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Bush supporters' aftermath thread II

 
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2006 03:42 pm
blatham wrote:
Lots of bucks involved. 40 million for production and big-time presold advertising hours. The forces pushing ABC to air won't be small.

ABC has clearly overlayed this thing with the imprimateur of "historical fact following the commission report" and their tie-in with Scholastic and classroom lessons plans points that up pretty acutely.

Something like what Keitel suggests seems the way to go. Reshoot where necessary, along with editing where that is sufficient, then go ahead and air it. But get the facts right. It's an important bit of history.


Did you suggest "get the facts right" when the "documentary" about Richard Nixon was aired?
Somehow,I dont think so.
Yet you are now whining about a "docudrama" that ABC has said is LOOSELY based on the 9/11 report.

Why the double standard from you?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2006 03:50 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Why the double standard from you?


I find it hard to believe this is a serious question you are asking.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2006 03:59 pm
ABC is billing this as the 'official story' in their advertising - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHgbeJu1WGk

If you guys can't see the difference between a documentary which uses film of real people, and a fictional piece which uses actors portraying real people in an inaccurate light, then you really need to get some help, quickly.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 12:32 am
Cycloptichorn quotes John Podhoretz on the ABC Movie.

Cycloptichorn tells us that although John Podhoretz is not a liberal but a true blue conservative, he is telling the truth.

VERY WELL, I WILL ACCEPT THE TRUTH FROM PODHORETZ IN THE POST WRITTEN BY CYCLOPITCHORN BUT I MUST INSIST THAT CYCLOPITCHORN GIVE THE SAME ATTENTION AND THE SAME CREDIBILITY TO ANOTHER OF PODHORETZ' ESSAYS...

WHICH I REPLICATE BELOW---

(It show how the claim that WMD's were present in Iraq was entirely understandable and ACCEPTED BY BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS!

quote PODHORETZ




COMMENTARY

December 2005

Who Is Lying About Iraq?

Norman Podhoretz

Among the many distortions, misrepresentations, and outright falsifications that have emerged from the debate over Iraq, one in particular stands out above all others. This is the charge that George W. Bush misled us into an immoral and/or unnecessary war in Iraq by telling a series of lies that have now been definitively exposed.

What makes this charge so special is the amazing success it has enjoyed in getting itself established as a self-evident truth even though it has been refuted and discredited over and over again by evidence and argument alike. In this it resembles nothing so much as those animated cartoon characters who, after being flattened, blown up, or pushed over a cliff, always spring back to life with their bodies perfectly intact. Perhaps, like those cartoon characters, this allegation simply cannot be killed off, no matter what.

Nevertheless, I want to take one more shot at exposing it for the lie that it itself really is. Although doing so will require going over ground that I and many others have covered before, I hope that revisiting this well-trodden terrain may also serve to refresh memories that have grown dim, to clarify thoughts that have grown confused, and to revive outrage that has grown commensurately dulled.




The main "lie" that George W. Bush is accused of telling us is that Saddam Hussein possessed an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, or WMD as they have invariably come to be called. From this followed the subsidiary "lie" that Iraq under Saddam's regime posed a two-edged mortal threat. On the one hand, we were informed, there was a distinct (or even "imminent") possibility that Saddam himself would use these weapons against us and/or our allies; and on the other hand, there was the still more dangerous possibility that he would supply them to terrorists like those who had already attacked us on 9/11 and to whom he was linked.

This entire scenario of purported deceit has been given a new lease on life by the indictment in late October of I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, then chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. Libby stands accused of making false statements to the FBI and of committing perjury in testifying before a grand jury that had been convened to find out who in the Bush administration had "outed" Valerie Plame, a CIA agent married to the retired ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, IV. The supposed purpose of leaking this classified information to the press was to retaliate against Wilson for having "debunked" (in his words) "the lies that led to war."

Now, as it happens, Libby was not charged with having outed Plame but only with having lied about when and from whom he first learned that she worked for the CIA. Moreover, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor who brought the indictment against him, made a point of emphasizing that

[t]his indictment is not about the war. This indictment is not about the propriety of the war. And people who believe fervently in the war effort, people who oppose it, people who have mixed feelings about it should not look to this indictment for any resolution of how they feel or any vindication of how they feel.

This is simply an indictment that says, in a national-security investigation about the compromise of a CIA officer's identity that may have taken place in the context of a very heated debate over the war, whether some person?-a person, Mr. Libby?-lied or not.

No matter. Harry Reid, the Democratic leader in the Senate, spoke for a host of other opponents of the war in insisting that

[t]his case is bigger than the leak of classified information. It is about how the Bush White House manufactured and manipulated intelligence in order to bolster its case for the war in Iraq and to discredit anyone who dared to challenge the President.

Yet even stipulating?-which I do only for the sake of argument?-that no weapons of mass destruction existed in Iraq in the period leading up to the invasion, it defies all reason to think that Bush was lying when he asserted that they did. To lie means to say something one knows to be false. But it is as close to certainty as we can get that Bush believed in the truth of what he was saying about WMD in Iraq.

How indeed could it have been otherwise? George Tenet, his own CIA director, assured him that the case was "a slam dunk." This phrase would later become notorious, but in using it, Tenet had the backing of all fifteen agencies involved in gathering intelligence for the United States. In the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) of 2002, where their collective views were summarized, one of the conclusions offered with "high confidence" was that

Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding its chemical, biological, nuclear, and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.

The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and?-yes?-France all agreed with this judgment. And even Hans Blix?-who headed the UN team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had complied with the demands of the Security Council that he get rid of the weapons of mass destruction he was known to have had in the past?-lent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion:

The discovery of a number of 122-mm chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker, and therefore the rockets must have been moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions. . . . They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery of a few rockets does not resolve but rather points to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for.

Blix now claims that he was only being "cautious" here, but if, as he now also adds, the Bush administration "misled itself" in interpreting the evidence before it, he at the very least lent it a helping hand.




So, once again, did the British, the French, and the Germans, all of whom signed on in advance to Secretary of State Colin Powell's reading of the satellite photos he presented to the UN in the period leading up to the invasion. Powell himself and his chief of staff, Lawrence Wilkerson, now feel that this speech was the low point of his tenure as Secretary of State. But Wilkerson (in the process of a vicious attack on the President, the Vice President, and the Secretary of Defense for getting us into Iraq) is forced to acknowledge that the Bush administration did not lack for company in interpreting the available evidence as it did:

I can't tell you why the French, the Germans, the Brits, and us thought that most of the material, if not all of it, that we presented at the UN on 5 February 2003 was the truth. I can't. I've wrestled with it. [But] when you see a satellite photograph of all the signs of the chemical-weapons ASP?-Ammunition Supply Point?-with chemical weapons, and you match all those signs with your matrix on what should show a chemical ASP, and they're there, you have to conclude that it's a chemical ASP, especially when you see the next satellite photograph which shows the UN inspectors wheeling in their white vehicles with black markings on them to that same ASP, and everything is changed, everything is clean. . . . But George [Tenet] was convinced, John McLaughlin [Tenet's deputy] was convinced, that what we were presented [for Powell's UN speech] was accurate.

