Bush supporters' aftermath thread II

More of the aftermath. These jokers shouldn't be operating a lemonade stand.

What the left wing does not realize is that the judgment was made by an Arfrican-American judge who was once married to a radical Democratic Congressman and who, before she became a judge, was active in the Civil Rights movement. She has, unfortunately, allowed her radicalism cloud her judicial judgement.

Her order will be appealed and ultimately adjudicated by the Supreme Court. In the meantime, we will be kept safer by the wiretaps.

When Pacelbul posts the bovine excrement attempting to smear Prescott Bush, George W. Bush's grandfather( as if George W. Bush was an adult at the time and working with his grandfather--DuH) he repeats an old completely discredited canard.


[edit]
War seizures controversy
Harriman Bank was the main Wall Street connection for German companies and the varied U.S. financial interests of Fritz Thyssen, who had been an early financial backer of the Nazi party until 1938, but who by 1939 had fled Germany and was bitterly denouncing Hitler. Dealing with Nazi Germany wasn't illegal when Hitler declared war on the US, but, six days after the attack on Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt signed the Trading With the Enemy Act. On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City.

The Harriman business interests seized under the act in October and November 1942 included:

Union Banking Corporation (UBC) (for Thyssen and Brown Brothers Harriman)
Holland-American Trading Corporation (with Harriman)
the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation (with Harriman)
Silesian-American Corporation (this company was partially owned by German entity; during the war the Germans tried to take the full control of Silesian-American. In response to that, American government seized German owned minority shares in the company, leaving the U.S. partners to carry on the business.)
The assets were held by the government for the duration of the war, then returned afterward. UBC was dissolved in 1951. Bush's interest in UBC consisted of one share. For it, he was reimbursed $1,500,000. These assets were later used to launch Bush family investments in the Texas energy industry. This presupposes that Union Banking Corporation was worth $4 billion, of which almost all would have been paid to the Harrimans. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030214.html by Cecil Adams addresses this claim with some skepticism.

Toby Rogers has claimed that Bush's connections to Silesian businesses (with Thyssen and Flick) make him complicit with the mining operations in Poland which used slave labor out of Oswiecim, where the Auschwitz concentration camp was later constructed. Allegations that Prescott Bush profited from slave labor or the Auschwitz concentration camp remain unsubstantiated.

There are unsubstantiated rumors concerning Prescott Bush's associations with the Nazi party. The Anti-Defamation League has stated, "Rumors about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, have circulated widely through the Internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated." [2] The rumors began with extreme right-wing attacks on George H.W. Bush during his 1980 presidential run and were renewed during his 1988 run.

The New York Herald-Tribune referred to the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, as "Hitler's Angel" and mentioned Bush only as an employee of the investment banking firm Thyssen used in the USA. The label was ironic, since by the time the Tribune article appeared, Hitler had turned on Thyssen and imprisoned him. Reportedly, however, there has been a determined effort by Canadian bloggers, apparently connected with Lyndon LaRouche, to circulate reports that Bush himself was known as "Hitler's Angel".

************************************************************

Perhaps Pachelbol is one of the Canadian Bloggers referred to above. The people on this thread can evalute for themselves if ANYTHING THAT WAS EVER TRUTHFUL OR SANE EVER CAME FROM LYNDON LAROUCHE.


And who is Lyndon LaRouche?


Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Jr. (born September 8, 1922) is an American political activist and founder of several political organizations in the United States and elsewhere. He is perhaps best known for being a "perennial candidate" for President of the United States. He is currently listed as a director and contributing editor of the Executive Intelligence Review News Service, part of the LaRouche Movement [1].

