Bush supporters' aftermath thread II

Sierra Song- Keltic Wizard is an expert at whining. He is obviously a far left winger who is pressing for the election of Lamont, the whoremonger, because the motivation for Keltic Wizard is hate for President Bush.

I have news for Keltic Wizard. President Bush is the president and will remain as President until Jan. 2009. He will NOT be re-elected because he will not run again. He cannot by law. However, he will continue to press for his goals in Iraq no matter how much that irks the left wing.

Sierra Song- The left wing just cannot get over the fact that President Bush was elected President twice--in 2000 and 2004. The left wing just cannot get over the fact that President Clinton, distracted by his numerous infidelities, KICKED AWAY the Democratic hold on the House and Senate which they had held almost continuously since World War II.

Keltic Wizard, Sierra, is such a partisan left winger that he credits the fastest zipper in the West, Bill Clinton, with the economic recovery of the nineties when the person who did it all, with grudging assent from Clinton, was really Alan Greenspan!

Soon, we may see on TV for the edification of the populace, a retelling of the way in which President Clinton was unmindful of the threats from outside the USA by Terrorists.

You may post fact after fact< Sierra Song, but it will not change the mind of people like Keltic Wizard. The only thing that changes those types of minds are victories by the Republicans which occurred on the House and Senate level in 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002, and 2004 and victories on the Presidential level in 2000 and 2004!

Folks, I've lost track, are we on Abuzz or SB or A2K and when did we get so far away from the topic? I don't know everybody's history here, and don't much care for a lot of prissy generalizations, so can we get back to whatever we were supposed to be talking about? And if we can't perhaps we should move the discussion to SB, where prissy generalizations are the life blood. I'm guessing 5 nano-seconds before one of the SB self-appointed monitors copys and pastes this on line.

Also, Sierra Song, You will find that Keltic Wizard is especially rude to any women who post. I think he feels he is a male and doesn't need to take any crap from a female!

I believe in treating men and women equally. Both are accountable for what they post here.

Please note the following quotes, and who made them.






It is important to note that both of these posters limit their output to boosting the Republican Party-essentially acting as the voice of the GOP on Able2Know. I think that people who grew up in the fifties should indeed take note of the low esteem this age group is held by the younger Republicans, especially as the Republicans have been so hot to put in "reforms" to Social Security and such-"reforms" which will result in a massive shortfall in the money paid out to Social Security recipients.

Indeed, all age groups should note the Republican tactic of pitting one age group against another-such a sharp departure from the traditional message of trying to bring Americans together.

Distinct possibility that SS and JW are the same person. Their style is pretty much the same, dropping little-girl-pissy-pants comments hither and thither. Not much thoughtfulness, not much indication of understanding the value of education, and, as you said, any give-and-take of discussion overridden by a dull and kneejerk party fealty.

The state of youth today. Harumph.

I do recall the fact that SS cannot provide links for claims that she makes,and that was a problem that JustGiggles had as well...

Cycloptichorn

Speaking of whiners, do you guys remember when the conservatives and Republicans were thoroughly chastised for complaining about the gross distortions and errors in Fahrenheit 911 and how we were attempting to trample all over the First Amendment Free Speech rights when we agreed with some markets not showing it because it was so bad?

I don't recall any Republicans demanding it be pulled however, and it was billed not as fiction but as a documentary. The upcoming ABC program this weekend is billed as a 'dramatization', not a documentary.

Well, get this:

SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP URGES DISNEY CEO TO CANCEL MISLEADING 9/11 MINISERIES
Thursday, September 7, 2006
Washington, DC ?-?- Urging him to cancel the grossly inaccurate upcoming miniseries The Path to 9/11, the Senate Democratic Leadership today sent the following letter to Disney President and CEO Robert Iger. Disney''s subsidiary ABC erroneously claims the misleading miniseries is based on 9/11 Commission report and is planning to air it on September 10 and 11. Shockingly, the network is also planning to use the program as a teaching tool through Scholastic, potentially misinforming thousands of children about the most important event in recent American history.
The text of the letter, signed by Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid, Assistant Democratic Leader Dick Durbin, and Senators Debbie Stabenow, Charles Schumer, and Byron Dorgan, is below.