Going on to shoot down a widespread impression, Wilkerson informs us that even the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) was convinced:

People say, well, INR dissented. That's a bunch of bull. INR dissented that the nuclear program was up and running. That's all INR dissented on. They were right there with the chems and the bios.

In explaining its dissent on Iraq's nuclear program, the INR had, as stated in the NIE of 2002, expressed doubt about

Iraq's efforts to acquire aluminum tubes [which are] central to the argument that Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear-weapons program. . . . INR is not persuaded that the tubes in question are intended for use as centrifuge rotors . . . in Iraq's nuclear-weapons program.

But, according to Wilkerson,

The French came in in the middle of my deliberations at the CIA and said, we have just spun aluminum tubes, and by God, we did it to this RPM, et cetera, et cetera, and it was all, you know, proof positive that the aluminum tubes were not for mortar casings or artillery casings, they were for centrifuges. Otherwise, why would you have such exquisite instruments?

In short, and whether or not it included the secret heart of Hans Blix, "the consensus of the intelligence community," as Wilkerson puts it, "was overwhelming" in the period leading up to the invasion of Iraq that Saddam definitely had an arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, and that he was also in all probability well on the way to rebuilding the nuclear capability that the Israelis had damaged by bombing the Osirak reactor in 1981.

Additional confirmation of this latter point comes from Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under Clinton. "In the late spring of 2002," Pollack has written,

I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did. Three people added that they believed Iraq was also operating a secret calutron plant (a facility for separating uranium isotopes).

No wonder, then, that another conclusion the NIE of 2002 reached with "high confidence" was that

Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months to a year once it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.1




But the consensus on which Bush relied was not born in his own administration. In fact, it was first fully formed in the Clinton administration. Here is Clinton himself, speaking in 1998:

If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons-of-mass-destruction program.

Here is his Secretary of State Madeline Albright, also speaking in 1998:

Iraq is a long way from [the USA], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.

Here is Sandy Berger, Clinton's National Security Adviser, who chimed in at the same time with this flat-out assertion about Saddam:

He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.

Finally, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, was so sure Saddam had stockpiles of WMD that he remained "absolutely convinced" of it even after our failure to find them in the wake of the invasion in March 2003.

Nor did leading Democrats in Congress entertain any doubts on this score. A few months after Clinton and his people made the statements I have just quoted, a group of Democratic Senators, including such liberals as Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, and John Kerry, urged the President

to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons-of-mass-destruction programs.

Nancy Pelosi, the future leader of the Democrats in the House, and then a member of the House Intelligence Committee, added her voice to the chorus:

Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons-of-mass-destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.

This Democratic drumbeat continued and even intensified when Bush succeeded Clinton in 2001, and it featured many who would later pretend to have been deceived by the Bush White House. In a letter to the new President, a number of Senators led by Bob Graham declared:

There is no doubt that . . . Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical, and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf war status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.

Senator Carl Levin also reaffirmed for Bush's benefit what he had told Clinton some years earlier:

Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton agreed, speaking in October 2002:

In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical- and biological-weapons stock, his missile-delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members.

Senator Jay Rockefeller, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, agreed as well:

There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. . . . We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.

Even more striking were the sentiments of Bush's opponents in his two campaigns for the presidency. Thus Al Gore in September 2002:

We know that [Saddam] has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.

And here is Gore again, in that same year:

Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.

Now to John Kerry, also speaking in 2002:

I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force?-if necessary?-to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.




Perhaps most startling of all, given the rhetoric that they would later employ against Bush after the invasion of Iraq, are statements made by Senators Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd, also in 2002:

Kennedy: We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.

Byrd: The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical- and biological-warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons.2

Liberal politicians like these were seconded by the mainstream media, in whose columns a very different tune would later be sung. For example, throughout the last two years of the Clinton administration, editorials in the New York Times repeatedly insisted that

without further outside intervention, Iraq should be able to rebuild weapons and missile plants within a year [and] future military attacks may be required to diminish the arsenal again.

The Times was also skeptical of negotiations, pointing out that it was

hard to negotiate with a tyrant who has no intention of honoring his commitments and who sees nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons as his country's salvation.

So, too, the Washington Post, which greeted the inauguration of George W. Bush in January 2001 with the admonition that

[o]f all the booby traps left behind by the Clinton administration, none is more dangerous?-or more urgent?-than the situation in Iraq. Over the last year, Mr. Clinton and his team quietly avoided dealing with, or calling attention to, the almost complete unraveling of a decade's efforts to isolate the regime of Saddam Hussein and prevent it from rebuilding its weapons of mass destruction. That leaves President Bush to confront a dismaying panorama in the Persian Gulf [where] intelligence photos . . . show the reconstruction of factories long suspected of producing chemical and biological weapons.3




All this should surely suffice to prove far beyond any even unreasonable doubt that Bush was telling what he believed to be the truth about Saddam's stockpile of WMD. It also disposes of the fallback charge that Bush lied by exaggerating or hyping the intelligence presented to him. Why on earth would he have done so when the intelligence itself was so compelling that it convinced everyone who had direct access to it, and when hardly anyone in the world believed that Saddam had, as he claimed, complied with the sixteen resolutions of the Security Council demanding that he get rid of his weapons of mass destruction?

Another fallback charge is that Bush, operating mainly through Cheney, somehow forced the CIA into telling him what he wanted to hear. Yet in its report of 2004, the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee, while criticizing the CIA for relying on what in hindsight looked like weak or faulty intelligence, stated that it

did not find any evidence that administration officials attempted to coerce, influence, or pressure analysts to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons-of-mass-destruction capabilities.

The March 2005 report of the equally bipartisan Robb-Silberman commission, which investigated intelligence failures on Iraq, reached the same conclusion, finding

no evidence of political pressure to influence the intelligence community's pre-war assessments of Iraq's weapons programs. . . . [A]nalysts universally asserted that in no instance did political pressure cause them to skew or alter any of their analytical judgments.

Still, even many who believed that Saddam did possess WMD, and was ruthless enough to use them, accused Bush of telling a different sort of lie by characterizing the risk as "imminent." But this, too, is false: Bush consistently rejected imminence as a justification for war.4 Thus, in the State of the Union address he delivered only three months after 9/11, Bush declared that he would "not wait on events while dangers gather" and that he would "not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer." Then, in a speech at West Point six months later, he reiterated the same point: "If we wait for threats to materialize, we will have waited too long." And as if that were not clear enough, he went out of his way in his State of the Union address in 2003 (that is, three months before the invasion), to bring up the word "imminent" itself precisely in order to repudiate it:

Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option.

