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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 06:21 pm
All of the above.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 06:37 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
That's right, ican. Look at the "evidence."

What evidence? What is it evidence of?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 06:39 pm
Back to square one. Wink
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Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 09:37 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Right-wingnuts like to project their own ideas into other people's opinions. Makes them feel "superior" or something. Typical; we're all commies, Bush-haters, unpatriotic, lover of our enemy, hate America, etc., etc., etc....


And in doing so.....

When a right-wingnut attempts to describe a Liberal/Democrat he always...... ALWAYS describes himself!
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 10:17 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Whereas your primary goal is...? To act like a condescending jerk as much as possible, while avoiding the substance of your opponent's argument?

As much as I disagree with Ican at least he has the decency to actually respond to his opponent's points, rather then just denigrate their entire argument, provide no evidence why it is incorrect, and smugly restate the validity of one's own argument. You do this continually.

Cycloptichorn


What you don't like about my posts, Cyclops, is that I am often highly critical of your posts. I may be condescending (actually, no "may" about it, I often AM condescending), but I do not personally denigrate you, or call your thinking "witless," "clueless," or "brainless," nor do I call your posts "horsey-poop," or call you "stupid" or your brain "calcified."

I call you a "peacenik," and a "leftist," and believe you have a "Euroweenie" mentality, but those are all just terms of endearment.


This is incorrect, and also, I wasn't just referring to my posts, but other's posts. What I 'don't like' about your posts is your refusal in many cases to actaully discuss the merits of your opponents position, or to even discuss the opponent's position at all.


No, I discuss the merits of my "opponents' position," but I do it in a way you find disagreeable. I ask questions you/they don't want to answer. I occasionally hone in on a particular point you/they tried to make, to point out it's weakness, and you/they don't want to focus on that point. You/they want the debate to go a particular way, and I take it a different way. That often makes you/them upset, but I don't refuse to discuss the relative merit of my opposition. If I denigrate or insult, it's relatively benign, and virtually always a response to denigration or insults coming my way.

Quote:
Instead, you denigrate the entire thing and circle back to your assumption; you ignore what was written and instead substitute it with your 'interpretations,' which are always more helpful to your argument then they are connected to reality; or you pick a single line of the argument, often one not centrally connected to the issue, and choose to contend that point. When the opponent responds negatively to your refusal to debate the meat of the argument, you turn to denigration and insult.


See my above response.

Quote:
The sad part about all this is that you are, and always have been, one of my favorite posters here at A2K. The fact that we disagree politically has not stopped me from enjoying our and other arguments that you have advanced. Lately, though, you seem to have fallen off somewhat. I think it is due to the fact that you, and other Republicans, aren't really very good at playing defense at all; when issues arise requiring you to defend the Republican party (and the corruption inherent to it these days), you unconciously shift into an attack mode when you realize that you are defending a weak position.


My observation is the Democrats/liberals on this site are increasingly bitter/hostile, and are more frequently using personal attacks as their main weapon of choice. The relatively recent constant presence of Magginkat and Anon-Voter have certainly contributed to this, and cicerone imposter has been notably cranky of late. I've recently found myself standing in the middle of the ring, trading shots with some of these folks, when I probably ought to just step out of the way and watch them flail about. But I have always, from day one, told you what I thought about your political views. I respect you because you are generally consistent, and seem to be thoughtful and reasonable, though misguided. I don't recall attacking you on a personal level. (Unless you took great insult at my calling you a "Euroweenie.")
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 12:00 am
Ticomaya wrote:
(Unless you took great insult at my calling you a "Euroweenie.")


Yes.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 03:12 am
We are absolutely not supposed to insult each other on these threads.

But with Ican, excepions can be made.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 06:07 am
If posters got kicked out of the threads for insulting another poster, there would be few people left. Some people just hide their insults under sophisticated language, but they are insulting just the same.
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Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 09:52 am
But it's ok as long as the rabid right wingers do it. Gosh, they're Christians... remember? They've been saved! Praise the Lord!

If one is to believe these jokers the Bible tells them to commit murder and mayhem upon anyone who does not buy Chicken george's version of Christianity.

To those who think the pRes is a christian I have this to say...........