September 7, 2006
Mr. Robert A. Iger
President and CEO
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank CA 91521

Dear Mr. Iger,
We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of The Path to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports from experts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and serious inaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about the tragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, the manner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertised suggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major and well respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancel this broadcast to cease Disney''s plans to use it as a teaching tool in schools across America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed and factually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be a gross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, to your shareholders, and to the nation.

The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcast license predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principle obligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest. Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty of broadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an open and accurate discussion of political ideas and events.

Disney and ABC claim this program to be based on the 9/11 Commission Report and are using that assertion as part of the promotional campaign for it. The 9/11 Commission is the most respected American authority on the 9/11 attacks, and association with it carries a special responsibility. Indeed, the very events themselves on 9/11, so tragic as they were, demand extreme care by any who attempt to use those events as part of an entertainment or educational program. To quote Steve McPhereson, president of ABC Entertainment, ""When you take on the responsibility of telling the story behind such an important event, it is absolutely critical that you get it right.""

Unfortunately, it appears Disney and ABC got it totally wrong.
Despite claims by your network''s representatives that The Path to 9/11 is based on the report of the 9/11 Commission, 9/11 Commissioners themselves, as well as other experts on the issues, disagree.

Richard Ben-Veniste, speaking for himself and fellow 9/11 Commissioners who recently viewed the program, said, ""As we were watching, we were trying to think how they could have misinterpreted the 9/11 Commission''s findings the way that they had."" [""9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,"" New York Times, September 6, 2006]

Richard Clarke, the former counter-terrorism czar, and a national security advisor to ABC has described the program as ""deeply flawed"" and said of the program''s depiction of a Clinton official hanging up on an intelligence agent, ""It''s 180 degrees from what happened."" [""9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,"" New York Times, September 6, 2006]

Reports suggest that an FBI agent who worked on 9/11 and served as a consultant to ABC on this program quit halfway through because, ""he thought they were making things up."" [MSNBC, September 7, 2006]
Even Thomas Kean, who serves as a paid consultant to the miniseries, has admitted that scenes in the film are fictionalized. [""9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,"" New York Times, September 6, 2006]

That Disney would seek to broadcast an admittedly and proven false recounting of the events of 9/11 raises serious questions about the motivations of its creators and those who approved the deeply flawed program. Finally, that Disney plans to air commercial-free a program that reportedly cost it $40 million to produce serves to add fuel to these concerns.

These concerns are made all the more pressing by the political leaning of and the public statements made by the writer/producer of this miniseries, Mr. Cyrus Nowrasteh, in promoting this miniseries across conservative blogs and talk shows.

Frankly, that ABC and Disney would consider airing a program that could be construed as right-wing political propaganda on such a grave and important event involving the security of our nation is a discredit both to the Disney brand and to the legacy of honesty built at ABC by honorable individuals from David Brinkley to Peter Jennings. Furthermore, that Disney would seek to use Scholastic to promote this misguided programming to American children as a substitute for factual information is a disgrace.

As 9/11 Commission member Jamie Gorelick said, ""It is critically important to the safety of our nation that our citizens, and particularly our school children, understand what actually happened and why -- so that we can proceed from a common understanding of what went wrong and act with unity to make our country safer.""

Should Disney allow this programming to proceed as planned, the factual record, millions of viewers, countless schoolchildren, and the reputation of Disney as a corporation worthy of the trust of the American people and the United States Congress will be deeply damaged. We urge you, after full consideration of the facts, to uphold your responsibilities as a respected member of American society and as a beneficiary of the free use of the public airwaves to cancel this factually inaccurate and deeply misguided program. We look forward to hearing back from you soon.

Sincerely,
Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid
Assistant Democratic Leader Dick Durbin
Senator Debbie Stabenow
Senator Charles Schumer
Senator Byron Dorgan
LINK

Democrats urge ABC to withdraw 9/11 movieSep 7, 8:35 PM (ET)
by Richard Cowan and Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Amid an election-year debate over who can best defend America, U.S. congressional Democrats urged ABC on Thursday to cancel a TV miniseries about the September 11 attacks that is critical of former Democratic President Bill Clinton and his top aides.

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada denounced the five-hour television movie, set to air in two parts on Sunday and Monday nights, as "a work of fiction."

Reid and other leading Senate Democrats wrote to Robert Iger, president and CEO of ABC's corporate parent, the Walt Disney Co., urging him to "cancel this factually inaccurate and deeply misguided program."
MORE HERE


ABC: '9/11' mini 'fictional'
By Andrew Wallenstein

ABC issued a defense Thursday of its controversial miniseries "The Path to 9/11," which has come under fire from members of the Clinton administration.