What of the related charge that it was still another "lie" to suggest, as Bush and his people did, that a connection could be traced between Saddam Hussein and the al-Qaeda terrorists who had attacked us on 9/11? This charge was also rejected by the Senate Intelligence Committee. Contrary to how its findings were summarized in the mainstream media, the committee's report explicitly concluded that al Qaeda did in fact have a cooperative, if informal, relationship with Iraqi agents working under Saddam. The report of the bipartisan 9/11 commission came to the same conclusion, as did a comparably independent British investigation conducted by Lord Butler, which pointed to "meetings . . . between senior Iraqi representatives and senior al-Qaeda operatives."5




Which brings us to Joseph C. Wilson, IV and what to my mind wins the palm for the most disgraceful instance of all.

The story begins with the notorious sixteen words inserted?-after, be it noted, much vetting by the CIA and the State Department?-into Bush's 2003 State of the Union address:

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.

This is the "lie" Wilson bragged of having "debunked" after being sent by the CIA to Niger in 2002 to check out the intelligence it had received to that effect. Wilson would later angrily deny that his wife had recommended him for this mission, and would do his best to spread the impression that choosing him had been the Vice President's idea. But Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times, through whom Wilson first planted this impression, was eventually forced to admit that "Cheney apparently didn't know that Wilson had been dispatched." (By the time Kristof grudgingly issued this retraction, Wilson himself, in characteristically shameless fashion, was denying that he had ever "said the Vice President sent me or ordered me sent.") And as for his wife's supposed non-role in his mission, here is what Valerie Plame Wilson wrote in a memo to her boss at the CIA:

My husband has good relations with the PM [the prime minister of Niger] and the former minister of mines . . . , both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.

More than a year after his return, with the help of Kristof, and also Walter Pincus of the Washington Post, and then through an op-ed piece in the Times under his own name, Wilson succeeded, probably beyond his wildest dreams, in setting off a political firestorm.

In response, the White House, no doubt hoping to prevent his allegation about the sixteen words from becoming a proxy for the charge that (in Wilson's latest iteration of it) "lies and disinformation [were] used to justify the invasion of Iraq," eventually acknowledged that the President's statement "did not rise to the level of inclusion in the State of the Union address." As might have been expected, however, this panicky response served to make things worse rather than better. And yet it was totally unnecessary?-for the maddeningly simple reason that every single one of the sixteen words at issue was true.

That is, British intelligence had assured the CIA that Saddam Hussein had tried to buy enriched uranium from the African country of Niger. Furthermore?-and notwithstanding the endlessly repeated assertion that this assurance has now been discredited?-Britain's independent Butler commission concluded that it was "well-founded." The relevant passage is worth quoting at length:

a. It is accepted by all parties that Iraqi officials visited Niger in 1999.

b. The British government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger's exports, the intelligence was credible.

c. The evidence was not conclusive that Iraq actually purchased, as opposed to having sought, uranium, and the British government did not claim this.




As if that were not enough to settle the matter, Wilson himself, far from challenging the British report when he was "debriefed" on his return from Niger (although challenging it is what he now never stops doing6), actually strengthened the CIA's belief in its accuracy. From the Senate Intelligence Committee report:

He [the CIA reports officer] said he judged that the most important fact in the report [by Wilson] was that Niger officials admitted that the Iraqi delegation had traveled there in 1999, and that the Niger prime minister believed the Iraqis were interested in purchasing uranium.

And again:

The report on [Wilson's] trip to Niger . . . did not change any analysts' assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original CIA reports on the uranium deal.

This passage goes on to note that the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research?-which (as we have already seen) did not believe that Saddam Hussein was trying to develop nuclear weapons?-found support in Wilson's report for its "assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq." But if so, this, as the Butler report quoted above points out, would not mean that Iraq had not tried to buy it?-which was the only claim made by British intelligence and then by Bush in the famous sixteen words.

The liar here, then, was not Bush but Wilson. And Wilson also lied when he told the Washington Post that he had unmasked as forgeries certain documents given to American intelligence (by whom it is not yet clear) that supposedly contained additional evidence of Saddam's efforts to buy uranium from Niger. The documents did indeed turn out to be forgeries; but, according to the Butler report,

[t]he forged documents were not available to the British government at the time its assessment was made, and so the fact of the forgery does not undermine [that assessment].7

More damning yet to Wilson, the Senate Intelligence Committee discovered that he had never laid eyes on the documents in question:

[Wilson] also told committee staff that he was the source of a Washington Post article . . . which said, "among the envoy's conclusions was that the documents may have been forged because ?'the dates were wrong and the names were wrong.'" Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the "dates were wrong and the names were wrong" when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports.

To top all this off, just as Cheney had nothing to do with the choice of Wilson for the mission to Niger, neither was it true that, as Wilson "confirmed" for a credulous New Republic reporter, "the CIA circulated [his] report to the Vice President's office," thereby supposedly proving that Cheney and his staff "knew the Niger story was a flatout lie." Yet?-the mind reels?-if Cheney had actually been briefed on Wilson's oral report to the CIA (which he was not), he would, like the CIA itself, have been more inclined to believe that Saddam had tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger.

So much for the author of the best-selling and much acclaimed book whose title alone?-The Politics of Truth: Inside the Lies that Led to War and Betrayed My Wife's CIA Identity?-has set a new record for chutzpah.




But there is worse. In his press conference on the indictment against Libby, Patrick Fitzgerald insisted that lying to federal investigators is a serious crime both because it is itself against the law and because, by sending them on endless wild-goose chases, it constitutes the even more serious crime of obstruction of justice. By those standards, Wilson?-who has repeatedly made false statements about every aspect of his mission to Niger, including whose idea it was to send him and what he told the CIA upon his return; who was then shown up by the Senate Intelligence Committee as having lied about the forged documents; and whose mendacity has sent the whole country into a wild-goose chase after allegations that, the more they are refuted, the more they keep being repeated?-is himself an excellent candidate for criminal prosecution.

And so long as we are hunting for liars in this area, let me suggest that we begin with the Democrats now proclaiming that they were duped, and that we then broaden out to all those who in their desperation to delegitimize the larger policy being tested in Iraq?-the policy of making the Middle East safe for America by making it safe for democracy?-have consistently used distortion, misrepresentation, and selective perception to vilify as immoral a bold and noble enterprise and to brand as an ignominious defeat what is proving itself more and more every day to be a victory of American arms and a vindication of American ideals.

?-November 7, 2005


NORMAN PODHORETZ is the editor-at-large of COMMENTARY and the author of ten books. The most recent, The Norman Podhoretz Reader, edited by Thomas L. Jeffers, appeared in 2004. His essays on the Bush Doctrine and Iraq, including "World War IV: How It Started, What It Means, and Why We Have to Win" (September 2004) and "The War Against World War IV" (February 2005), can be found by clicking here.

