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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Apr, 2006 06:19 pm
Brought to you by the American Committees on Foreign Relations ACFR NewsGroup No. 691, Wednesday, April 5, 2006.
Quote:
'The Wrong Time to Lose Our Nerve' - A response to Messrs. Will, Buckley and Fukuyama.
By PETER WEHNER
April 4, 2006; Page A22 Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114411595831716136.html

A small group of current and former conservatives -- including George Will, William F. Buckley, Jr. and Francis Fukuyama -- have become harsh critics of the Iraq war. They have declared, or clearly implied, that it is a failure and the president's effort to promote liberty in the Middle East is dead -- and dead for a perfectly predictable reason: Iraq, like the Arab Middle East more broadly, lacks the democratic culture that is necessary for freedom to take root. And so for cultural reasons, this effort was flawed from the outset. Or so the argument goes.

Let me address each of these charges in turn.

The war is lost: "Our mission has failed," Mr. Buckley wrote earlier this year. "t seems very unlikely that history will judge either the intervention itself or the ideas animating it kindly," saith the man (Mr. Fukuyama) who once declared "the end of history" and in 1998 signed a letter to congressional leaders stating, "U.S. policy should have as its explicit goal removing Saddam Hussein's regime from power and establishing a peaceful and democratic Iraq in its place."

These critics of the war are demonstrating a peculiar eagerness to declare certain matters settled. We certainly face difficulties in Iraq -- but we have seen significant progress as well. In 2005, Iraq's economy continued to recover and grow. Access to clean water and sewage treatment facilities has increased. The Sunnis are now invested in the political process, which was not previously the case. The Iraqi security forces are far stronger than they were. Our counterinsurgency strategy is more effective than in the past. Cities like Tal Afar, which insurgents once controlled, are now back in the hands of free Iraqis. Al Qaeda's grip has been broken in Mosul and disrupted in Baghdad. We now see fissures between Iraqis and foreign terrorists. And in the aftermath of the mosque bombing in Samarra, we saw the political and religious leadership in Iraq call for an end to violence instead of stoking civil war -- and on the whole, the Iraqi security forces performed well. These achievements are authentic grounds for encouragement. And to ignore or dismiss all signs of progress in Iraq, to portray things in what Norman Podhoretz has called "the blackest possible light," disfigures reality.

One might hope our own democratic development -- which included the Articles of Confederation and a "fiery trial" that cost more than 600,000 American lives -- would remind critics that we must sometimes be patient with others. We are engaged in an enterprise of enormous importance: helping a traumatized Arab nation become stable, free and self-governing. Success isn't foreordained -- and neither is failure. Justice Holmes said the mode in which the inevitable comes to pass is through effort.

The freedom agenda is dead: The president's freedom agenda is now "a casualty of the war that began three years ago . . .," according to Mr. Will. The Bush Doctrine is in "shambles," Mr. Fukuyama insists. We cannot "impose" democracy on "a country that doesn't want it," he says.

Why is Mr. Fukuyama so sure people in Iraq and elsewhere don't long for democracy? Just last year, on three separate occasions, Iraqis braved bombs and bullets to turn out and vote in greater numbers (percentage-wise) than do American voters, who merely have to brave lines. Does Mr. Fukuyama believe Iraqis prefer subjugation to freedom? Does he think they, unlike he, relish life in a gulag, or the lash of the whip, or the midnight knock of the secret police? Who among us wants a jackboot forever stomping on his face? It is a mistake of a large order to argue that democracy is unwanted in Iraq simply because (a) violence exists three years after the country's liberation -- and after more than three decades of almost unimaginable cruelty and terror; and (b) Iraq is not Switzerland.

Beyond that, the critics of the Iraq war have chosen an odd time to criticize the appeal and power of democracy. After all, we are witnessing the swiftest advance of freedom in history. According to Freedom House's director of research, Arch Puddington, "The global picture . . . suggests that 2005 was one of the most successful years for freedom since Freedom House began measuring world freedom in 1972. . . . The 'Freedom in the World 2006' ratings for the Middle East represent the region's best performance in the history of the survey."

Mr. Will says it is time to "de-emphasize talk about Iraq's becoming a democracy that ignites emulative transformation in the Middle East." Saad Eddin Ibrahim, a democracy activist from Egypt, says different. Mr. Ibrahim, who originally opposed the war to liberate Iraq, said it "has unfrozen the Middle East, just as Napoleon's 1798 expedition did. Elections in Iraq force the theocrats and autocrats to put democracy on the agenda, even if only to fight against us."