The network released a statement saying that the five-hour telefilm, which airs Sunday and Monday nights, is not meant to be a documentary but a "dramatization" of the events leading up to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.


"It is a dramatization drawn from a variety of sources including the '9/11 Commission Report,' other published materials and personal interviews," the network said. "As such, for dramatic and narrative purposes, the movie contains fictionalized scenes, composite and representative characters and dialogue and time compression."

A spokeswoman for the network declined comment on the statement.
In recent days, a rising chorus of critics have assailed "Path to 9/11" for offering an inaccurate depiction of pre-Sept. 11 behind-the-scenes politics. Former Clinton officials, including Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and National Security Adviser Samuel Berger have voiced their objections over scenes that cast their involvement in an unflattering light.
MORE HERE

ABC Said to Re-Edit Key Parts of 9/11 ShowBy PATRICK HEALY and JESSE McKINLEY
Under growing pressure from Democrats and aides to former President Bill Clinton, ABC is re-evaluating and in some cases re-editing crucial scenes in its new mini-series ""The Path to 9/11"" to soften its portrait of the Clinton administration''s pursuit of Osama bin Laden, according to people involved in the project.
MORE HERE

'NYT' Calls Controversial 9/11 Movie Evenhanded, Others Disagree
By E&P Staff

Published: September 07, 2006 10:00 PM ET updted 11:00 PM and Friday
NEW YORK The film-makers and network responsible for the upcoming miniseries, "The Path to 9/11," which is now under assault for its alleged conservative bias, received critical support from a perhaps unexpected quarter on Friday -- The New York Times.

The paper's TV critic, Alessandra Stanley, declares the film "fictionalized" but still evenhanded. In another review today, Chicago Sun-Times TV critic Doug Elfman calls the movie a total "bore" and "amateurish." John Podhoretz, conservative columnist for the New York Post, labels it a "stiff" and attacks the film's depiction of Madeline Albright and Sandy Berger. USA Today's Robert Bianco writes that the movie "has enough trouble just following history. Rewriting history is an ambition it should have left at the door."
MORE HERE

ABC to Alter Show on Pre-9/11 Run-Up
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 8, 2006; A02
ABC plans to make minor changes to its docudrama on the run-up to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in response to heated complaints from former Clinton administration officials that a number of scenes are fabricated, a network executive said yesterday.
MORE HERE


Pols pound 'Path'
Under fire, ABC mulls yanking mini

Bill Clinton loyalists are demanding wholesale changes to the upcoming miniseries -- and while ABC is making some snips, the alterations, insiders say, may not please the Dems.
But a bombshell decision may happen anyway: Sources close to the project say the network, which has been in a media maelstrom over the pic, is mulling the idea of yanking the mini altogether.
MORE HERE

ABC: 9/11 Program Criticism 'Premature'
Sep 08 12:36 PM US/Eastern

By DEEPTI HAJELA
Associated Press Writer
NEW YORK

ABC defended a miniseries on the events leading up to the Sept. 11 attacks after Clinton administration officials said it distorts history so drastically that it should be corrected or shelved.
"No one has seen the final version of the film, because the editing process is not yet complete, so criticisms of film specifics are premature and irresponsible," the network said in a statement Thursday.
Former administration officials and Senate Democrats said in letters to the head of the network's parent company that the "The Path to 9/11" was "terribly wrong."

Former President Clinton, speaking with news reporters after a Democratic fundraiser in Arkansas on Thursday, said he hadn't seen the ABC film.

"But I think they ought to tell the truth, particularly if they are going to claim it is based on the 9/11 commission report," he said. "They shouldn't have scenes that are directly contradicted by the findings of the 9/11 report."

Executive producer Marc Platt said editing of the miniseries was going on and "will continue to, if needed until we broadcast," but declined to discuss the specific scenes that were being changed, The New York Times reported Friday.
MORE HERE

Richard Ben-Veniste, speaking for himself and fellow 9/11 Commissioners who recently viewed the program, said, ""As we were watching, we were trying to think how they could have misinterpreted the 9/11 Commission''s findings the way that they had.""

Richard Clarke, the former counter-terrorism czar, and a national security advisor to ABC has described the program as ""deeply flawed"" and said of the program''s depiction of a Clinton official hanging up on an intelligence agent, ""It''s 180 degrees from what happened.""

