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Is the story of Adam and Even real...or allegory?

 
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2006 05:52 pm
Chumly wrote:
Jason Proudmoore wrote:
If aliens came here from another planet, what would be the first question they'd ask humanity?
Can I get copies of I Love Lucy?
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I would imagine they would monitor us from space for quite some time so may not have any burning first question. But if they did it would probably be related to how to understand our languages.


"Do YOU still believe in God?"

Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2006 07:38 pm
I'll believe in whatever you want baby!
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As long you are 25, 5' 8", waist length auburn hair, breasts that sit up and beg, avid exercise nut……
0 Replies
 
Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2006 08:12 pm
Jason Proudmoore wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Jason Proudmoore wrote:
If aliens came here from another planet, what would be the first question they'd ask humanity?
Can I get copies of I Love Lucy?
.
.
.
.
I would imagine they would monitor us from space for quite some time so may not have any burning first question. But if they did it would probably be related to how to understand our languages.


"Do YOU still believe in God?"

Twisted Evil


How 'bout "What's a god?"
P
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2006 08:20 pm
Pauligirl wrote:
How 'bout "What's a god?"
a) To know the mind of god is to be god, thus knowledge is godlike.

b) Any sufficiently technologically advanced being so as to be indistingualbe from god.

c) My dog, as god came to me in my dreams and told me he was going to become Daisy incarnate, for purposes only the mind of dog can know.
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2006 08:25 pm
Guys, the punch line refers that the aliens have been here before, and that they are making fun of us...get it?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Mar, 2006 08:29 pm
Sorry what was that?
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<picks auburn pubic hair out of mouth>
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 12:12 am
Chumly wrote:
neologist wrote:
Death is the consequence of sin. Animals can't sin because they don't have, (You guessed it!) free will.
What you say does not add up:

The Bible doesn't say that dogs go to heaven, neither does it say they don't.

If as you say "death is the consequence of sin" and if as you say "animals can't sin" then again how can dogs die if they can't sin?

If you are going to say that "death is the consequence of sin" and "animals can't sin" then you are going to need to explain how "death reigned"……"over them that had not sinned" as per Romans 5:14.

You would also need to show where in the bible it says that animals died before Adam sinned.

You would also need to show where in the bible it says that animals are not affected by the consequence of sin as I have shown that animals are affected by the consequence of sin as per Romans 5:14.

Further I contest your claim that animals don't have free will vis-a-vis the chimpanzee

Free will:
n.
1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

How can we assess chimp intelligence?
- They make tools and use them to acquire foods, for social displays, etc.
- They have sophisticated hunting strategies that require cooperation, and allow animals to achieve influence and rank by sharing meat.
- They are highly status conscious and manipulative, capable of deception.
- They are analytical and problem-solvers, clearly capable of insight and complex "cognitive performance" in both the wild and in captivity, and particularly adept at analyzing relative relationships.
- Language experiments have shown that chimps are creative, can learn to use symbols (and teach them to others) and understand aspects of human language including some relational syntax, concepts of number and numerical sequence.

neologist wrote:
They don't. They just die.
Err Neo......what's goring on here? We 'know' there are horses in heaven (Rev 19.11, 2 Kings 2.11). That rather puts a kibosh on your ill conceived notion that animals "just die".
Looks like I've been the victim of a senior moment.

You'll get to know what I mean when you get to be my age.

Then, when you get to be Frank's age, you'll forget all about it; so don't worry. :wink:

'Course you can have them at any age; as your response indicates. Smile
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 12:15 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . It is not necessary for them to be right to show your original asssertion to be nonsense, Neo....and I am not "assserting they are right." All they have to do is to POSSIBLY be right. All they have to do is assert a POSSIBLE worse case scenario. . .
. . . .
That's another point, Frank. It is NOT possible for them to be right.



Okay...I'll bite.


Why is it not possible for them to be right?????
Sorry to keep you waiting. I'm being disttracted by life. Smile
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 06:36 am
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . It is not necessary for them to be right to show your original asssertion to be nonsense, Neo....and I am not "assserting they are right." All they have to do is to POSSIBLY be right. All they have to do is assert a POSSIBLE worse case scenario. . .
. . . .
That's another point, Frank. It is NOT possible for them to be right.



Okay...I'll bite.


Why is it not possible for them to be right?????
Sorry to keep you waiting. I'm being disttracted by life. Smile


Right!!!

And the fact that your comment makes absolutely no sense is not a player, right?

Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 07:52 am
I see no one decided to reply to my question, because if they did, they will see that even the definition of dying spiritualy does not match what happened when Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 08:00 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . It is not necessary for them to be right to show your original asssertion to be nonsense, Neo....and I am not "assserting they are right." All they have to do is to POSSIBLY be right. All they have to do is assert a POSSIBLE worse case scenario. . .
. . . .
That's another point, Frank. It is NOT possible for them to be right.