1 Hard as it is to believe, let alone to reconcile with his general position, Joseph C. Wilson, IV, in a speech he delivered three months after the invasion at the Education for Peace in Iraq Center, offhandedly made the following remark: "I remain of the view that we will find biological and chemical weapons and we may well find something that indicates that Saddam's regime maintained an interest in nuclear weapons."

2 Fuller versions of these and similar statements can be found at http://www.theconversationcafe.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3134.htmland. Another source is http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php.

3 These and numerous other such quotations were assembled by Robert Kagan in a piece published in the Washington Post on October 25, 2005.

4 Whereas both John Edwards, later to become John Kerry's running mate in 2004, and Jay Rockefeller, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, actually did use the word in describing the threat posed by Saddam.

5 In early November, the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee, who last year gave their unanimous assent to its report, were suddenly mounting a last-ditch effort to take it back on this issue (and others). But to judge from the material they had already begun leaking by November 7, when this article was going to press, the newest "Bush lied" case is as empty and dishonest as the one they themselves previously rejected.

6 Here is how he put it in a piece in the Los Angeles Times written in late October of this year to celebrate the indictment of Libby: "I knew that the statement in Bush's speech . . . was not true. I knew it was false from my own investigative trip to Africa. . . . And I knew that the White House knew it."

7 More extensive citations of the relevant passages from the Butler report can be found in postings by Daniel McKivergan at www.worldwidestandard.com. I have also drawn throughout on materials cited by the invaluable Stephen F. Hayes in the Weekly Standard.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 02:30 am
According to Henry Porter in Today's The Obser, the US president is destroying the constitution and few Americans seem to care or even notice:

Even a bag-lady can teach Bush about human rights
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 03:04 am
I read your post, Walter Hinteler.

Here it is in part--

What Bush is doing in the run-up to the midterm elections is a disgrace equal to any other scandal of his nasty, incipiently despotic, regime. Using the hallowed anniversary of 9/11, he has demanded Congress pass a law that enables the major terrorist suspects, until now held in CIA secret prisons all over the world, to be transferred and tried at Guantanamo.

The proposed courts would allow evidence obtained by what is politely called in America 'coercive interrogation' as well as hearsay and would deny the suspects' rights to see evidence against them because it is deemed by the government to be classified. Because these courts plainly fly in the face of the rights enshrined by the American constitution and the Geneva Convention, the Supreme Court ruled against them last June.

This was hardly going to deter Bush and Dick Cheney. Last week, the President made a speech to an audience of sympathisers in the White House, many of whom had lost people in the attacks five years ago, to promote this legislation. If enacted, it will set Congress and the executive against the Supreme Court and the United States against international standards of decency and the rule of law.

Whatever Congress decides, nothing can change the court's original opinion that the United States would be in violation of article three of the Geneva Convention, which only allows for trials in regular courts that afford 'the guarantees which are recognised as indispensable by civilised people'

end of quote

Several points are pertinent--he says 'BUSH HAS DEMANDED THAT THE CONGRESS PASS A LAW"

CONGRESS DOES NOT HAVE TO PASS A LAW.

CONGRESS CAN DO AS IT WISHES


Another point-The "proposed courts" referred to in the article are NOT being set up by the Executive Department but by the CONGRESS.

Another point--Whatever Congress decides says the writer--NOT whatever the President decides--whatever the Congress decides---They would be in violation of Article Three.

Really? Does Mr. Porter really think that the Congress will set up guidelines that are not in line with Article Three?

Mr. Porter has not read the USSC's decision. The USSC urged the Congress(NOT THE PRESIDENT) to set up provisions that would not violate the guidelines laid down by the USSC.

No one has seen those provisions yet. Mr. Porter appears to be just a big bag of wind!!!
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 05:00 am
Let's see, our idiot for president says, after no WMD's were found, that we invaded Iraq to bring freedom to that country. In the meantime Bush would like to, but can't, attack Iran, a democracy that elects their president. And our best friend is Saudi Arabia, who never elects its king.

Quote:
Religious police ban cats and dogs
By Donna Abu-Nasr in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Published: 10 September 2006

Saudi Arabia's religious police, the Muttawa, are normally tasked with chiding women to cover themselves and ensuring men attend mosque. Now they are turning to a new target: cats and dogs. They have issued a decree banning the sale of the pets, seen as a sign of Western influence.

The prohibition on dogs is unsurprising, since conservative Muslims despise the animals as unclean. But the cat ban has astonished many, since Islamic tradition holds that the Prophet Mohamed loved cats ­ even in one instance letting a cat drink from his ablutions water before washing himself for prayers.

The Muttawa enforce Saudi Arabia's strict Islamic code, prowling streets and malls to ensure unmarried men and women do not mix, confronting women they feel are not properly covered and urging men to go to prayers. But they have wide leeway to enforce any rules they deem necessary to uphold the social order.

The new decree, which applies to the Red Sea port of Jeddah and the holy city of Mecca, bans the sale of cats and dogs because "some youths have been buying them and parading them in public," says the Municipal Affairs Ministry.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 05:40 am
Is Bush incompatent or is it the conservative agenda?

Quote:
Bush Is Not Incompetent
By George Lakoff and Marc Ettlinger and Sam Ferguson, AlterNet. Posted July 3, 2006.

Bush's bumbling folksiness causes progressives to disregard him -- but he has been overwhelmingly competent in advancing his harmful conservative agenda.

Progressives have fallen into a trap. Emboldened by President Bush's plummeting approval ratings, progressives increasingly point to Bush's "failures" and label him and his administration as incompetent. For example, Nancy Pelosi said "The situation in Iraq and the reckless economic policies in the United States speak to one issue for me, and that is the competence of our leader."

Self-satisfying as this criticism may be, it misses the bigger point. Bush's disasters -- Katrina, the Iraq War, the budget deficit -- are not so much a testament to his incompetence or a failure of execution. Rather, they are the natural, even inevitable result of his conservative governing philosophy. It is conservatism itself, carried out according to plan, that is at fault. Bush will not be running again, but other conservatives will. His governing philosophy is theirs as well. We should be putting the onus where it belongs, on all conservative office holders and candidates who would lead us off the same cliff.

To Bush's base, his bumbling folksiness is part of his charm -- it fosters conservative populism. Bush plays up this image by proudly stating his lack of interest in reading and current events, his fondness for naps and vacations and his self-deprecating jokes. This image causes the opposition to underestimate his capacities -- disregarding him as a complete idiot -- and deflects criticism of his conservative allies. If incompetence is the problem, it's all about Bush. But, if conservatism is the problem, it is about a set of ideas, a movement and its many adherents.