Although LaRouche has no formal qualifications, he has written extensively on economic, scientific, political, and cultural topics as part of his political views. Critics regard him as a conspiracy theorist, crackpot, attention-seeker and political extremist, while Chip Berlet, Dennis King, and others have described him as a fascist, a cult leader, a homophobe, and an anti-Semite. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] He has also been labelled an "unrepentant Marxist-Leninist" by Lt.Gen. Daniel O. Graham, former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, along with other high-ranking U.S. intelligence officers. [2]. He denies all of these characterizations. His followers regard him as a brilliant individual who has been unfairly persecuted for political reasons. According to a LaRouche publication, the Executive Intelligence Review, the late former U.S. Senator and Democratic presidential aspirant Eugene McCarthy called LaRouche "a man who has brought Plato and Schiller back into politics -- and was sent to jail for it."[3]

LaRouche has run for the Democratic nomination for President in every election year since 1976, including in 1992 while he was in prison, a record of eight attempts. Generally, electoral support for the LaRouche Movement has been inconsequential, despite the fact that LaRouche has received some support in Democratic presidential primaries; the zenith of electoral support for LaRouche's movement may have been the 1986 Democratic Party primary in Illinois, in which two of his followers were nominated for statewide office.

LaRouche was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy, mail fraud, and tax code violations, but continued his political activities from behind bars until his release in 1994 on parole.

'keep America safe'? There is no way on God's green earth that you can keep a country 'safe'. The infrastructure in any country is too fragile and vulnerable. There are too many ways that someone who wants to could wreak havoc. It is a false sense of security. With all the airport security, do you feel safer on a plane now? The rights that you are giving away -of free speech, right to privacy, right to protest (AND be actually heard) will never help America achieve even a small sense of security. Your current government sells fear; it profits from it hugely. And you all sit there and gobble it up on Fox network.

All the Bush Adm. has done is create more hatred and tension in the Middle East, mostly against Americans, and the pathetic irony of it is, is that Americans don't understand why Iraq especially hates them. They don't even care what ancient tribal laws these people have. Hey- Iraq should be down on their knees thanking the US Army for bringing death and destruction to their homes. How would you like it if the roles were reversed? You didn't like 9/11 much, did you? Try that on a scale 10 times worse, then perhaps you'll get an idea what a day in the life of an innocent person in Iraq is like. Not that you give a damn. But you should. A lot of your tax dollars are paying for this 'war' on terror by shoving a barrel down their throats and telling them what type of government they should have. Not to mention the huge American embassy being built in Baghdad at a phenomenal expense to you american taxpayers. While the Iraqis go without drinking water or electricity, your embassy has enough water to fill its swimming pool. Swell how you demonstrate empathy to people around the world. No wonder Americans are so little liked anywhere.

The Saudis know why - they were in the planes that bombed the Towers -not the Iraqis- why didn't Bush go after them? Why aren't you Americans asking the right questions? Is it because you're all afraid to protest?

It's pathetically funny that America feels frightened when they get one building bombed. They want the whole world to sit up and take notice. No one in America seems to comprehend all of the countries - and buildings - that they've bombed in the recent and distant past, and the millions of people they've killed. All in the name of what? Democracy? Is that what Vietnam was? There is no excuse for America pushing itself into Iraq, and as long as they meddle in the affairs of the Middle East with no comprehension they will have to expect more very real threats.

Get used to it. You asked for it.

BerhardR ('R' for retard?)

If it is such hogwash, you still have not answered my question:

(1)Why does the Library of Congress have this information about the Bush family/Nazi connection?

)2)Why do the National Archives have the information as well?

(3)If it were lies, why doesn't the Bush family sue?

Because it's the truth.

Now, you tell the Library of Congress and Nat'l Archives that they lie, ok?
Good boy. Time for beddie bye and your meds.

I am very much afraid, Pachelbul, that you have not replied to the following:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When Pacelbul posts the bovine excrement attempting to smear Prescott Bush, George W. Bush's grandfather( as if George W. Bush was an adult at the time and working with his grandfather--DuH) he repeats an old completely discredited canard.


[edit]
War seizures controversy
Harriman Bank was the main Wall Street connection for German companies and the varied U.S. financial interests of Fritz Thyssen, who had been an early financial backer of the Nazi party until 1938, but who by 1939 had fled Germany and was bitterly denouncing Hitler. Dealing with Nazi Germany wasn't illegal when Hitler declared war on the US, but, six days after the attack on Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt signed the Trading With the Enemy Act. On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City.