Cultural determinism: The problem with Iraq, Mr. Will said in a Manhattan Institute lecture, is that it "lacks a Washington, a Madison, a [John] Marshall -- and it lacks the astonishingly rich social and cultural soil from which such people sprout." There is no "existing democratic culture" that will allow liberty to succeed, he argues. And he scoffs at the assertion by President Bush that it is "cultural condescension" to claim that some peoples, cultures or religions are destined to despotism and unsuited for self-government. The most obvious rebuttal to Mr. Will's first point is that only one nation in history had at its creation a Washington, Madison and Marshall -- yet there are 122 democracies in the world right now. So clearly founders of the quality of Washington and Madison are not the necessary condition for freedom to succeed.

A mark of serious conservatism is a regard for the concreteness of human experience. If cultures are as intractable as Mr. Will asserts, and if an existing democratic culture was as indispensable as he insists, we would not have seen democracy take root in Japan after World War II; Southern Europe in the 1970s; Latin America and East Asia in the '80s; and South Africa in the '90s. It was believed by many that these nations' and regions' traditions and cultures -- including by turns Confucianism, Catholicism, dictatorships, authoritarianism, apartheid, military juntas and oligarchies -- made them incompatible with self-government.

This is not to say that culture is unimportant. It matters a great deal. But so do incentives and creeds and the power of ideas, which can profoundly shape culture. Culture is not mechanically deterministic -- and to believe that what is will always be is a mistake of both history and philosophy.

Americans have debated matters of creed and culture before. John C. Calhoun believed slavery was a cultural given that could not be undone in the South. Lincoln knew slavery had deep roots -- but he believed that could, and must, change. He set about to do just that. Lincoln believed slavery could be overcome because he believed human beings were constituted in a particular way. In the "enlightened belief" of the Founders, he said, "nothing stamped with the Divine image and likeness was sent into the world to be trodden on, and degraded, and imbruted by its fellows." Lincoln believed as well that the self-evident truths in the Declaration were the Founders' "majestic interpretation of the economy of the Universe. This was their lofty, and wise, and noble understanding of the justice of the Creator to His creatures. Yes, gentlemen, to all His creatures, to the whole great family of man."

What has plagued the Arab Middle East is not simply, or even primarily, culture; it is antidemocratic ideologies and oppressive institutions. And the way to counteract pernicious ideologies and oppressive institutions is with better ones. Liberty, and the institutions that support liberty, are pathways to human flourishing.

* * *
Critics of the Iraq war have offered no serious strategic alternative to the president's freedom agenda, which is anchored in the belief that democracy and liberal institutions are the best antidote to the pathologies plaguing the Middle East. The region has generated deep resentments and lethal anti-Americanism. In the past, Western nations tolerated oppression for the sake of "stability." But this policy created its own unintended consequences, including attacks that hit America with deadly fury on Sept. 11. President Bush struck back, both militarily and by promoting liberty.

In Iraq, we are witnessing advancements and some heartening achievements. We are also experiencing the hardships and setbacks that accompany epic transitions. There will be others. But there is no other way to fundamentally change the Arab Middle East. Democracy and the accompanying rise of political and civic institutions are the only route to a better world -- and because the work is difficult doesn't mean it can be ignored. The cycle has to be broken. The process of democratic reform has begun, and now would be precisely the wrong time to lose our nerve and turn our back on the freedom agenda. It would be a geopolitical disaster and a moral calamity -- and President Bush, like President Reagan before him, will persist in his efforts to shape a more hopeful world.

Mr. Wehner is deputy assistant to the president and director of the White House's Office of Strategic Initiatives.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 03:57 am
The former conservative supporters of the Iraqi war are not losing their nerve, but simply facing the reality of the Iraqi experiment gone bad.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 06:57 am
Well, well. Libby is fingering Bush, through Cheney. Are we surprised?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 07:18 am
Blasts at Baghdad Shiite Mosques Kill Scores

Quote:
BAGHDAD, April 7 -- Explosions tore through three Shiite Muslim mosques in Baghdad on Friday as hundreds of worshipers were at prayer.

Initial reports from police put the death toll at 50 or more.

A Post reporter at the scene said what sounded like three mortars hit the largest of the mosques, Burratha. Police reported seven dead and 18 wounded in that explosion.

Police fired wildly into the air as pickup trucks hauled away the dead and wounded.

Across Baghdad, suicide attackers blew themselves up among worshipers at two other Shiite mosques, said Baha Araji, a top aide to Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in Baghdad.

The bombers hit two heavily Shiite neighborhoods, Shoula in the north and New Baghdad in the east, Araji said.

Araji said at least 30 people were killed at the two mosques. Police still were removing bodies, he said.

Baghdad's residents had been braced for attacks Friday amid rumors that suicide attackers were roaming the city.

Sectarian violence, including attacks on mosques, have surged since a Feb. 22 bombing that blew the gold-plated dome off a revered Shiite shrine in the city of Samarra.



