THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

cicerone imposter wrote:

ican, Why do you continue to mischaracterize what the UN authorized?
...

What are you posting about?

This is my post and there is zero reference to the UN in my post:

ican711nm wrote:

Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002 (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf

numbers added by ican

Congress wrote:

...
[10]Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

[11]Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;

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ican, The real issues are here:

Bush lied.

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2003 invasion of Iraq
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2003 Invasion of Iraq

Iran-Iraq War - Gulf War - 2003 invasion of Iraq - Iraq War
The 2003 invasion of Iraq, termed "Operation Iraqi Freedom" by the US administration, began on March 20. The United States and Britain supplied 98% of the invading forces. Other nations also participated due to U.S. president George W. Bush's efforts to build a coalition to help with the operation. The 2003 Iraq invasion marked the beginning of what is commonly referred to as the Iraq War. Prior to the invasion, the United States' official position was that Iraq illegally possessed "weapons of mass destruction" in violation of UN Security Council Resolution 1441 and had to be disarmed by force. [1] Bush repeatedly asserted that these weapons posed a grave threat to the United States and its allies. [2][3] UN inspection teams were searching Iraq for these alleged weapons for nearly four months prior to the invasion and were willing to continue, but were forced out by the onset of war in spite of their requests for more time. [4][5].

The Bush administration failed to get a U.N. endorsement for war against Iraq on March 17, 2003 and began the invasion on March 20, 2003, which is seen by many as a violation of international law, breaking the UN Charter (see Legitimacy of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. [6] The Iraqi Military was defeated, and Baghdad fell on April 9, 2003. On May 1, 2003, U.S. President George W. Bush declared the end of major combat operations, terminating the Ba'ath Party's rule and removing Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from office. Coalition forces ultimately captured Saddam Hussein on December 13, 2003.

Careful inspections after Iraq's capitulation failed to find weapons of mass destruction.[7][8] Post-invasion Iraq has experienced violence from warring sects and an Iraqi insurgency. Numerous terrorist groups have become active in the area. Elections were held in January 2005.

Contents [hide]
1 Political and diplomatic aspects
2 Prelude
3 Rationale
4 Military aspects
5 Invasion
5.1 Opening attack
5.2 Special Operations
5.3 Fall of Baghdad (April 2003)
5.4 Other areas
5.5 Summary of the invasion
5.6 Security, looting and war damage
5.7 "End of major combat operations" (May 2003)

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The Cherry Picker in Chief.

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emphasis added by ican

Cycloptichorn wrote:

All I could think of when I read this story was, 'holy ****. Is Miller lying?'

Quote:
Former NY Times reporter Judith Miller to assert she was warned of large scale attack before 9/11
RAW STORY
Published: Thursday May 18, 2006

Print This | Email This

In AN ALTERNET EXCLUSIVE THURSDAY, former New York Times reporter Judy Miller tells Rory O'Connor and William Scott Malone about the story she'll regret for the rest of her life -- the fact that an anonymous White House source told her in July 2001 that an NSA intelligence report predicted a large al Qaeda attack, possibly on the continental United States, RAW STORY has learned.
...

Cycloptichorn

Miller is not lying about this.

This early warning was confirmed in the 9/11 Commission Report back in September 2004. The 9/11 Commission Report also mentioned President Clinton's conversation with President Bush shortly after Bush was inaugurated, wherein President Clinton warned of the same thing. Unfortunately, at that time President Bush had inherited the so called "intelligence wall" from President Clinton that made it very difficult to verify what al-Qaeda was actually upto prior to 9/11.

Also, unfortunately, the fallible President Bush was not intelligent enough to tear down that wall until after 9/11.

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Despite all the many dire warnings Bushie had this to say about al qaeda and bin Laden "I was not on point ... I didn't feel that sense of urgency". Criminal negligence?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
2003 invasion of Iraq
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...

This article is true!

This is also true:

Quote:

Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002 (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf

numbers added by ican

Congress wrote:

...
[10]Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

[11]Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;

Bush really blundered about WMD in Iraq. He should have been smart enough to realize that the sufficient reason for invading Iraq was identical to the sufficient reason for invading Afghanistan. Both the governments of Afghanistan and Iraq ignored our requests to remove al-Qaeda from their countries where they were harbored prior to our invasions.

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blueflame1 wrote:

Despite all the many dire warnings Bushie had this to say about al qaeda and bin Laden "I was not on point ... I didn't feel that sense of urgency". Criminal negligence?