Here's John Podhertz' take on PT9/11 - and he's no liberal:

'PATH' MISSED REAL
9/11 STORY



Cycloptichorn

Shock of shocks. Instead of proceeding down the path of honesty, Foxy tries a sordid attempt to justify the lies of this Disney/ABC debacle.

Really? You honestly think that a valid comparison is the same thing as a justification? Now most people would say that it would be dishonest to make that leap of faith, but I am honest enough to admit I do not know whether your intent is to be dishonest or whether you are just wrong.

And I see a difference between those two things too.

foxfyre said
"a valid comparison is the same thing as a justification?"

Holy crapola batman; foxfyre is totally off her meds again.

Good. Fox is practicing "differentiation". Not quite there yet, but a heck of a fine direction to begin heading.

As to "Reagan" vs the ABC thing... there's some pretty significant differences in what is/was at issue. And of course, there is the difference that one was pulled and the other seems not likely to be pulled.

I've tacked this item in on a couple of threads, but it applies here as well...
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001491.php

Would almost be valid if I had made a comparsion between Reagan and the ABC miniseries dramatization. I however was comparing the difference between the Left wingnut accusations of censorship when some objected to the misrepresentations in Fahrenheit 911 and how the Dems are now vehemently objecting to and even making poorly veiled threats re the showing of the misrepresentations in the ABC miniseries dramatization.

It is a comparison between reactions showing blatant hypocrisy. But I don't expect everybody to be able to pick up on subtleties like that.

Oh, sorry. Perhaps I got the idea you were talking about the ABC series because everything in your last post (other than the preamble, perhaps 3% of the post) concerned nothing but the ABC series in contrast with the Reagan series.

No, since I introduced the topic by comparing the ABC mini-series with Fahrenheit 911, I assumed people would assume I was comparing reactions to the ABC mini-series with Fahrenheit 911. Probably a poor assumption to make in some company. I never saw the Reagan series.

Sep 8, 10:49 PM EDT

ABC Gets More Pressure to Toss 9/11 Film

By DAVID BAUDER
AP Television Writer

NEW YORK (AP) -- ABC faced growing pressure Friday about its planned miniseries on the buildup to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Former Clinton administration officials, historians and a Democratic petition with nearly 200,000 signatures urged the network to scrap the five-hour drama.

The network said the movie, scheduled to air commercial-free on Sunday and Monday, is being edited to deal with concerns that it distorts history. ABC had no response to the calls to abandon it.

A group of historians, including Arthur Schlesinger Jr. and Princeton University's Sean Wilentz, wrote to ABC parent Walt Disney Co. CEO Robert Iger, urging him to scrap the series. They said that permitting inaccuracies to heighten drama is "disingenuous and dangerous."

"A responsible broadcast network should have nothing to do with the falsification of history, except to expose it," they wrote.




The Democratic National Committee said it delivered a petition with nearly 200,000 signatures to ABC's Washington office urging the network drop its "right-wing factually inaccurate mocudrama."

Former national security adviser Samuel R. Berger and former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, whose depictions are at the center of the controversy, asked Thomas Kean, the Republican ex-governor of New Jersey who led the commission looking into the attacks, to use his influence with filmmakers to pull it.

"You can't fix it," Berger said on CNN. "You gotta yank it."

The film's executive producer, Marc Platt, responded that many of the film's most vocal critics haven't yet seen it.

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"I'm not sure that what they think is there, is there," he said Friday by phone from London.

Platt called the growing uproar "a distraction in some ways from the bigger intentions (of the film), which is a shame. And that's quite frankly what the whole 9/11 story is about."

Stressing that the miniseries is a docudrama, Platt said "elements and issues that are outside the boundaries of what we believe to be fair and reasonable will be addressed" until airtime. "I hope people will watch the film and draw their own conclusions."

In a statement Thursday, ABC said the editing process for the $40 million film was ongoing.

"No one has seen the final version of the film, because the editing process is not yet complete, so criticisms of film specifics are premature and irresponsible," the network said.

In another complication, President Bush has asked broadcast networks to clear time for an address to the nation Monday night at 9:01 p.m., just at the start of the last hour of "The Path to 9/11" on the East Coast. ABC announced plans Friday night to cover what is expected to be a 20-minute speech before resuming the film.

