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Is the story of Adam and Even real...or allegory?

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 03:50 pm
It's not intelligent design, it's wacky design. If "it" really knew what it was doing, it would not have designed this planet. Maybe this is a prototype and he is still working on getting the bugs out? (Well, there is a the fact that insects outnumber any other animal life). It begins with the ridiculous notion that Adam and Eve existed and why, pray tell, would it be in the Mesopotamian valley instead of the Yellow River? The locale is ironic -- isn't it?
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 03:51 pm
The extent that so many will go to rationalize the absurd only shows the overwhelming desire for religion and not a search for truth.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 03:53 pm
Still boils down to Voltaire (who did not, historically, repent on his deathbed):

If there were no God, it would be necessary to invent one.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:06 pm
Re: Is the story of Adam and Even real...or allegory?
Frank Apisa wrote:
Is the story of Adam and Even real...or allegory?
How 'bout Allegorical Realism?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:27 pm
LW wrote-

Quote:
Still boils down to Voltaire (who did not, historically, repent on his deathbed):

If there were no God, it would be necessary to invent one.


He is also reported to have said when offered Extreme Unction at the end-"Well-there's no sense in making any unnecessary enemies at this point".

But I can't vouch for it.I read that.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:29 pm
Pauligirl Wrote:

[quote]So, God actually caused man to sin by placing a restriction upon him which served no other purpose but to cause him to sin? And then punished all humankind for it.

Wow. P

[/quote]

Uh, no. That's not what I said nor implied. God did not cause anyone to sin. If someone leaves a peach pie on your dining room table and tells you not to eat it because it's for a party later and you eat it anyway, who is responsibile for you eating it? Your friend for leaving it or you for making the CHOICE to eat it?

The only difference in this scenario is that your friend doesn't know you actually will eat the pie. God knew Adam and Eve would eat the fruit. BUT if He had removed the tree he would have removed their CHOICE to decide what they wanted. If He had removed the tree He would have made them virtual robots. They would have no choice. They would have just as they were. Naked and walking in the garden with the animals and that's pretty much it.

What is this anyway? I thought a bunch of you out there were all for choice? :wink:
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:32 pm
I like what I said waaaaay better than this Volt Air guy.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:36 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
If someone leaves a peach pie.......
It's not "someone" it's an all-powerful all-knowing omnipotent god. This god already knows exactly what you are going to do with the pie.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:37 pm
Uh, Chumly, I think I already said that in my post about the pie. :wink:
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:38 pm
No you have not!
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:39 pm
Why? Because you impute choice.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:41 pm
Chumly wrote:
No you have not!


Momma Angel Wrote:

Quote:
The only difference in this scenario is that your friend doesn't know you actually will eat the pie. God knew Adam and Eve would eat the fruit. BUT if He had removed the tree he would have removed their CHOICE to decide what they wanted. If He had removed the tree He would have made them virtual robots. They would have no choice. They would have just as they were. Naked and walking in the garden with the animals and that's pretty much it.


YES! I HAVE! Razz
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:46 pm
Momma, that's rubbish. So what if you take away the choice? They still have the potential to choose and the free will to do so, it's just that they have nothing to choose.

To be able to choose and to be willing to choose are two different things.

Adam and Eve were capable of choice even before they ate from the fruit. Therefore, they were not virtual robots, because they had free will, the free will to eat or not to eat.

If I were to brainwash you and put you in a place where you couldn't vote for anyone except for one party, does that mean you have no free will? Does that mean you then become a robot, because you do not have a choice?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 04:49 pm
It's not eating peach pie which you will be put down for, it's crustaceans.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 05:02 pm
Wolfe,

The only thing is, there would have been nothing for them to actually choose had the tree not been there.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 05:15 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
YES! I HAVE! Razz
Nope Laughing Why? Because you impute choice when there is only the superficial illusion of choice at best.

Remember, it's an all-powerful all-knowing omnipotent god.

This god already knows exactly what you are going to do with the "pie", hence no choice.

God put the "pie" there, god already knows what you are going to do with the "pie".
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 05:28 pm
Nope is right, Chumly, but nope to you. God knew what their choice would eventually be, true. But, He let them make the choice. He did not cause them to make the choice. He did not use His power to force them to make the choice they did.

Adam and Eve were told not to do it. They did it. THEY did it. Not God. Just because God knows you will do something, it does not mean He makes you do it.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 05:34 pm
"He," "She," or "It" lacking the intelligence to know that placing temptation in front of his creations without any instruction other than "don't eat it," could easily be the insanely stupid entity that assembled this crazy, mixed-up planet that despite it's horrors we all manage to live through it and salvage some happiness. Remarkable. And not believable.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 05:36 pm
Randomness terrifies some people -- religion is one way to explain the randomness.

-Fran Leibowitz
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 05:42 pm
Lightwizard,

When your parents told you not to do something did you always ask for some long, drawn out explanation or did you just accept they were the parent and they make the rules?

Now, I have a question. If Adam and Eve is allegorical why is Adam referred to in Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one MAN, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.......http://www.smileys.ws/smls/yahoo/00000033.gif
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