That's what you get when you are limited to electing the least worst candidate. Crying or Very sad

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"Hayden acknowledged a series of intelligence failures in the run-up to the U.S. decision to invade Iraq and promised to take steps to guard against a repeat of such errors.

"We just took too much for granted. We didn't challenge our basic assumptions," he told the Senate Intelligence Committee at his confirmation hearing." http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060514143709990001

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Quote:

Americas

Times Online May 19, 2006

Detainees at America's prison camp at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba

UN panel tells America to end torture and close Guantanamo
By Simon Freeman and agencies

A powerful United Nations panel today made the strongest call yet on the United States to close down the Guantanamo Bay detention facility and to disclose the locations of all of its rumoured secret prisons abroad.

The committee said it was "deeply concerned" that detainees were being held at the prison camp in Cuba for protracted periods without proper legal safeguards or reliable judicial justification.

The ten members of the UN Committee Against Torture also called upon President Bush to end the use of torture and cruel treatment in interrogation of detainees, citing sexual humiliation, mock drownings and the use of dogs to induce fear.

In a troubling 11-page report published today, the panel ordered the US to reveal the location of any of the secret prisons, believed to be in Egypt, Jordan and Eastern Europe, to which suspects are allegedly transported by special rendition for interview under conditions which violate human rights conventions.

The panel has no legal power to enforce the US to abide by any of its demands but it wields considerable moral authority. For the first time in six years, the US sent a delegation of 30 officials to Geneva to defend its conduct at a hearing before the committee earlier this month.

The delegation was criticised for refusing to comment on questions about secret prisons.

The report's findings will add to growing condemnation of America's activities in the War on Terror. It also stated that if proved, many of these actions could be in breach of international law.

It ruled that there had been "reliable reports of acts of torture or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" by US military personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan. It said that some "have resulted in the death of some detainees during interrogation" and criticised vague US guidelines that "have led to serious abuse of detainees."

In a judgement which could also have implications for British efforts to deport foreign nationals suspected of terrorism-related offences, the report also demands detainees should not be returned to any state where they face a "real risk" of being tortured."

In its testimony, the US delegation told the committee that use of torture or inhumane and degrading treatment by the US military or intelligence services was outlawed, wherever they may be operating. The delegation also told the committee that 89 service personnel had been convicted in 103 courts martial as authorities attempted to root out abuse.

They included a series of prosecutions following revelations in 2004 of the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison, outside Baghdad, as well cases involving personnel in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay.

Nineteen of the convictions involved sentences of at least one year, while 28 personnel were thrown out of the US military, officials said. Nevertheless, the UN committee said it was "deeply concerned" at the "very lenient sentences" even after cases that had involved fatalities.

It added that such action did "not reflect the seriousness the state party claims in dealing with those abuses."

The final version of the report is due to be released later today.

.There was a crooked man and he walked a crooked mile,
He found a crooked sixpence upon a crooked stile.
He bought a crooked cat, which caught a crooked mouse.
And they all lived together in a little crooked house.'

Seems somehow appropriate...

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Why are people so stupid?

When our congress was trying to pass legislation on torture in our prisons, this administration was against it.

Americans are so stupid today, I doubt we can manage to survive as a nation.

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And now there is this candid appraisal of the run-up to war:

LA Times today

Hayden was also sharply critical of the activities of a controversial intelligence-analysis unit set up within the Pentagon by former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith, a leading advocate for the war in Iraq.

The team Feith assembled helped make the case for war by uncovering supposed links between Saddam Hussein's regime and Al Qaeda. Their findings, which were presented to the CIA and officials at the White House, have since been discredited.

Asked by Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) whether he was comfortable with Feith's approach to analysis, Hayden said: "No, sir, I wasn't. And I wasn't aware of a lot of the activity going on running up to the war."

Feith's team, Hayden said, had set out to prove a case by assembling "every possible ounce of evidence" and ignoring contradictory information. Using that method, Hayden continued, analysts can build a convincing case against even innocent targets.

"I got three great kids, but if you tell me, 'Go out and find all the bad things they've done, Hayden,' I could build you a pretty good dossier," Hayden said. "You'd think they were pretty bad people because that's what I was looking for and that's what I built up. That'd be very wrong, OK? That would be inaccurate. That would be misleading."

===

Joe(I have never been prouder of a USAF officer)Nation

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Joe Nation, that is quite a statement about Feith from Haydon and substantiated by a lot of documentaion. Yet Haydon has been misleading himself in other areas. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/190506tapphones.htm

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FACT: The USA invaded southern Iraq in 1991 to end Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and prevent Iraq from doing it again.

