive and curious enough to continue to look - i don't want to have to check for a pulse. I look around as well, and I know i'm not giving it up. I'm quite comfortable and confident with myself. I never worried about man with whom I was in a serious relationship (does 17 years count?) leaving for someone else. Of course there are more beautiful woman - there are also more handsome men. But he always came back to me (until i convinced him there was no point).
The part you hi-lited just seemed to suggest, to me, that it's a waste of energy to fret about what he's looking at, when he's yours - and the energy can be better used in having a good time together.
and definitely a no-go to the 'training' suggested by some. It can be a definite relationship-killer. mrs. hamburger always said that you shouldn't expect to change your partner. You pick your partner for who they are, not for what you plan to upholster them with.
I think there are two strands here. SHOULD someone feel upset if their S.O. ogles others while they're together? Probably not. It's not very rational, it doesn't really do any good.
But DO people feel upset? Yeah, often, and I think that's understandable. And once you have a situation in which someone is upset, it becomes a question of how to handle that. For someone who is already upset, it doesn't really work to just, like, decide to not be upset. (I dunno, maybe that does work for some people! If so, I'm impressed.)
Slappy, in terms of the hard-wired stuff, pshaw. You can say (I wouldn't, but Mr. 99% chance of sex with a bagel might) that men are hard-wired to jump any attractive woman they see, but that doesn't mean it's very polite for them to do so while out to dinner with their gf. ("She bent over to pick up her fork! What did you expect???") I mean, they CAN, sure, go ahead, good luck (as long as the attractive woman in question is amenable), but they sure shouldn't be surprised if the gf then administers a swift kick and stomps out forever.
Ogling is several steps less offensive than that, of course, but it still ain't polite. If a guy has a tendency to ogle, knows it's impolite, communicates with his gf about ogling tendencies, gf waves her hand and says "Oh no problem, I do it too", excellent. Happy ogling.
That's not what we're talking about here.
That said, I don't know what my advice IS. All of this behavior management stuff gives me the willies -- I don't like it, though I know it works just fine for some people. I can't quite imagine getting to the point where you are already married but this is an issue. Did it develop after the marriage? He thinks he doesn't have to try so hard?
At this point I guess I would address the "denial" part -- just catch him doing it several times in a row, then force the issue. "See? That's what I mean."... "And that."... "And that." Once it's clear that he can't claim he doesn't do it, at all, then talk about it. That he can ogle as much as he wants when he's not with you, but it really bothers you when you're together. That kind of thing.
But this is definitely not one size fits all, so do whatever feels right to you.
Curious about how the wedding thing went.
Good luck.
OK, so this was on the screen and hubby saw it and he has some ideas:
(This may all be rendered moot by the wedding adventure)
Your hubby expects to get in trouble for ogling, so doesn't want to own up. He (my hubby -- known as E.G. henceforth) thinks it would work better to give him some sort of in, some way to show that you don't think he's a horrible person for ogling, per se, you'd just like to have things change in the way he notices women when he's WITH you. That's more finite and workable than "ogling is bad." E.G. thinks there needs to be some transition time between total ogling all the time and nice respectful discreet behind-the-sunglasses ogling.
There's more but I gotta go and I already wrote a ton up there so I'll wait for the update and see if you're interested in the rest.
You know this is funny! I missed this topic and was talking a little to Rae about it. See I'm a massive people watcher - it doesn't matter if yer a man or woman - I just gotta see how the the package got assembled differently by the master (nature or nurture). It's like being in a big Ol'variety art store. I like admiring art, could be simple or abstract. Just somthing to be appreciated. Think sex nope - sex appeal yep. Lust nope - I have no desire to benefit at the expense of others. I am content and exercise some sort of self-control, but then again observation is required, it's just what you do with it.
Francie,
Send your hubby an email with a link to this thread. Ask him for his thoughts on the issue and what he thinks about the advice given.
If that doesn't help get the conversation going and get him to realize how you feel, I'm not sure what else will.
I think you're making a mistake at the wedding, hon. You're stooping to an activity you don't like him doing so you can get even with him. It will turn into a one-upmanship battle with both sides having hurt feelings and no attempt at resolution.
Update on the wedding. I did not do anything offensive with anyone nor did I flirt. I just I just made sure I was in his line of vision when I made a point of looking at someone like I don't normally do. Let me tell you, he did not like it when the shoe was on the other foot !I understand men will look and women too, but it is the way he does in front of me that erks me ! You just don't treat your husband or wife that way ! Respect goes both ways and last night I made my point crystal clear and he got the message . I did not talk to him in an accusing way . I just laid out how it made me feel and in the end he agreed that he was not being respectful to me when he did that.He told me that it makes him feel uncomfortable when men stare at me,and that he thinks I am a very sexy woman.I don;t expect him not to look at a woman just use some comman sense .
Yay! Glad you guys talked about it.
Excellent. A little training works wonders, doesn't it?
Sounds like he now understands what it's like to see your beloved doing the extra-marital looking...
Good for you!!!!
YAY!!!! Women winning!!!!!
Congratulations, Francie!
(Haha I have to comment on how we are reacting -- I recommended just talking about it directly, and so am happy they talked, others were talking about doing some kind of training, and are happy Francie did some training. Whatever works!)
Way to go Francie!
Some times what is common sense to us makes no sense to others. We expect the other person to KNOW, then when we tell them, it's a huge shock to them!
Glad to hear it all turned out well Francie.
As for that advice columnist, I'd like to smack her on the head with the rag she writes advice for. She says the woman is encouraging the ogler because she is getting upset? What the heck is that? I think Coco is a man, that's what I think!
This is not a man-can't-help-himself piece of crap, it's a DISRESPECT thing!
Here's Heevens advice: Man ogles, is asked to stop, is aware it hurts his partner, next time he does it KICK HIM IN THE NUTS!
Result: He never does it again / He will seriously hesitate before doing it again / He will resort to wearing a cup while out in public with you.
I might be a little odd, but it doesn't bother me in the least that my husbad looks.
It just shows me that he is still alive and aware of his surroundings.
He teases me when I look, but its a playful tender kinda teasing.
When I playfully flirt with some one else.. and its blaitent that its not going to go anywhere, they ask me if D.H. will be angery with me. I just say, " no ofcourse not. I'm NOT Dead!
I check women out every now and then and angelina jolie never gets mad. She understands that I'm human.