I am wondering how we are keeping a civil war from breaking out if we leave when it seems there is already a civil war in all but name. I mean how are we helping Iraqis by being there?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 11:07 am
We have no role to play, it would appear, in the present sectarian violence, unless one were to say that it would have happened a lot sooner if we were not there. Where is the comfort or good in that?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 11:09 am
If we were not there, if we had not invaded, the sectarian violence would not have occurred, although certainly it would have remained lethally dangerous to be Shi'ite in an Iraq dominated by a Sunni minority.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 12:17 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060407/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_27;_ylt=AqSnf.qI_89shCqMcuY8c8pqP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl


"White House Declines to Counter Leak Claim
By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer




WASHINGTON - The White House on Friday declined to challenge assertions that President Bush authorized the leaks of intelligence information to counter administration critics on Iraq.

But Bush's spokesman, Scott McClellan, appeared to draw a distinction about Bush's oft-stated opposition to leaks. "The president would never authorize disclosure of information that could compromise our nation's security," Bush's spokesman said.

Court papers filed by the prosecutor in the CIA leak case against I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby said Bush authorized Libby to disclose information from a classified prewar intelligence report. The court papers say Libby's boss, advised him that the president had authorized Libby to leak the information to the press in striking back at administration critic Joseph Wilson."
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 12:44 pm
Well that's interesting, because anyone who exposes a CIA agent is breaking the law.

So GWB has broken the law, if this report is correct, or by colluding is an accessory.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 01:43 pm
McTag wrote:
Well that's interesting, because anyone who exposes a CIA agent is breaking the law.


Wrong, McT. Certain CIA agents, yes ... but not all.

Quote:
So GWB has broken the law, if this report is correct, or by colluding is an accessory.


Which report? That Bush authorized Libby to talk with Judith Miller about information in the NIE? That has nothing to do with divulging Plame's name or status.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 02:06 pm
revel wrote:
The former conservative supporters of the Iraqi war are not losing their nerve, but simply facing the reality of the Iraqi experiment gone bad.

I too think "the conservative supporters of the Iraqi war are not losing their nerve." I think they are losing their good sense. Revel, you and I have previously agreed that the Bush administration made numerous serious mistakes after Saddam was removed. But I think it obvious that all of those serious mistakes are rectifiable, if the Bush administration starts doing what is required to rectify those mistakes.

To begin with, I recommend these two steps.

#1 Declare a new terrorist malignancy policy: The USA military will exterminate all terrorist malignancy and take no prisoners.

#2 Declare a new Iraq government re-organization policy: The current Iraq government must form its new Iraq government by June 30, 2006, in order to retain USA military protection after that date.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 02:30 pm
Setanta wrote:
If we were not there, if we had not invaded, the sectarian violence would not have occurred, although certainly it would have remained lethally dangerous to be Shi'ite in an Iraq dominated by a Sunni minority.

www.m-w.com
Merriam-Webster wrote:
Main Entry: 1sec·tar·i·an
Pronunciation: sek-'ter-E-&n
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or characteristic of a sect or sectarian
2 : limited in character or scope : PAROCHIAL
- sec·tar·i·an·ism /-E-&-"ni-z&m/ noun


About 72,000 Iraqi civilians were murdered by Saddam Hussein's sectarian regime in the last 39 months of its existence.

About 38,000 Iraqi civilians were murdered by the sectarian Terrorist Malignancy in the past 39 months (1/1/2006 to 3/31/2006).

I estimate that double that number of Iraqi civilians would have been murdered 1/1/2006 to 3/31/2006, if Saddam's sect had remained in power and the USA had not invaded Iraq.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 03:05 pm
McTag wrote:
Well that's interesting, because anyone who exposes a CIA agent is breaking the law.

So GWB has broken the law, if this report is correct, or by colluding is an accessory.

Joe Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, had not been a covert agent of the CIA for more than 5 years when Libby disclosed that she was an employee of the CIA. Because it is only unlawful to disclose that someone was a covert agent of the CIA within five years after they ceased being a covert agent of the CIA, neither Libby or GWB broke the law. That is why Libby was not indicted for disclosure that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA. Libby was instead indicted for an alleged perjury.

Instead, the LIEbral opinion-news media should be indicted for failure to adequately disclose the above facts. ... Oh, sorry, failure by the LIEbral opinion-news media to adequately disclose facts is not an indictable offense.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 03:22 pm
CORRECTIONS indicated as x
ican711nm wrote:
Setanta wrote:
If we were not there, if we had not invaded, the sectarian violence would not have occurred, although certainly it would have remained lethally dangerous to be Shi'ite in an Iraq dominated by a Sunni minority.

www.m-w.com
Merriam-Webster wrote:
Main Entry: 1sec·tar·i·an
Pronunciation: sek-'ter-E-&n
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or characteristic of a sect or sectarian
2 : limited in character or scope : PAROCHIAL
- sec·tar·i·an·ism /-E-&-"ni-z&m/ noun


About 72,000 Iraqi civilians were murdered by Saddam Hussein's sectarian regime in the last 39 months of its existence.