FACT: Al-Qaeda Terrorist Malignancy murdered 3,000 American civilians in America five years and four months after it obtained sanctuary in Afghanistan.

FACT: The state of Afghanistan allowed sanctuary to al-Qaeda Terrorist Malignancy from May 1996 to October 2001 (one month after 9/11), when the USA invaded Afghanistan to end their sanctuary in Afghanistan.

FACT: The state of Iraq allowed sanctuary to al-Qaeda Terrorist Malignancy from December 2001 to March 2003, when the USA invaded Iraq to end their sanctuary in Iraq.

QUESTION: If USA had not invaded Iraq, how many years after al-Qaeda Terrorist Malignancy obtained sanctuary in Iraq would al-Qaeda Terrorist Malignancy have murdered more American civilians in America?

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First: Facts.

After 9/11/2001, and before the USA invaded Afghanistan, the Bush administration demanded that the government of Afghanistan remove al-Qaeda from its country. The government of Afghanistan did not reply to our demand. The USA subsequently invaded Afghanistan.

After the USA invaded Afghanistan, the Bush administration demanded that the governments of Iraq, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria remove al Qaeda from their countries. The governments of Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria agreed to our demand. The governent of Iraq did not reply to our demand. The USA subsequently invaded Iraq.

At the time we invaded Iraq, al-Qaeda was in control of 12 villages in northeastern Iraq. USA Special Forces and Special Mission Operators, leading Kurdish Peshmerga fighters invaded these al-Qaeda camps, collecting evidence, taking prisoners, and killing all those who resisted, except, unfortunately, those who escaped.

Also at the time we invaded Iraq, several hundred foreign fighters from Egypt, Sudan, Syria, and Libya were being trained in a camp south of Baghdad. After the USA invaded Iraq, USA marines killed them all. Fortunately, none escaped.

Subsequent to the USA invasion of Iraq, Iran and Syria reneged on their agreement to remove al-Qaeda from their countries.

Second: What If?

But what if none of the governments of these countries had replied to our demand to remove al-Qaeda. In that case, would it have been wise not to invade any of them, because we lacked the means to invade them all? Or would it have been wiser to invade those countries in which al-Qaeda was most actively training terrorist fighters? In that regard, Afghanistan and Iraq were the best candidates for invasion until Syria and Iran reneged on their agreement to meet our demand to remove al-Qaeda.

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The number of non-combatant civilians killed by violence since 01/01/2000, as of:
12/31/2002 (1096 days) -- total = 56,049 -- approximate average monthly rate / daily rate = 1,556.9 / 51.1.

The number of non-combatant civilians killed by violence since 01/01/2003, as of:
12/31/2005 (1095 days) -- total = 31,319 -- approximate average monthly rate / daily rate = 870.0 / 28.6.

Note: Less than 8,000 of these non-combatant civilians killed by violence, since 01/01/2003 as of 12/31/2005, were killed by coalition forces.

The number of non-combatant civilians killed by violence since 01/01/2003, as of:
01/31/2006 (1126 days) -- total = 31,928 -- approximate average monthly rate / daily rate = 862.9 / 28.4;
02/28/2006 (1154 days) -- total = 32,506 -- approximate average monthly rate / daily rate = 855.4 / 28.2;
03/31/2006 (1185 days) -- total = 38,161 -- approximate average monthly rate / daily rate = 978.5 / 32.2;
04/30/2006 (1215 days) -- total = 39,024 -- approximate average monthly rate / daily rate = 975.6 / 32.1.

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Quote:

The governent of Iraq did not reply to our demand. The USA subsequently invaded Iraq.

Hmm, you don't think the fact that we had been bombing Iraq for the last ten years had anything to do with them not aceding to our demands?

Cycloptichorn

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Middle-class Iraqis fleeing Iraq in large numbers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/19/world/middleeast/19migration.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

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http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/guantanamo_detainees

6 Gitmo Inmates Hurt in Fight With Guards
AP

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - Prisoners wielding improvised weapons attacked military guards trying to save a detainee pretending to commit suicide at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the base commander said Friday. Six prisoners were injured. U.S. guards were lured Thursday evening into a dorm-like room at a minimum-security wing of the detention center by a detainee pretending to prepare to hang himself, said Navy Rear Adm. Harry B. Harris Jr.

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

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