The Harriman business interests seized under the act in October and November 1942 included:

Union Banking Corporation (UBC) (for Thyssen and Brown Brothers Harriman)
Holland-American Trading Corporation (with Harriman)
the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation (with Harriman)
Silesian-American Corporation (this company was partially owned by German entity; during the war the Germans tried to take the full control of Silesian-American. In response to that, American government seized German owned minority shares in the company, leaving the U.S. partners to carry on the business.)
The assets were held by the government for the duration of the war, then returned afterward. UBC was dissolved in 1951. Bush's interest in UBC consisted of one share. For it, he was reimbursed $1,500,000. These assets were later used to launch Bush family investments in the Texas energy industry. This presupposes that Union Banking Corporation was worth $4 billion, of which almost all would have been paid to the Harrimans. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030214.html by Cecil Adams addresses this claim with some skepticism.

Toby Rogers has claimed that Bush's connections to Silesian businesses (with Thyssen and Flick) make him complicit with the mining operations in Poland which used slave labor out of Oswiecim, where the Auschwitz concentration camp was later constructed. Allegations that Prescott Bush profited from slave labor or the Auschwitz concentration camp remain unsubstantiated.

There are unsubstantiated rumors concerning Prescott Bush's associations with the Nazi party. The Anti-Defamation League has stated, "Rumors about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, have circulated widely through the Internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated." [2] The rumors began with extreme right-wing attacks on George H.W. Bush during his 1980 presidential run and were renewed during his 1988 run.

The New York Herald-Tribune referred to the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, as "Hitler's Angel" and mentioned Bush only as an employee of the investment banking firm Thyssen used in the USA. The label was ironic, since by the time the Tribune article appeared, Hitler had turned on Thyssen and imprisoned him. Reportedly, however, there has been a determined effort by Canadian bloggers, apparently connected with Lyndon LaRouche, to circulate reports that Bush himself was known as "Hitler's Angel".

************************************************************

Perhaps Pachelbol is one of the Canadian Bloggers referred to above. The people on this thread can evalute for themselves if ANYTHING THAT WAS EVER TRUTHFUL OR SANE EVER CAME FROM LYNDON LAROUCHE.


And who is Lyndon LaRouche?


Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Jr. (born September 8, 1922) is an American political activist and founder of several political organizations in the United States and elsewhere. He is perhaps best known for being a "perennial candidate" for President of the United States. He is currently listed as a director and contributing editor of the Executive Intelligence Review News Service, part of the LaRouche Movement [1].

Although LaRouche has no formal qualifications, he has written extensively on economic, scientific, political, and cultural topics as part of his political views. Critics regard him as a conspiracy theorist, crackpot, attention-seeker and political extremist, while Chip Berlet, Dennis King, and others have described him as a fascist, a cult leader, a homophobe, and an anti-Semite. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] He has also been labelled an "unrepentant Marxist-Leninist" by Lt.Gen. Daniel O. Graham, former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, along with other high-ranking U.S. intelligence officers. [2]. He denies all of these characterizations. His followers regard him as a brilliant individual who has been unfairly persecuted for political reasons. According to a LaRouche publication, the Executive Intelligence Review, the late former U.S. Senator and Democratic presidential aspirant Eugene McCarthy called LaRouche "a man who has brought Plato and Schiller back into politics -- and was sent to jail for it."[3]

LaRouche has run for the Democratic nomination for President in every election year since 1976, including in 1992 while he was in prison, a record of eight attempts. Generally, electoral support for the LaRouche Movement has been inconsequential, despite the fact that LaRouche has received some support in Democratic presidential primaries; the zenith of electoral support for LaRouche's movement may have been the 1986 Democratic Party primary in Illinois, in which two of his followers were nominated for statewide office.

LaRouche was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy, mail fraud, and tax code violations, but continued his political activities from behind bars until his release in 1994 on parole.