About 32,000 Iraqi civilians were murdered by the sectarian Terrorist Malignancy in the past 39 months (1/1/2003 to 3/31/2006).

I estimate that double that number of Iraqi civilians would have been murdered 1/1/2003 to 3/31/2006, if Saddam's sect had remained in power and the USA had not invaded Iraq.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Apr, 2006 09:47 pm
Harry Taylor

You need QuickTime
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 05:56 am
#1 is an atrocious policy for a democracy.

#2 is ludicrous - what protection are we giving anyone there now?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 07:36 am
There is a thread to discuss the CIA leak thing, however, the status of Valerie Plame at the time of the leak was marked (S) in a CIA memo. The CIA uses that sign to mark CIA employees whose indenties are covert.

Quote:
The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/20/AR2005072002517.html

As for why Fitzarold settled on issues of perjury, I guess it's like the Capone case, they got him on tax evasion because it was easier.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 08:01 am
I am thinking that the modus operandi of the White House, in particular, and the Bush administration, in general; has been that of one large, coordinated PR/advertising company.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 08:04 am
How is this as an example of something or other?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060407/ap_on_re_us/gold_capped_teeth


"Feds Try to Seize Gold From Suspects' Teeth



TACOMA, Wash. - Talk about taking a bite out of crime.

Government lawyers tried to confiscate the gold tooth caps known as "grills" from the mouths of two men facing drug charges, saying the dental work qualified as seizable assets. They had them in a vehicle headed to a dental clinic by the time defense attorneys persuaded a judge to halt the procedure.

"I've been doing this for over 30 years and I have never heard of anything like this," said Richard J. Troberman, a past president of the Washington Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. "It sounds like Nazi Germany when they were removing the gold teeth from the bodies, but at least then they waited until they were dead."

Prosecutors had a warrant to seize the gold dental work, according to documents and lawyers involved in the case. But they eventually abandoned the effort, saying they mistakenly thought the grills were removable."
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 08:41 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/07/AR2006040701719.html?referrer=email&referrer=email

"Threat of Shiite Militias Now Seen As Iraq's Most Critical Challenge

By Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, April 8, 2006; A01



BAGHDAD, April 7 -- Shiite Muslim militias pose the greatest threat to security in many parts of Iraq, having killed more people in recent months than the Sunni Arab-led insurgency, and will likely present the most daunting and critical challenge for Iraq's new government, U.S. military and diplomatic officials say.

Assassinations, many carried out by Shiite gunmen against Sunni Arabs in Baghdad and elsewhere, accounted for more than four times as many deaths in March as bombings and other mass-casualty attacks, according to military data. And most officials agree that only a small percentage of shooting deaths are ever reported......

....While acknowledging the instability caused by Shiite armed groups, the largest of which are linked to the country's dominant political parties and operate among Iraq's police and army, U.S. and Iraqi officials here have yet to implement, or even publicly articulate, a strategy for addressing the problem....

....Practically every Shiite political party in Iraq maintains a force of men with guns -- some virtual armies of several thousand or more, others what Peterson described as little more than a "neighborhood watch on steroids."

Iraq's other major factions maintain armed forces as well. Insurgent groups such as al-Qaeda in Iraq and Ansar al-Sunna are composed predominantly of Sunni Arabs and conduct frequent attacks on U.S. and Iraqi soldiers and Shiite civilians. The pesh merga , a large militia maintained by ethnic Kurds, is formally under the command of the Iraqi army, operates mainly in the Kurdish north and poses no major security threat, U.S. officials say."
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Apr, 2006 01:17 pm
London paper will identify who forged Niger documents

RAW STORY
Published: Saturday April 8, 2006


Print This | Email This


The LONDON SUNDAY TIMES' Michael Smith -- who first broke the infamous Downing Street Memo -- will identify who is believed to have forged the documents that formed the basis for President George W. Bush's infamous 16 words this evening, RAW STORY has learned. Smith will explain the chain of events in painstaking detail.

According to Nato sources who spoke under condition of anonymity with the SUNDAY TIMES, an Italian investigation has fingered two employees of an embassy in Italy with forging the documents.

Speculation has been ripe over who forged the documents -- and the SUNDAY TIMES piece is unlikely to stem furor and speculation in the United States over the documents that helped bring the United States to war with Iraq.

DEVELOPING...
0 Replies
 
 

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