Okay...I'll bite.


Why is it not possible for them to be right?????
Sorry to keep you waiting. I'm being disttracted by life. Smile


Right!!!

And the fact that your comment makes absolutely no sense is not a player, right?

Twisted Evil
Well; hi there.

First of all, let me point out that the consequence God warned of for disobedience was death. Nothing more, nothing less. If hell was part of the deal, that would have been a good time to let folks know, IMHO.

I know you will wiggle out of this, but I enjoy watching you do it. Then I'll throw you a few more bones.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 08:03 am
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
I see no one decided to reply to my question, because if they did, they will see that even the definition of dying spiritualy does not match what happened when Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
Adam and Eve did die spiritually in the sense that they lost their moral perfection. Is that what you meant?
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 08:08 am
neologist wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
I see no one decided to reply to my question, because if they did, they will see that even the definition of dying spiritualy does not match what happened when Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
Adam and Eve did die spiritually in the sense that they lost their moral perfection. Is that what you meant?


If Adam and Eve ate from the fruit (which you call it "sin"), they didn't have this "moral perfection" in the first place.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 08:15 am
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . It is not necessary for them to be right to show your original asssertion to be nonsense, Neo....and I am not "assserting they are right." All they have to do is to POSSIBLY be right. All they have to do is assert a POSSIBLE worse case scenario. . .
. . . .
That's another point, Frank. It is NOT possible for them to be right.



Okay...I'll bite.


Why is it not possible for them to be right?????
Sorry to keep you waiting. I'm being disttracted by life. Smile


Right!!!

And the fact that your comment makes absolutely no sense is not a player, right?

Twisted Evil
Well; hi there.

First of all, let me point out that the consequence God warned of for disobedience was death. Nothing more, nothing less. If hell was part of the deal, that would have been a good time to let folks know, IMHO.


Try to get your brain in gear, Neo.

Just because your silly Bible does not allow your idiot god to inflict more dire consequences than "just going away"...or at least, in the opinion of the sect you belong to your silly Bible does not allow your idiot god to inflict more dire consequences...

...does not mean there cannot be more dire consequences.

You said they (the people who posit more dire consequences) CANNOT BE RIGHT.

Some of them don't think your idiot god...is GOD. They posit a GOD...or a god...who can and will inflict greater, more dire consequencs...than you suggest.

So now...back to my question: Why can't they be right???

Why MUST YOU be right...and they cannot be???

Why can only your silly, baseless guesses be right...and not their silly, baseless guesses?


Quote:
I know you will wiggle out of this, but I enjoy watching you do it. Then I'll throw you a few more bones.


I am thoroughly enjoying your silliness, Neo...and I appreciate you taking the time to provide the laughs.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 09:21 am
Jason Proudmoore wrote:
neologist wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
I see no one decided to reply to my question, because if they did, they will see that even the definition of dying spiritualy does not match what happened when Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
Adam and Eve did die spiritually in the sense that they lost their moral perfection. Is that what you meant?


If Adam and Eve ate from the fruit (which you call it "sin"), they didn't have this "moral perfection" in the first place.


Exactly. Furthermore, how does gaining the knowledge of good and evil make them morally imperfect? Surely, in order to be morally perfect, you must know the difference between good and evil, so you can avoid that which is morally wrong?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 09:24 am
Come, come, come gentlemen . . . one would think you expect rational, internal consistency in religionist fairy tales . . . which you ought to know is a completely unreasonable expectation on your part.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 09:29 am
Well, they insist on being treated as rational, logical people, so I treat them as such. In expecting them to be rational, logical people, I alsp expect them to be reasonable and logical.

It's not my fault if they don't meet the standards they themselves tried to set.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 09:44 am
LOL
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 09:50 am
Hm, my language skills kind of imploded back there. Let me rephrase it, so it makes a little bit more sense.

Religionists expect to be treated as rational, logical people. Why else this obsession with trying to justify their religious beliefs through scientific means? (It would also explain the unbelievable amount of nonsensical jargon in the posts of the religious lunatics that tend to post here every now and then).

So, I treat them as rational, logical people. In return, I expect them to be rational and logical and reasonable.

Don't blame me for expecting them to be rational, reasonable and logical, if they're the ones who want to be thought of as such.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Mar, 2006 09:51 am
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
Are we still debating what God meant when he said, "you will die"? Goodness... Well, let's get one thing straight.

What does it mean to die spiritually?


A severed spiritual connection between God and man.
0 Replies
 
 

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