Iraq has been with us for so long that many people are now immune to seeing the killing floor on the tv news every night. For some it's become just another soap opera. At least Tinseltown would of devised a happy ending.
Instead we live in a world that's gradualy being destroyed by greed, death is just another by-product of that greed
Bella Dea wrote:Intrepid wrote:Bella Dea wrote:Intrepid wrote:
The real answer is that it has increased under the leadership of GW Bush.
What has increased? Terrorism in other countries?
You are now getting into straw man territory. You know that you were referring to Iraqi deaths under Sadamm Hussein. How many Iraqi deaths is GWB responsible for?
Innocent civilians? Or those with guns ready to shoot US soldiers?
I fully support the men and women who shoot down anyone pointing a gun at them. Even if I don't support the reason they are there, I fully support their right to come home in one piece.
The soldiers should not be there as part of an invasion. Since they are, they are at war and that is that. sadly.
au1929 wrote:Last update - 19:36 23/02/2006
Ahmadinejad warns Israel over blast in Iraq mosque
By Reuters
Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warned Western powers like the United States and Israel that they would face the wrath of Muslims following the devastating bombing of a Shi'ite Muslim shrine in Iraq.
Echoing Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Ahmadinejad pinned the blame for Wednesday's Samarra shrine bombing on "Zionists" and foreign forces in Iraq.{Foreign forces meaning the US}
"These heinous acts are committed by a group of Zionists and occupiers that have failed. They have failed in the face of Islam's logic and justice," Ahmadinejad said in a speech broadcast live on state television.
But be sure, you will not be saved from the wrath and power of the justice-seeking nations by resorting to such acts," he said to cries of "Death to America" "Death to Israel" from a crowd of thousands of supporters in central Iran.
Khamenei, who has the last word on all state matters in Shi'ite Muslim Iran, on Wednesday urged Shi'ites not to take revenge on Sunni Muslims for the attack on the Samarra shrine.
"There are definitely some plots to force Shi'ites to attack the mosques and other properties respected by the Sunnis," he said. "Any measure to contribute to that direction is helping the enemies of Islam and is forbidden by Sharia," he added.
Khamenei ordered a week of national mourning in Iran over the bombing.
In Beirut, Lebanon's Hezbollah group called for Muslim unity in the wake of the mosque bombing.
"I tell the Americans, the Zionists and the criminals who committed yesterday's crime in Samarra that all your aims will fail," Hezbollah chief Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah told a rally attended by thousands of Lebanese Shi'ites in the southern suburb of Beirut.
"I tell them that this (Muslim) nation will not be torn apart ... It will not fall for the tricks of the occupier."
Hezbollah, a Shi'ite guerrilla group backed by Iran and Syria, has opposed Washington's role in Iraq. The United States lists Hezbollah as a terrorist group and has called for it to be disarmed in line with a 2004 UN Security Council resolution.
His statements would be comical if there weren't so many idiots ready to believe him and kill because he says so. He probably ordered the bombing of the shrine himself.
oldandknew wrote:Maybe it's time that USA, UK & other interlopers quit Iraq, stayed at home & stopped playing World Cop & simply kept our noses out of it.
It's impossible to impose western democratic ideology on these Arab/Muslim nations. They don't want to be clones of Western culture. Let 'em get on with their own way of things. They can stay out of our way & we can stay out of theirs.
Meanwhile we'd better change our shoes, pronto
Yeah, why shouldn' they have a brutal, fascist dictatorship if they want? Imagine us trying to give each citizen a voice in the government.
Brandon9000 wrote:oldandknew wrote:Maybe it's time that USA, UK & other interlopers quit Iraq, stayed at home & stopped playing World Cop & simply kept our noses out of it.
It's impossible to impose western democratic ideology on these Arab/Muslim nations. They don't want to be clones of Western culture. Let 'em get on with their own way of things. They can stay out of our way & we can stay out of theirs.
Meanwhile we'd better change our shoes, pronto
Yeah, why shouldn' they have a brutal, fascist dictatorship if they want? Imagine us trying to give each citizen a voice in the government.
When was the US tasked to right the wrongs of this world???
au1929 wrote:Brandon9000 wrote:oldandknew wrote:Maybe it's time that USA, UK & other interlopers quit Iraq, stayed at home & stopped playing World Cop & simply kept our noses out of it.
It's impossible to impose western democratic ideology on these Arab/Muslim nations. They don't want to be clones of Western culture. Let 'em get on with their own way of things. They can stay out of our way & we can stay out of theirs.