Former President Clinton, speaking with news reporters after a Democratic fundraiser in Arkansas on Thursday, said he hadn't seen the ABC film.

"But I think they ought to tell the truth, particularly if they are going to claim it is based on the 9/11 commission report," he said. "They shouldn't have scenes that are directly contradicted by the findings of the 9/11 report."

In a statement Friday, former Vice President Al Gore said, "I am deeply concerned that ABC is considering going forward with their plans to broadcast this so-called docudrama."

Several Democratic senators have also urged that the movie be canceled.

Harvey Keitel, one of the actors in "The Path to 9/11," also said he had questions about whether some of the material was accurate.

"When I received the script, it said ABC history project," Keitel said in an interview with CNN Headline News' "Showbiz Tonight." "I took it to be exactly what they presented to me, history. And that the facts were correct. It turned out not all the facts were correct, and ABC set out trying to heal that problem. In some instances it was too late because we had begun."

A cut of the film distributed to TV critics depicts a team poised in darkness outside bin Laden's cave fortress in Afghanistan, while an actor portraying Berger in Washington stalls on giving the final go-ahead to carry out the seizure. He confers via video phone to CIA chief George Tenet.

"Look, George," Berger says, "if you feel confident, you can present your recommendation to the president yourself."

Tenet responds angrily, then Berger's screen goes blank. He has hung up.

Having waited on the phone for clearance, the mission's lead CIA agent must give the rest of the team the bad news: the mission is aborted.

The next scene shows archival footage of Clinton's video testimony about his relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

Another scene in the movie depicts counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke explaining to FBI agent John O'Neill that he doesn't believe Clinton will take chances to kill bin Laden at a time Republicans were pressing for impeachment.

"It's pathetic," O'Neill said.

Democratic senators protesting the movie suggested it "could be construed as right-wing political propaganda."

Albright objected to a scene that reportedly shows her warning the Pakistani government before an airstrike on Afghanistan, which resulted in bin Laden's escape. She said the scene was false and defamatory.

The film quotes the actor playing Tenet responding to the notification by saying: "The end result being that we've enhanced bin Laden's stature in the Islamic world. He's thumbing his nose at us."

Director David Cunningham, in an earlier interview with The Associated Press, said people putting the film together would hear conflicting reports all the time. "These might be from experts who were there in the same room, and they're telling us completely opposite things." He said he would use the 9/11 commission report to try to resolve those disputes.

"There was no agenda for this movie to go after a particular party or person," Cunningham said. "We were showing what happened, and the people who were involved along the way. This is not a blue-state/red-state movie."

Kean defended the miniseries.

"It's something the American people should see," he said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America" Friday. "Because you understand how these people wanted to do us harm, developed this plot, and how the machinations of the American government under two administrations not only failed to stop them, but even failed to slow them down."

Kean said he hoped people would watch the miniseries to "understand better what went on, and hopefully understand what still needs to be done."

The controversy is reminiscent of the one that erupted over a 2003 CBS miniseries about President Ronald Reagan. In the face of political pressure over that film's accuracy, CBS canceled it, and it later aired on the Showtime cable network.

---

AP Television Writer Frazier Moore in New York and AP writers Devlin Barrett in Washington and Andrew DeMillo in Little Rock, Ark., contributed to this report.
SOURCE

Lots of bucks involved. 40 million for production and big-time presold advertising hours. The forces pushing ABC to air won't be small.

ABC has clearly overlayed this thing with the imprimateur of "historical fact following the commission report" and their tie-in with Scholastic and classroom lessons plans points that up pretty acutely.

Something like what Keitel suggests seems the way to go. Reshoot where necessary, along with editing where that is sufficient, then go ahead and air it. But get the facts right. It's an important bit of history.

Did you suggest 'get the facts right' during the discussion of Fahrenheit 911? That one was offered free to classrooms too.

I hope they do delete any unverifiable quotes, statements, etc. from the ABC program as I think they could use verifiable quotes, statements, etc. to make the point. I think all people deserve to be quoted accurately.

But my point here is that the difference in the reaction by the Democrats to what is clearly billed as a dramatization and the reaction of the Republicans to Fahrenheit 911 that was clearly billed as a documentary.

I hope ABC doesn't pull the mini-series, however. It is high time the MSM gives as much scrutiny to security policies in the eight years of the Clinton administration as they have given to the first eight months of the Bush administration.