Is the story of Adam and Even real...or allegory?

I am engaged in a discussion with Hephzibah in another thread.

We were discussing the story of Adam and Eve and the happenings in Eden, when I asked the following question:

Quote:

In your opinion, are we dealing with allegory in this particular story...or are we dealing with "what is?" Do you consider this to be the way humanity was created...and that the first man and woman were actually placed in a garden with this tree we are discussing...or is this merely an allegory...a mythology of ancient peoples?

She replied:

Quote:

I believe this story is the truth, not a myth. Not something made up by a bunch of ancient people trying to explain existance or how we were created.

To be certain I understood her correctly, I followed up with:

Quote:

Just to be sure I understand you...

...you think the story as stated is the way humanity came into existence...and you think the god that created the world made humans the way described...and put them into a physical place (Eden) under the conditions stated...and that human existence proceeded from that point as described in the Bible?

I'm not sure how she is going to respond, (I'll ask her to post her response here) but I thought I'd take this opportunity to begin a thread dealing with the issue.


Who among the theists here (who accept the Bible as a special book of God) think the story of Adam and Eve in Eden...and the associated stories in Eden...represent the truth...the actuallity...the way that humans were created and the way the god of the Bible first interacted with them?

Who among you think it is merely allegory?

I'd enjoy discussing it.

How did Man go from stupid to smart overnight?

http://www3.iath.virginia.edu/anderson/iath.report.html

Here is a very good site on the origins of the Adam and Eve story. It is a scholar's site, not a joke or attack vehicle.

I believe it IS a real story.

Just once, I'd like to have an honest to goodness real discussion with you.

Frank,

So glad that you have all the answers.

It's gotta be tough, though. Having all that information up there and yet, can't seem to get everyone to agree with you?

Just once, I'd like to have an honest to goodness real discussion with you. You know, where you don't pick out a single word and twist it's meaning or use it in a different context that it's meant, kind of thing.

Just honest to goodness sharing of thoughts.

I'm beginning to think that won't happen with you.

That's not a slam at all, Frank. That's my observation.

I feel like when having a discussion with you one needs to be at the Harvard Law Library, The Vatican, and at a Fortune Teller's all at the same time. [/color]

Frank,

I am not going to argue with you. I have no desire to do that at all. But please, read what you just posted. Can't you see that your choice of words makes it sound like you think me a fool because you consider what I believe to be mythology? Your choice of words is telling me that you are right because I am a fool?

Frank, you are saying you think I am out of touch with reality? I just disagree with you, Frank. I don't consider you out of touch with reality due to that.

That last line about Harvard, etc., was a joke, Frank. Hence, the smiley.

spendius wrote:

So-if I understand this correctly,which I have a reputation for not doing,it seems,God designed an urge in us which was similar to that in monkeys when they are unable to stop themselves letting go of the nut in the jam-jar and their clenched fist can't escape the jam-jar to which is attached a rope which is attached,by a transport route,to a cage in a zoo or an animal experiment laboratory which has promised to save all our lives.

It seems a dirty trick to me.I'm not sure I could have resisted Eve's temptations.

How old was Adam supposed to be at the time?

You got it! We were actually descendants of monkeys. I can give several modern examples of throw-backs like George W. Bush.

RexRed wrote:

neologist wrote:

If God knew Adam and Eve were going to fail, even set them up to fail, that would make him the cause of their sin; and their punishment, rather than being justly deserved as a consequence of willful rebellion, is instead the torture of innocents by a despicable tyrant.

This is, however, apparently what many believe the bible says.

Well, I don't believe in that god,either.

God is light and in him is no darkness at all...

God knew that the devil would fall and also that Adam and Eve would commit the original sin.

Yet, God also knew that Jesus Christ would come and be obedient to the calling of redemption, justification, sanctification, reconciliation...

No wonder folks disbelieve.

Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

I am not going to argue with you. I have no desire to do that at all. But please, read what you just posted. Can't you see that your choice of words makes it sound like you think me a fool because you consider what I believe to be mythology? Your choice of words is telling me that you are right because I am a fool?

Frank, you are saying you think I am out of touch with reality? I just disagree with you, Frank. I don't consider you out of touch with reality due to that.

That last line about Harvard, etc., was a joke, Frank. Hence, the smiley.

You are out of control, MA.

Calm down.

neologist wrote:

Chumly wrote:

We have a classic logical fallacy because as soon as this all powerful all knowing and omnipotent god applies his power so-called "selectively" he would no longer be an all powerful all knowing and omnipotent god.

You will have to explain that.

Actually, you can't explain that because God's omnipotence implies free will. Take away that freedom and you take away omnipotence.

God's name, Jehovah, means 'he who causes to become'. He is described as being 'dynamic energy' (Isaiah 40:26). He often states that his purpose will not be defeated. Jesus taught his disciples to pray for his will to be done. (Matthew 6:10)

You cannot describe God in self limiting terms.

Adam was a violent drunk, and Eve a common or garden of Eden whore.