*************************************************************

Sue? Sue? When every movie star and prominent person who is profieled in National Review does not sue, that tells you something, doesn't it? If there was really a story, the left wing papers and magazines would be all over it.

Are you really so ignorant about the USA and the media?

Do you really think that Michael Moore would not have made a movie that at least included the garbage?

Do you really believe that Al Franken would not have repeated if over and over on Air America?

pachelbel,
May I point out something.
We were not at war with Germany until dec of 1941.

Any business done between anyone in the US and Germany previous to that was perfectly legal,even if it was in hindsight stupid.

Are you condemning the Bush family for conducting LEGAL business?

Indeed we worked hard to establish a diplomatic relationship with Hitler and there were many Americans working in and doing business in Germany right up to the invasion of Poland and the ultimate declaration of war.

In 1945, Russia was our ally against Axis nations and we pursued diplomatic relations with Russia for some time following the war. Result? The Berlin wall/Iron Curtain and many hundreds of nuclear warheads pointed straight at the USA.

There's a photo circulating around the forum of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein in 1983. That's 1983!!! This was less than two years after Iran had held our embassey people hostage for more than a year courtesy of Jimmy Carter's attempts at Middle East diplomacy, and during a time when diplomatic solutions were being actively pursued to solve Middle East problems At that time Saddam was considered to be somewhat less crazy than the deranged Ayatollah who was calling the shots in Iran. Iraq was seen as our best chance to keep Iran contained. So long as Iran and Iraq were at war with each other, they weren't likely to be bothering anybody else. So we funded Iraq. Russia funded Iran. And both countries conducted war by proxy in that way.

Not too much different than Iran and Syria using their proxy, Hezbollah, to conduct war against Israel now.

It seems we never learn that diplomatic relationships with totaliarian governments is always going to be tenuous at best, and can be devastagingly disastrous at worst when you have an opportunistic terrorist type in charge.

Fox, how does it hurt us to maintain a diplomatic relationship? It might help us to iron out differences, convey our views, etc. I don't think talking ever hurts.

Thats true,talking never hurts.

But,how long do you talk?
When do you stop talking and act?

They are not mutually exclusive.

Foxfyre- some of the left wing are so stupid that they never heard of "realpolitic". Some are so vicious that they feign ignorance of the topic.

Some posters gleefully point to the picture of Rusmfeld shaking hands with Saddam as PROOF that the US was indeed responsible for Iraq's rise in the Middle East.. As Foxfure mentioned that was in 1983(SEVEN YEARS BEFORE DESERT STORM).
What some of the brainless left wing does not remember or does not choose to remember, is that FDR sat with Joe Stalin at Yalta and GAVE AWAY almost all of Eastern Europe so that the Soviets could help us defeat Japan.

AND FOUR SHORT YEARS LATER(1948) THE SOVIETS BLOCKADED BERLIN AND THE COLD WAR STARTED IN EARNEST.


And you have ignorant posters like Advocate who apparently knows NOTHING about History babbling about "diplomatic relationships"

Advocate said--

"I don't think talking ever hurts"---What a crock--Talking sometimes does HURT.

Cordell Hull said of the negotiations offered by the Japanese a few days before Pearl Harbor which were followed, of course, by a sneak attack--

"In all my fifty years of public service I have never seen a document that was more crowded with infamous falsehoods and distortions on a scale so huge that I never imagined until today that any government on this planet was capable of uttering them"

The august Secretary of State, Cordell Hull, of course, who is long since deceased, had no chance to examine the puffery and lies presented by the Islamo-fascist murderers from Iran and Hezbollah.

You can't talk to religious fanatics who have vowed to DESTROY ISRAEL AND THE USA!!!

Wow, Cordell Hull caused Japan to attack Pearl Harbor. It is amazing that the schools glossed over this when covering the history of WWII. Leave it to Bernard to keep us informed.