The idea that Bush is incompetent is a curious one. Consider the following (incomplete) list of major initiatives the Bush administration, with a loyal conservative Congress, has accomplished:

Centralizing power within the executive branch to an unprecedented degree

Starting two major wars, one started with questionable intelligence and in a manner with which the military disagreed

Placing on the Supreme Court two far-right justices, and stacking the lower federal courts with many more

Cutting taxes during wartime, an unprecedented event

Passing a number of controversial bills such as the PATRIOT Act, the No Child Left Behind Act, the Medicare Drug bill, the Bankruptcy bill and a number of massive tax cuts

Rolling back and refusing to enforce a host of basic regulatory protections
Appointing industry officials to oversee regulatory agencies

Establishing a greater role for religion through faith-based initiatives

Passing Orwellian-titled legislation assaulting the environment -- "The Healthy Forests Act" and the "Clear Skies Initiative" -- to deforest public lands, and put more pollution in our skies

Winning re-election and solidifying his party's grip on Congress


These aren't signs of incompetence. As should be painfully clear, the Bush administration has been overwhelmingly competent in advancing its conservative vision. It has been all too effective in achieving its goals by determinedly pursuing a conservative philosophy.

It's not Bush the man who has been so harmful, it's the conservative agenda.

The Conservative Agenda
Conservative philosophy has three fundamental tenets: individual initiative, that is, government's positive role in people's lives outside of the military and police should be minimized; the President is the moral authority; and free markets are enough to foster freedom and opportunity.

The conservative vision for government is to shrink it - to "starve the beast" in Conservative Grover Norquist's words. The conservative tagline for this rationale is that "you can spend your money better than the government can." Social programs are considered unnecessary or "discretionary" since the primary role of government is to defend the country's border and police its interior. Stewardship of the commons, such as allocation of healthcare or energy policy, is left to people's own initiative within the free market. Where profits cannot be made -- conservation, healthcare for the poor -- charity is meant to replace justice and the government should not be involved.

Given this philosophy, then, is it any wonder that the government wasn't there for the residents of Louisiana and Mississippi in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina? Conservative philosophy places emphasis on the individual acting alone, independent of anything the government could provide. Some conservative Sunday morning talk show guests suggested that those who chose to live in New Orleans accepted the risk of a devastating hurricane, the implication being that they thus forfeited any entitlement to government assistance. If the people of New Orleans suffered, it was because of their own actions, their own choices and their own lack of preparedness. Bush couldn't have failed if he bore no responsibility.

The response to Hurricane Katrina -- rather, the lack of response -- was what one should expect from a philosophy that espouses that the government can have no positive role in its citizen's lives. This response was not about Bush's incompetence, it was a conservative, shrink-government response to a natural disaster.

Another failure of this administration during the Katrina fiasco was its wholesale disregard of the numerous and serious hurricane warnings. But this failure was a natural outgrowth of the conservative insistence on denying the validity of global warming, not ineptitude. Conservatives continue to deny the validity of global warming, because it runs contrary to their moral system. Recognizing global warming would call for environmental regulation and governmental efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Regulation is a perceived interference with the free-market, Conservatives' golden calf. So, the predictions of imminent hurricanes -- based on recognizing global warming -- were not heeded. Conservative free market convictions trumped the hurricane warnings.

Our budget deficit is not the result of incompetent fiscal management. It too is an outgrowth of conservative philosophy. What better way than massive deficits to rid social programs of their funding?

In Iraq, we also see the impact of philosophy as much as a failure of execution.

The idea for the war itself was born out of deep conservative convictions about the nature and capacity of US military force. Among the Project for a New American Century's statement of principles (signed in 1997 by a who's who of the architects of the Iraq war -- Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis Libby among others) are four critical points:

we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future

we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values

we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad

we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.


Implicit in these ideas is that the United States military can spread democracy through the barrel of a gun. Our military might and power can be a force for good.

It also indicates that the real motive behind the Iraq war wasn't to stop Iraq's pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, but was a test of neoconservative theory that the US military could reshape Middle East geo-politics. The manipulation and disregard of intelligence to sell the war was not incompetence, it was the product of a conservative agenda.

Unfortunately, this theory exalts a hubristic vision over the lessons of history. It neglects the realization that there is a limit to a foreign army's ability to shape foreign politics for the good. Our military involvement in Vietnam, Lebanon, the Philippines, Cuba (prior to Castro) and Panama, or European imperialist endeavors around the globe should have taught us this lesson. Democracy needs to be an organic, homegrown movement, as it was in this country. If we believe so deeply in our ideals, they will speak for themselves and inspire others.

During the debate over Iraq, the conservative belief in the unquestioned authority and moral leadership of the President helped shape public support. We see this deference to the President constantly: when Conservatives call those questioning the President's military decisions "unpatriotic"; when Conservatives defend the executive branch's use of domestic spying in the war on terror; when Bush simply refers to himself as the "decider." "I support our President" was a common justification of assent to the Iraq policy.

Additionally, as the implementer of the neoconservative vision and an unquestioned moral authority, our President felt he had no burden to forge international consensus or listen to the critiques of our allies. "You're with us, or you're against us," he proclaimed after 9/11.

Much criticism continues to be launched against this administration for ineptitude in its reconstruction efforts. Tragically, it is here too that the administration's actions have been shaped less by ineptitude than by deeply held conservative convictions about the role of government.

As noted above, Conservatives believe that government's role is limited to security and maintaining a free market. Given this conviction, it's no accident that administration policies have focused almost exclusively on the training of Iraqi police, and US access to the newly free Iraqi market -- the invisible hand of the market will take care of the rest. Indeed, George Packer has recently reported that the reconstruction effort in Iraq is nearing its end ("The Lessons of Tal Affar," The New Yorker, April 10th, 2006). Iraqis must find ways to rebuild themselves, and the free market we have constructed for them is supposed to do this. This is not ineptitude. This is the result of deep convictions over the nature of freedom and the responsibilities of governments to their people.

Finally, many of the miscalculations are the result of a conservative analytic focus on narrow causes and effects, rather than mere incompetence. Evidence for this focus can be seen in conservative domestic policies: Crime policy is based on punishing the criminals, independent of any effort to remedy the larger social issues that cause crime; immigration policy focuses on border issues and the immigrants, and ignores the effects of international and domestic economic policy on population migration; environmental policy is based on what profits there are to be gained or lost today, without attention paid to what the immeasurable long-term costs will be to the shared resource of our environment; education policy, in the form of vouchers, ignores the devastating effects that dismantling the public school system will have on our whole society.

Is it any surprise that the systemic impacts of the Iraq invasion were not part of the conservative moral or strategic calculus used in pursuing the war?

The conservative war rhetoric focused narrowly on ousting Saddam -- he was an evil dictator, and evil cannot be tolerated, period. The moral implications of unleashing social chaos and collateral damage in addition to the lessons of history were not relevant concerns.

As a consequence, we expected to be greeted as liberators. The conservative plan failed to appreciate the complexities of the situation that would have called for broader contingency planning. It lacked an analysis of what else would happen in Iraq and the Middle East as a result of ousting the Hussein Government, such as an Iranian push to obtain nuclear weapons.