Meanwhile we'd better change our shoes, pronto
Yeah, why shouldn' they have a brutal, fascist dictatorship if they want? Imagine us trying to give each citizen a voice in the government.
When was the US tasked to right the wrongs of this world???
Never. We invaded only for reasons having to do with our security. But since we did take out the old government, it's only right to get another one started before we leave, and since we believe that no government is valid that does not give the people a voice in their government, that is the kind we are helping them to create.
You're such an idealist, Brandon. So refreshing. I'm just curious: What it they choose a pro-Iranian group to run Iraq? It's entirely possible they will...
Life in Iraq doesn't seem to be any better now than it was under Saddam at the end of the last century. Still a lot of death taking place. The country is made up of various competing factions. It's like tribal warfare. Open season on everyone, including coalition troops. Iraq will always be a battleground
As for when was the USA tasked to right the wrongs of the world. --- Well why were US troops in Korea, Vietnam, The Balkans. Then there was the perenial battle of the Cold War & all that that entailed. Was America invited to join in these battles or did it volunteer it's services. A case of self sacrifice or protecting self interest ?
Politians, Generals, Bankers, Industrialists & of course the Media love a good war, it's a money spinner cos as long as the troops are getting blown to Kingdom Come there is more & more work being done at home
What country doesn't do things that are in it's best interest? This bullshit about how selfish America is for acting in it's own best interest is idiotic. Almost as idiotic as that moron who made the decision to invade Iraq.
Few persons in the United States are as idiotic as that moron . . . and i'll warrant that none of them are publicly known . . .
D'artagnan wrote:You're such an idealist, Brandon. So refreshing. I'm just curious: What it they choose a pro-Iranian group to run Iraq? It's entirely possible they will...
It is also possible or should I say more than likely, that civil war will erupt,if it hasn't already, and it will be winner take all.
It seems civil war has already erupted. I personally have never doubted that a Shi'ite majority government would sooner or later, and most likely sooner rather than later, drift toward Iran.
kickycan wrote:What country doesn't do things that are in it's best interest? This bullshit about how selfish America is for acting in it's own best interest is idiotic. Almost as idiotic as that moron who made the decision to invade Iraq.
What is being pointed out is that America is acting in it's own best interest at the expense of what is in the best interest of other countries and peoples.
That other countries do and have done the same is a given. The point is that the people of America have the obligation to realize what America is doing and right what is wrong about America before America attempts to right what is wrong about other countries and peoples. Otherwise it's blatant and brazen-faced hypocrisy.
Hey the US doesnt get blamed for spread of World peace or eradcation of poverty, signing treaties to combat pollution etc
but people know america does that stuff - it's often on the news. i suppose people have almost gone into a habit of accusing america, that they don't stop to think of the good things its done.
D'artagnan wrote:You're such an idealist, Brandon. So refreshing. I'm just curious: What it they choose a pro-Iranian group to run Iraq? It's entirely possible they will...
Who they choose is none of our business, whether we like it or not, right up to the point that that new government becomes a clear and present danger to our existence on account of its concrete actions. A pro-Iranian government would be regrettable, but none of our business. I have to define democracy for you? It means that the Iraqi people choose their leaders, and what anyone else things, including us, makes no difference at all. Difficult concept, I guess.
InfraBlue wrote:kickycan wrote:What country doesn't do things that are in it's best interest? This bullshit about how selfish America is for acting in it's own best interest is idiotic. Almost as idiotic as that moron who made the decision to invade Iraq.
What is being pointed out is that America is acting in it's own best interest at the expense of what is in the best interest of other countries and peoples.
That other countries do and have done the same is a given. The point is that the people of America have the obligation to realize what America is doing and right what is wrong about America before America attempts to right what is wrong about other countries and peoples. Otherwise it's blatant and brazen-faced hypocrisy.
As Bush said probably several dozen time, we invaded to achieve certainty about his WMD and WMD programs.
stevewonder wrote:Hey the US doesnt get blamed for spread of World peace or eradcation of poverty, signing treaties to combat pollution etc
You mean like the defeat of Hitler or the Soviets?
InfraBlue wrote:kickycan wrote:What country doesn't do things that are in it's best interest? This bullshit about how selfish America is for acting in it's own best interest is idiotic. Almost as idiotic as that moron who made the decision to invade Iraq.
What is being pointed out is that America is acting in it's own best interest at the expense of what is in the best interest of other countries and peoples.
That other countries do and have done the same is a given. The point is that the people of America have the obligation to realize what America is doing and right what is wrong about America before America attempts to right what is wrong about other countries and peoples. Otherwise it's blatant and brazen-faced hypocrisy.
That makes a lot of sense.