Gee, Advocate, I learn something every day. But of course I don't believe a single word you say UNLESS YOU PRESENT EVIDENCE. Since you don't----

Foxfyre- some of the left wing are so stupid that they never heard of "realpolitic". Some are so vicious that they feign ignorance of the topic.

Some posters gleefully point to the picture of Rusmfeld shaking hands with Saddam as PROOF that the US was indeed responsible for Iraq's rise in the Middle East.. As Foxfure mentioned that was in 1983(SEVEN YEARS BEFORE DESERT STORM).
What some of the brainless left wing does not remember or does not choose to remember, is that FDR sat with Joe Stalin at Yalta and GAVE AWAY almost all of Eastern Europe so that the Soviets could help us defeat Japan.

AND FOUR SHORT YEARS LATER(1948) THE SOVIETS BLOCKADED BERLIN AND THE COLD WAR STARTED IN EARNEST.


And you have ignorant posters like Advocate who apparently knows NOTHING about History babbling about "diplomatic relationships"

Advocate said--

"I don't think talking ever hurts"---What a crock--Talking sometimes does HURT.

Cordell Hull said of the negotiations offered by the Japanese a few days before Pearl Harbor which were followed, of course, by a sneak attack--

"In all my fifty years of public service I have never seen a document that was more crowded with infamous falsehoods and distortions on a scale so huge that I never imagined until today that any government on this planet was capable of uttering them"

The august Secretary of State, Cordell Hull, of course, who is long since deceased, had no chance to examine the puffery and lies presented by the Islamo-fascist murderers from Iran and Hezbollah.

You can't talk to religious fanatics who have vowed to DESTROY ISRAEL AND THE USA!!!

I did not say that I was opposed to diplomatic relationships. In fact I am earnestly in favor of them. I am 100% opposed to war and think it is barbaric, stupid, unconscionable, immoral, and indefensible as any reasonable way to settle differences between peoples or nations. Any time peace can be achieved through diplomatic means, I am all for it.

What I did say is that diplomatic agreements with totalitarian governments will always be tenuous and should never be taken for granted. We are pretty confident that Canada or Britain or Australia or even Mexico are highly unlikely to initiate military hostilities towards us so long as their current governmetns are in place.

But the absence of war is not always peace.
And elsewhere today, I posted a quote from an Israeli dove who deplored war as I do. He said that even a dove has to defend itself or it is likely to wind up on somebody's plate.

The track record of diplomatically achieved peace among totalitarian governments is pretty grim though. And too often we and/or others have been forced to defeat them to the point of an unconditional surrender before peace was achieved, generally resulting in friendship between the victor and vanquished. Or, we have helped effect conditions that brought down governments and required them to become civilized members of the world community. The alternative was to submit to their authority or live under constant mortal threat of what they might do.

We have never found that necessary in the case of any nation that practices some semblance of democracy, human rights, and personal freedom.

Bernard, Advocate has mastered or at least is mastering the art of debate without resorting to personally directed insults. I appreciate that a lot in him and thus read his posts whether or not I agree with them.

No matter how well presented an argument or how compelling the research, the member who makes his argument within the framework of a personal insult weakens his case and is annoying and he generally winds up being mostly ignored. That's unfortunate when the member really is doing good research and really does have something significant to contribute.

Just something to think about.

Foxfyre- Again--It is not an insult to say that a person is ignorant of the facts. Ignorant means not knowing. Advocate never gives a link or evidence or documentation. That is why he? she? is ignorant. I never have had the occasion of believing one thing he? she? has written. When he? she? begins to give evidence rather than ignorant statements which are clearly mistaken, then I will debate with him? or her? but before that. in light of the ridiculous statements that he? or she? makes, I am sorry but I must, in light of his? her? statements declare that he? she? is ignorant.

Of course, if he? she? relents and gives evidence from respected sources, I would have no reason to label him? or her? ignorant, would I?

I know Bernard, but it comes ACROSS as an insult.

And you really do wonderful research and have a ton of stuff to contribute. Just do it without pissing people off so much.

(Of course I'm a great one to talk about that. I piss people off here just by saying good morning.