Joe Biden recently said, "if I had known the president was going to be this incompetent in his administration, I would not have given him the authority [to go to war]." Had Bush actually been incompetent, he would have never been able to lead us to war in Iraq. Had Bush been incompetent, he would not have been able to ram through hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts. Had Bush been incompetent, he would have been blocked from stacking the courts with right-wing judges. Incompetence, on reflection, might have actually been better for the country.

Hidden Successes
Perhaps the biggest irony of the Bush-is-incompetent frame is that these "failures" -- Iraq, Katrina and the budget deficit -- have been successes in terms of advancing the conservative agenda.

One of the goals of Conservatives is to keep people from relying on the federal government. Under Bush, FEMA was reorganized to no longer be a first responder in major natural disasters, but to provide support for local agencies. This led to the disastrous response to Hurricane Katrina. Now citizens, as well as local and state governments, have become distrustful of the federal government's capacity to help ordinary citizens. Though Bush's popularity may have suffered, enhancing the perception of federal government as inept turned out to be a conservative victory.

Conservatives also strive to get rid of protective agencies and social programs. The deficit Bush created through irresponsible tax cuts and a costly war in Iraq will require drastic budget cuts to remedy. Those cuts, conservatives know, won't come from military spending, particularly when they raise the constant specter of war. Instead, the cuts will be from what Conservatives have begun to call "non-military, discretionary spending;" that is, the programs that contribute to the common good like the FDA, EPA, FCC, FEMA, OSHA and the NLRB. Yet another success for the conservative agenda.

Both Iraq and Katrina have enriched the coffers of the conservative corporate elite, thus further advancing the conservative agenda. Halliburton, Lockhead Martin and US oil companies have enjoyed huge profit margins in the last six years. Taking Iraq's oil production off-line in the face of rising international demand meant prices would rise, making the oil inventories of Exxon and other firms that much more valuable, leading to record profits. The destruction wrought by Katrina and Iraq meant billions in reconstruction contracts. The war in Iraq (and the war in Afghanistan) meant billions in military equipment contracts. Was there any doubt where those contracts would go? Chalk up another success for Bush's conservative agenda.

Bush also used Katrina as an opportunity to suspend the environmental and labor protection laws that Conservatives despise so much. In the wake of Katrina, environmental standards for oil refineries were temporarily suspended to increase production. Labor laws are being thwarted to drive down the cost of reconstruction efforts. So, amidst these "disasters," Conservatives win again.

Where most Americans see failure in Iraq - George Miller recently called Iraq a "blunder of historic proportions" - conservative militarists are seeing many successes. Conservatives stress the importance of our military -- our national pride and worth is expressed through its power and influence. Permanent bases are being constructed as planned in Iraq, and America has shown the rest of the world that we can and will preemptively strike with little provocation. They succeeded in a mobilization of our military forces based on ideological pretenses to impact foreign policy. The war has struck fear in other nations with a hostile show of American power. The conservatives have succeeded in strengthening what they perceive to be the locus of the national interest --military power.

It's Not Incompetence
When Progressives shout "Incompetence!" it obscures the many conservative successes. The incompetence frame drastically misses the point, that the conservative vision is doing great harm to this country and the world. An understanding of this and an articulate progressive response is needed. Progressives know that government can and should have a positive role in our lives beyond simple, physical security. It had a positive impact during the progressive era, busting trusts, and establishing basic labor standards. It had a positive impact during the new deal, softening the blow of the depression by creating jobs and stimulating the economy. It had a positive role in advancing the civil rights movement, extending rights to previously disenfranchised groups. And the United States can have a positive role in world affairs without the use of its military and expressions of raw power. Progressives acknowledge that we are all in this together, with "we" meaning all people, across all spectrums of race, class, religion, sex, sexual preference and age. "We" also means across party lines, state lines and international borders.

The mantra of incompetence has been an unfortunate one. The incompetence frame assumes that there was a sound plan, and that the trouble has been in the execution. It turns public debate into a referendum on Bush's management capabilities, and deflects a critique of the impact of his guiding philosophy. It also leaves open the possibility that voters will opt for another radically conservative president in 2008, so long as he or she can manage better. Bush will not be running again, so thinking, talking and joking about him being incompetent offers no lessons to draw from his presidency.

Incompetence obscures the real issue. Bush's conservative philosophy is what has damaged this country and it is his philosophy of conservatism that must be rejected, whoever endorses it.

Conservatism itself is the villain that is harming our people, destroying our environment, and weakening our nation. Conservatives are undermining American values through legislation almost every day. This message applies to every conservative bill proposed to Congress. The issue that arises every day is which philosophy of governing should shape our country. It is the issue of our times. Unless conservative philosophy itself is discredited, Conservatives will continue their domination of public discourse, and with it, will continue their domination of politics.

George Lakoff is the author of Don't Think of an Elephant: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate' (Chelsea Green). He is professor of linguistics at the University of California at Berkeley and a Senior Fellow of the Rockridge Institute
.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 06:16 am
mysteryman wrote:
blatham wrote:
Lots of bucks involved. 40 million for production and big-time presold advertising hours. The forces pushing ABC to air won't be small.

ABC has clearly overlayed this thing with the imprimateur of "historical fact following the commission report" and their tie-in with Scholastic and classroom lessons plans points that up pretty acutely.

Something like what Keitel suggests seems the way to go. Reshoot where necessary, along with editing where that is sufficient, then go ahead and air it. But get the facts right. It's an important bit of history.


Did you suggest "get the facts right" when the "documentary" about Richard Nixon was aired?
Somehow,I dont think so.
Yet you are now whining about a "docudrama" that ABC has said is LOOSELY based on the 9/11 report.

Why the double standard from you?


I'm not familiar with the documentary on Nixon. I am familiar with the 1940s movie on Lincoln however and confess I raised no voice of protest at historical inaccuracies in that film.

You are apparently familiar with the Nixon documentary. Did you raise objections re accuracy then and do you do so now?

Documentaries are frequently crafted as polemics. But of course, where one (or its creators) might claim up front that it is historically accurate and that it is an unbiased compilation or narrative based on a text which is itself based on a critically important (to the nation's citizens) investigation such as the 9/11 Report, then as a matter of principle and honesty, it ought to be exactly as it claims itself to be.

As I noted, all of this becomes even more acute where there's a tie in with the nation's educational system. You might imagine Scholastic issuing lesson plans for junior high schools based on Moore's Fahrenheit.

Additionally, you'll probably want to differentiate based on relevance to the present. You won't object much to factual inaccuracies in that Lincoln film because they wouldn't have much real relevance to modern political matters in the US. Or you could imagine a televised documentary which has imagined, but fairly benign, address to Kennedy's extra-marital affairs. How important would that be to present political discourse?

Pretty obviously, if such a broadcast deals with contemporary persons and contemporary issues of this degree of importance, you have a rather different kettle of fish than a Gerald Ford documentary/docudrama etc.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 07:15 am
And still the determination to not mention Fahrenheit 911 by those on the left is rather telling. Most now slamming the ABC docudrama were aplauding Moore's documentary and criticizng those on the Left for criticizing it. Any errors of fact were either denied or dismissed as irrelevant.

