Is the story of Adam and Even real...or allegory?

neologist wrote:

Pauligirl wrote:

neologist wrote:

Whatever God sets out to do, he will acomplish.

Judges (1:19) And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Too bad, no chariots of marshmellows.

P

I think the word 'he', in red might make it more understandable. Who was it that failed?

HE who the Lord was with.
As in "With the Lord, all things are possible.

We can make it any color you want, but it won't change it.
P

Momma Angel wrote:

Terry,

Sorry. I missed your question earlier. God told the truth. Satan lied to Eve when he told her she would not die. She's dead.

How do you know that Eve is dead, since the Bible does not say that she ever died? You would think that if death was the direct result of her choice of knowledge over ignorance, God might consider it worth mentioning. God said they would die on the same day they ate the fruit, which certainly did not happen. We know that Eve lived at least 130 years, since that's how old Adam was when Seth was born, and they had other sons and daughters as well.

Somehow, "the fruit is tasty and you will gain wisdom, live an extraordinarily long and productive life, and die in a thousand years or so if you eat it" does not seem like a very effective deterrent.

Why do you suppose God failed to tell them the real consequences of eating the fruit: a society ruled by men, pain in childbirth, sweat and painful toil to produce food from cursed ground?

I also asked if you knew of anywhere in the Bible that Satan actually lied. He did not lie in the book of Job, but responded to God's boasts of Job's righteousness by giving his opinion that Job would curse God if he were subjected to misfortune. Even though Job was the most blameless man on earth (at that time), God allowed Satan to cause his 10 children to be killed, almost all of his servants to be slaughtered, his property destroyed, and his flesh infested with a horrible disease, just to prove the point. With gods like that, who needs enemies?

neologist wrote:

They don't. They just die.

Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned. After the similitude of Adams transgression."

Death extended to the animal kingdom because sin had effected the entire Creation. Including the animals man had dominion over. Clearly this refers to the animals that man had dominion over. Animals are without sin, yet are effected by the consequence of sin.

RexRed wrote:

Are you telling me parallel lines don't exist?

That depends on your perspective and the tools you use to assess it.

RexRed wrote:

Then what are strings in the string theory?

Are you asking me to teach you about super string theory? That's rather beyond the pale. Learn about yourself and we'll discuss.
http://www.superstringtheory.com/

RexRed wrote:

Parallel lines maybe?

Are you arguing that strings are infinite in length and therefore it must mean that no two parallel lines can ever intersect under any conditions? I would love to hear your arguments to demonstrate this.

Death is the consequence of sin. Animals can't sin because they don't have, (You guessed it!) free will.

They don't. They just die.

talk72000 wrote:

The Hebrews were goat herders and part-time bandits.

A more and more commonly-held view among historians (who have no stake in promoting Judaism or Christianity) is that Jewish "Kings" such as Solomon ran a small-time "protection racket" with the caravans which plied the route from the head of the Red Sea and the Punic cites of Tyre and Sidon. That view sees the Phoenicians as tolerating some silly pretentions on the part of the Jews, so long as they protected the caravans on their rather brief trip overland. It would have been easier and made more sense from the Punic point of view to tolerate the Jews and pay them a modest fee rather than to be obliged to deal with tribal bandits, and to attempt to run them to ground in the Judean hills.

The measurements give for the Temple and Solomons palace are pathetically modest. The measurements for the original Temple in Jerusalem had a ground floor smaller than the main gun deck of an eighteenth century United States frigate such as Constitution. Only in the eyes of the Hebrews and the self-deluded minds of modern Christians does a silly expression such as "Solomon in all his glory" resonate. Basically, they were the Semitic hillbillies of their time and region.

]Not all of us are capable of growing a brain, Frank.

Let's go over your ridiculous assertion one more time:

Frank Apisa wrote:

But others have made guesses that "if a god exists" the god could make things much, much worse for people after death than simply returning to nothingness.

Are you asserting they must be right? Are you guessing they must be right? Or are you flat out of your mind?

I disagree with them Frank because the bible does not support their belief.

You offer your blind guesses like they are certainties.

Quote:

Somehow, "the fruit is tasty and you will gain wisdom, live an extraordinarily long and productive life, and die in a thousand years or so if you eat it" does not seem like a very effective deterrent.

Why do you suppose God failed to tell them the real consequences of eating the fruit: a society ruled by men, pain in childbirth, sweat and painful toil to produce food from cursed ground?

Is that what God actually said? Hmmmm. I don't think so. Maybe you should look up what He actually did say, Terry.

Do you honestly think Eve has been alive these what? Some 6,000 years? We are supposed to have some common sense

Do you honestly think Eve has been alive these what? Some 6,000 years? We are supposed to have some common sense, Terry. I think it would be wise to apply it to this.

Terry wrote:

Somehow, "the fruit is tasty and you will gain wisdom, live an extraordinarily long and productive life, and die in a thousand years or so if you eat it" does not seem like a very effective deterrent.

Why do you suppose God failed to tell them the real consequences of eating the fruit: a society ruled by men, pain in childbirth, sweat and painful toil to produce food from cursed ground?

Is that what God actually said? Hmmmm. I don't think so. Maybe you should look up what He actually did say, Terry.

I'm confused, Terry. You think God lied when He said Adam and Eve would die. Well, they died. They died spiritually that day and eventually their bodies died. Satan told them they would NOT die. Now, did he mean they would not die spiritually or did he mean they would not die physically?

. . . It is not necessary for them to be right to show your original asssertion to be nonsense, Neo....and I am not "assserting they are right." All they have to do is to POSSIBLY be right. All they have to do is assert a POSSIBLE worse case scenario. . .
. . . .

Frank Apisa wrote:

. . . It is not necessary for them to be right to show your original asssertion to be nonsense, Neo....and I am not "assserting they are right." All they have to do is to POSSIBLY be right. All they have to do is assert a POSSIBLE worse case scenario. . .
. . . .

That's another point, Frank. It is NOT possible for them to be right.

If aliens came here from another planet, what would be the first question they'd ask humanity?

Setanta wrote:

talk72000 wrote:

The Hebrews were goat herders and part-time bandits.

A more and more commonly-held view among historians (who have no stake in promoting Judaism or Christianity) is that Jewish "Kings" such as Solomon ran a small-time "protection racket" with the caravans which plied the route from the head of the Red Sea and the Punic cites of Tyre and Sidon. That view sees the Phoenicians as tolerating some silly pretentions on the part of the Jews, so long as they protected the caravans on their rather brief trip overland. It would have been easier and made more sense from the Punic point of view to tolerate the Jews and pay them a modest fee rather than to be obliged to deal with tribal bandits, and to attempt to run them to ground in the Judean hills.

The measurements give for the Temple and Solomons palace are pathetically modest. The measurements for the original Temple in Jerusalem had a ground floor smaller than the main gun deck of an eighteenth century United States frigate such as Constitution. Only in the eyes of the Hebrews and the self-deluded minds of modern Christians does a silly expression such as "Solomon in all his glory" resonate. Basically, they were the Semitic hillbillies of their time and region.

Ohhhh...are you gonna be in trouble with their god, Set.

One of the biggest question is where did Cain's wife come from?