Is the story of Adam and Even real...or allegory?

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

neologist wrote:

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

I see no one decided to reply to my question, because if they did, they will see that even the definition of dying spiritualy does not match what happened when Adam and Eve ate the fruit.

Adam and Eve did die spiritually in the sense that they lost their moral perfection. Is that what you meant?

If Adam and Eve ate from the fruit (which you call it "sin"), they didn't have this "moral perfection" in the first place.

You probably think they didn't have free will, either.

neologist wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

neologist wrote:

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

I see no one decided to reply to my question, because if they did, they will see that even the definition of dying spiritualy does not match what happened when Adam and Eve ate the fruit.

Adam and Eve did die spiritually in the sense that they lost their moral perfection. Is that what you meant?

If Adam and Eve ate from the fruit (which you call it "sin"), they didn't have this "moral perfection" in the first place.

You probably think they didn't have free will, either.

If you're possibly telling me that free will was the MAIN cause for their "moral imperfection," don't you think they were not "perfect" to begin with? And what is perfection anyway? If they both were "morally perfect," why did they even sin?

(Apply all the logic you want, neo. It just doesn't make any sense.)

Sorry, Chum.

I was so sure that the mortality of animals was self evident.

I was so sure that because animals have no concept of infinite time, no free will and because they were placed under man's stewardship, that my point would be obvious.

Shows that I am not as smart as I thought.

A good definition of the word 'perfect' in this sense would be 'completely suited to the purpose for which it was intended'.

It may seem illogical that they would willfully give up their moral perfection. But, in effect, they did.

neologist wrote:

Sorry, Chum.

I was so sure that the mortality of animals was self evident.

I was so sure that because animals have no concept of infinite time, no free will and because they were placed under man's stewardship, that my point would be obvious.

Shows that I am not as smart as I thought.

Animals don't have free will? If a dog wants to bite you, and then bites you...did it do it because an external force got inside its head and told it to?

(I hope you meant that animals don't have self-awareness.)

I was so sure that because animals have no concept of infinite time, no free will and because they were placed under man's stewardship, that my point would be obvious.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

neologist wrote:

Sorry, Chum.

I was so sure that the mortality of animals was self evident.

I was so sure that because animals have no concept of infinite time, no free will and because they were placed under man's stewardship, that my point would be obvious.

Shows that I am not as smart as I thought.

Animals don't have free will? If a dog wants to bite you, and then bites you...did it do it because an external force got inside its head and told it to?

(I hope you meant that animals don't have self-awareness.)

Funny you should say that.

Considering the large number of a2kers who don't believe people have free will.

Isn't free will being able to make the choice between right and wrong?

Animals go by instinct or by training. [/color]

Also, can you honestly tell me you can conceive of 'infinite' time?

You have not disrupted my day in any way, Heph. I enjoy talking to you...and I enjoy your take on things. Obviously, we disagree on substantial issues...but so what!

I am just having a bit of trouble figuring out what you are asking of me here.

If you want to just drop it for now...no problem. When Neo gets back...you can listen in on the discussion...and comment at that time.

Animals go by instinct or by training.

How come no one ever asks me a question? I have expert knowledge, too, ya' know. Am I not enough of a bad boy for you ladies? Am I too stiff?

Whatever. I don't care.