The Democrat's sheer terror of the power of a movie that could point criticism at them is amazing and their hypocrisy and double standard is stunning. Not one criticized Moore's film or thought it should not be aired.
CLINTON LAWYERS WANT ABC FILM YANKED
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 07:21 am
Uh... I just mentioned it.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 08:53 am
blatham wrote:
Uh... I just mentioned it.


I'll concede that you did. And you seem to think it is fine that it was distributed to classrooms. Even as you think the ABC docudrama should not? Am I wrong about that?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 09:32 am
The wages of nonsupervisory workers have not increased since 1973. On top of that, employer-provided benefits have decreased drastically. Meanwhile, the Republican-controlled government is doing nothing to reverse this.


^9/1/06: The Big Disconnect

By PAUL KRUGMAN

There are still some pundits out there lecturing people about how great
the economy is. But most analysts seem to finally realize that Americans
have good reasons to be unhappy with the state of the economy: although
G.D.P. growth has been pretty good for the last few years, most workers
have seen their wages lag behind inflation and their benefits deteriorate.

The disconnect between overall economic growth and the growing
squeeze on many working Americans will probably play a big role this
November, partly because President Bush seems so out of touch: the
more he insists that it's a great economy, the angrier voters seem to get.
But the disconnect didn't begin with Mr. Bush, and it won't end with him,
unless we have a major change in policies.

The stagnation of real wages -- wages adjusted for inflation -- actually
goes back more than 30 years. The real wage of nonsupervisory workers
reached a peak in the early 1970's, at the end of the postwar boom. Since
then workers have sometimes gained ground, sometimes lost it, but they
have never earned as much per hour as they did in 1973.

Meanwhile, the decline of employer benefits began in the Reagan years,
although there was a temporary improvement during the Clinton-era boom.
The most crucial benefit, employment-based health insurance, has been
in rapid decline since 2000.

Ordinary American workers seem to understand the long-term disconnect
between economic growth and their own fortunes better than most political
analysts. Consider, for example, the results of a new poll of American
workers by the Pew Research Center.

The center finds that workers perceive a long-term downward trend in
their economic status. A majority say that it's harder to earn a decent
living than it was 20 or 30 years ago, and a plurality say that job
benefits
are worse too.

Are workers simply viewing the past through rose-colored glasses? The
report seems to imply that they are: a section pointing out that workers
surveyed in 1997 also said that it had gotten harder to make a decent
living is titled, ''As usual, people say things were better in the good old
days.''

But as we've seen, real wages have been declining since the 1970's, so
it makes sense that workers have consistently said that it's harder to make
a living today than it was a generation ago.

On the other side, workers' concern about worsening benefits is new. In
1997, a plurality of workers said that employment benefits were better
than they used to be. That made sense: in 1997, the health care crisis,
which had been a big political issue a few years earlier, seemed to have
gone into remission. Medical costs were relatively stable, and in a tight
labor market, employers were competing to offer improved benefits.
Workers felt, rightly, that benefits were pretty good by historical
standards.

But now the health care crisis is back, both because medical costs are
rising rapidly and because we're living in an increasingly Wal-Martized
economy, in which even big, highly profitable employers offer minimal
benefits. Employment-based insurance began a steep decline with the 2001
recession, and the decline has continued in spite of economic recovery.

The latest Census report on incomes, poverty and health insurance,
released this week, shows that in 2005, four years into the economic
expansion, the percentage of Americans with private insurance of any
kind reached its lowest level since 1987. And Americans feel, again
correctly, that benefits are worse than they used to be.

Why have workers done so badly in a rich nation that keeps getting richer?
That's a matter of dispute, although I believe there's a large political
component: what we see today is the result of a quarter-century of policies
that have systematically reduced workers' bargaining power.

The important question now, however, is whether we're finally going to
try to do something about the big disconnect. Wages may be difficult to
raise, but we won't know until we try. And as for declining benefits --
well, every other advanced country manages to provide everyone with
health insurance, while spending less on health care than we do.

The big disconnect, in other words, provides as good an argument as you
could possibly want for a smart, bold populism. All we need now are some
smart, bold populist politicians.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 09:43 am
Foxfyre wrote:
blatham wrote:
Uh... I just mentioned it.


I'll concede that you did. And you seem to think it is fine that it was distributed to classrooms. Even as you think the ABC docudrama should not? Am I wrong about that?


I don't know what you refer to. What other Scholastic lesson plan distribution coincident with a broadcast do you know of?

If you misunderstood me to be suggesting that Fahrenheit or the Nixon thing ought to have had a school plan associated, I certainly don't think so.

On the other hand, the 9/11 report could and probably should be taught to good educational consequence.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2006 01:28 am
Foxfyre referenced the following:

In New Letter, Clinton's Lawyers Demand ABC Yank Film
By Greg Sargent | bio
On Friday evening, Bill Clinton's lawyers sent a new letter to Disney chief Bob Iger demanding that ABC yank "The Path to 9/11." We've obtained a copy of the letter, and it reads in part: "As a nation, we need to be focused on preventing another attack, not fictionalizing the last one for television ratings. `The Path to 9/11' not only tarnishes the work of the 9/11 Commission, but also cheapens the fith anniversary of what was a very painful moment in history for all Americans. We expect that you will make the responsible decision to not air this film." Full text of the letter after the jump.



The full text:

Dear Bob,

Despite press reports that ABC/Disney has made changes in the content and marketing of "The Path to 9/11," we remailn concerned about the false impression that airing the show will leave on the public. Labelng the show as "fiction" does not meet your responsibility to the victims of the September 11th attacks, their families, the hard work of the 9/11 Commission, or to the American people as a whole.

At a moment when we should be debating how to make the nation safer by implementing the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission, "The Path to 9/11" calls into question the accuracy of the Commission's report and whether fabricated scenes are, in fact, an accurate portrayal of history. Indeed, the millions spent on the production of this fictional drama would have been better spent informing the public about the Commission's actual findings and the many recommendations that have yet to be acted upon. Unlike this film, that would have been a tremendous service to the public.

Although our request for an advance copy of the film has been repeatedly denied, it is all too clear that our objections to "The Path to 9/11" are valid and corroborated by those familiar with the film and intimately involved in its production.

-- Your corporate partner, Scholastic, has disassociated itself from this proect.

-- 9/11 Commission Chairman Thomas Kean, who served as co-executive producer on "The Path to 9/11," has stated that he raised concerns about the accuracy of several scenes in the film and that his concerns were not addressed during production.

-- Harvey Keitel, who plays the star role of FBI agent John O'Neill, told reporters yesterday that while the screenplay was presented to him as a fair treatment of historical events, he is upset that several scenes were simply invented for dramatic purposes.

-- Numerous Members of Congress, several 9/11 Commissioners and prominent historians have spoken out against this movie.

-- Indeed, according to press reports, the fact that you are still editing the film two days before it is scheduled to air is an admission that it is irreparably flawed.

As a nation, we need to be focused on preventing another attack, not fictionalizing the last one for television ratings. "The Path to 9/11" not only tarnishes the work of the 9/11 Commission, but also cheapens the fith anniversary of what was a very painful moment in history for all Americans. We expect that you will make the responsible decision to not air this film.

Sincerely,

Bruce R. Lindsey
Chief Executive Officer
William J. Clinton Foundation

Douglas J. Band
Counselor to President Clinton
Office of William Jefferson Clinton

end of quote



BRUCE R. LINDSEY???? HE IS A BIGGER SCUMBAG THAN CLINTON--

A SHYSTER LAWYER WHO IS A LIAR!!


Whenever President Clinton finds himself in trouble, Bruce R. Lindsey is on the job, the seemingly permanent commander-in-chief of the Clinton shovel brigade. An intense 50-year-old Arkansas lawyer, Lindsey is Clinton's most trusted aide and serves as the invisible "captain of the defense" for the crisis of the moment, as one former White House colleague put it.

Lindsey has been pivotal in planning Clinton's defense against accusations related to Whitewater, campaign finance, Paula Jones and now Monica Lewinsky .

When Lindsey was subpoenaed by Whitewater independent counsel Kenneth Starr to testify before a grand jury investigating the Lewinsky matter, he answered some of the questions put to him. But Lindsey refused to answer questions about conversations he had with Clinton. White House lawyers backed up his refusal by invoking executive privilege and attorney-client privilege, leading to a protracted legal fight with Starr.

After a judge ruled against the White House and ordered Lindsey (and his colleague Sidney Blumenthal) to testify, the White House dropped the executive privilege claim but decided to pursue the attorney-client privilege claim on appeal.




***********************************************************
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2006 09:51 am
blatham wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
blatham wrote:
Uh... I just mentioned it.


I'll concede that you did. And you seem to think it is fine that it was distributed to classrooms. Even as you think the ABC docudrama should not? Am I wrong about that?


I don't know what you refer to. What other Scholastic lesson plan distribution coincident with a broadcast do you know of?

If you misunderstood me to be suggesting that Fahrenheit or the Nixon thing ought to have had a school plan associated, I certainly don't think so.

On the other hand, the 9/11 report could and probably should be taught to good educational consequence.


Sorry if I misunderstood what you are saying. Your tendency to obfusicate, derail, and ignore specific questions makes it very difficult to pull a clear thesis out of your posts sometimes, but that's just a reason, not an excuse.

I said that Fahrenheit 911 was offered free to schools. You ignored that and went on to protest any inaccuracies in an ABC dramatization that is also offered free to schools. You subsequently sort of--I can't be absolutely certain again because of your inability to make a definitive statement about anything other than your contempt for other people--said that you would also object to Fahrenheit 911 being used in schools.

I agree that any docudrama or documentary should be as accurate as can be done before shown to school children as fact. Any teacher worth his/her fault that uses any kind of historical video or movie as class material should be prepared and meticulous in correcting any inadvertent errors of fact included in it.

It was the double standard that was being discussed: i.e. vehement criticism/objections/attempts to stop it from the Democrats of an inaccurate ABC documentary that might or might not make the Clinton administration look bad while tacit approval of anything, accurate, made up, misrepresented, distorted, or otherwise incorrect that makes the Bush administration look bad was applauded or shrugged off as showbiz.

Again, the hypocrisy is stunning.

I agree the 911 Commission report should be taught in schools along with all the background surrounding it and the subsequent corrections and/or clarifications and omissions that have been identified.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2006 10:00 am
Advocate wrote:
The wages of nonsupervisory workers have not increased since 1973. On top of that, employer-provided benefits have decreased drastically. Meanwhile, the Republican-controlled government is doing nothing to reverse this.


^9/1/06: The Big Disconnect

By PAUL KRUGMAN


I agree that there's a 'disconnect', but as these Democrats, in their "Message of Misery" (apt title) argue, the disconnect is on the part of their own miserable party:

Quote:
The second step is to admit that our deficit is as much due to economic disconnects as cultural and national security disconnects. That may be harder for Democrats to swallow. Many believe the middle class have been duped by a what's-the-matter-with-Kansas scheme in which clever conservatives trick the beleaguered middle class to vote against their own economic interests through the use of irresistible cultural wedge issues and national security concerns.

[...]

Part of the problem is that Democrats have been misled about the state of the middle class. Progressive economists typically peg median household income at about $45,000. But that includes households headed by 22-year olds (who are on their way up) and 76-year olds (who live on fixed incomes that may be small but are often comfortable since they have no dependents and limited work related expenses).

Among households headed by prime age Americans - adults between the ages of 26 and 59 - the median household income is about $63,000. For prime age married households the median income is over $70,000, and it is nearly $80,000 for two-earner prime age households.<SUP>6 The point is that Democrats have a view of the middle class that is at one place on the income spectrum, when the reality is in a very different place.

Message of Misery from the Democrats
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2006 10:02 am
I wasn't aware that Fahrenheit had been offered to schools. Who offered it? Was there an organizational tie-in with some educational publisher like Scholastic? Did that publisher actually produce such?

If an educational publisher did produce/market such a set of lesson plans, based on a polemic, then that would be grossly inappropriate. The inappropriateness (the issue is propaganda vs education) would be even more acute for a school accepting such inito curricula.

I don't care if something in this ABC production made the Clinton administration "look bad", so long as the events portrayed are historically accurate.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2006 10:05 am
Quote:
while tacit approval of anything, accurate, made up, misrepresented, distorted, or otherwise incorrect that makes the Bush administration look bad was applauded or shrugged off as showbiz
.

And I did this where?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2006 10:10 am
blatham wrote:
I wasn't aware that Fahrenheit had been offered to schools. Who offered it? Was there an organizational tie-in with some educational publisher like Scholastic? Did that publisher actually produce such?

If an educational publisher did produce/market such a set of lesson plans, based on a polemic, then that would be grossly inappropriate. The inappropriateness (the issue is propaganda vs education) would be even more acute for a school accepting such inito curricula.

I don't care if something in this ABC production made the Clinton administration "look bad", so long as the events portrayed are historically accurate.


Roger Moore or the organization distributing it offered it and I know at least two local teachers who took him/it up on it. I don't know whether it was offered through any scholastic organization or whether there were lesson plans to go along with it.

At any rate that was not my point. My point was the double standard in reactions to these two films both targeted at the same event was impossible to miss and how hypocritical that double standard is.

We do not disagree that the greatest accuracy possible should be the policy in school curriculum. I wish we could agree that ideology should play absolutely no role whatsoever in what is considered accurate.
0 Replies
 
 

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