If george bu$h is a Christian, then I am the Virgin Mother!
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 10:00 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
(Unless you took great insult at my calling you a "Euroweenie.")


Yes.


Did I call you a "Euroweenie," Walter? Confused
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 10:01 am
revel wrote:
If posters got kicked out of the threads for insulting another poster, there would be few people left. Some people just hide their insults under sophisticated language, but they are insulting just the same.


Damn those sophisticated hidden insults.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 10:07 am
Watch who you're calling sophisticated, buddy. Smile
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 11:49 am
... Laughing
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 11:56 am
This message is available online at http://www.WantToKnow.info/060322soldierasksforgiveness<http://t.ymlp.com/jweaiayakaqhafaebes/click.php>

Regaining My Humanity

I was deployed to Iraq in April 2003 and returned home for a two-week leave in October. Going home gave me the opportunity to put my thoughts in order and to listen to what my conscience had to say. People would ask me about my war experiences and answering them took me back to all the horrors - the firefights, the ambushes, the time I saw...an innocent man decapitated by our machine-gun fire. The time I saw a soldier broken down inside because he killed a child, or an old man on his knees, crying with his arms raised to the sky, perhaps asking God why we had taken the lifeless body of his son.

I thought of the suffering of a people whose country was in ruins and who were further humiliated by the raids, patrols and curfews of an occupying army.

And I realized that none of the reasons we were told about why we were in Iraq turned out to be true. There were no weapons of mass destruction. There was no link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. We weren't helping the Iraqi people and the Iraqi people didn't want us there. We weren't preventing terrorism or making Americans safer.

Coming home gave me the clarity to see the line between military duty and moral obligation. I realized that I was part of a war that I believed was immoral and criminal. I realized that acting upon my principles became incompatible with my role in the military, and I decided that I could not return to Iraq.

By putting my weapon down, I chose to reassert myself as a human being. I have not deserted the military nor been disloyal to the men and women of the military. I have not been disloyal to a country. I have only been loyal to my principles.

When I turned myself in, with all my fears and doubts, I did it not only for myself. I did it for the people of Iraq, even for those who fired upon me - they were just on the other side of a battleground where war itself was the only enemy. I did it for the Iraqi children, who are victims of mines and depleted uranium. I did it for the thousands of unknown civilians killed in war. My time in prison is a small price compared to the price Iraqis and Americans have paid with their lives. Mine is a small price compared to the price humanity has paid for war.

Many have called me a coward, others have called me a hero. I believe I can be found somewhere in the middle. To those who have called me a hero, I say that I don't believe in heroes, but I believe that ordinary people can do extraordinary things.

To those who have called me a coward I say that they are wrong, and that without knowing it, they are also right. They are wrong when they think that I left the war for fear of being killed. I admit that fear was there, but there was also the fear of killing innocent people, the fear of putting myself in a position where to survive means to kill. There was the fear of losing my soul in the process of saving my body, the fear of losing myself to my daughter, to the people who love me, to the man I used to be, the man I wanted to be. I was afraid of waking up one morning to realize my humanity had abandoned me.

I say without any pride that I did my job as a soldier. I commanded an infantry squad in combat and we never failed to accomplish our mission. But those who called me a coward, without knowing it, are also right. I was a coward not for leaving the war, but for having been a part of it in the first place. Refusing and resisting this war was my moral duty, a moral duty that called me to take a principled action. I failed to fulfill my moral duty as a human being and instead I chose to fulfill my duty as a soldier. All because I was afraid. I was terrified; I did not want to stand up to the government and the army - I was afraid of punishment and humiliation. I went to war because at the moment I was a coward, and for that I apologize to my soldiers for not being the type of leader I should have been.

I also apologize to the Iraqi people. To them I say I am sorry for the curfews, for the raids, for the killings. May they find it in their hearts to forgive me.

One of the reasons I did not refuse the war from the beginning was that I was afraid of losing my freedom. Today, as I sit behind bars I realize that there are many types of freedom, and that in spite of my confinement I remain free in many important ways. What good is freedom if we are afraid to follow our conscience? What good is freedom if we are not able to live with our own actions? I am confined to a prison but I feel, today more than ever, connected to all humanity. Behind these bars I sit a free man because I listened to a higher power, the voice of my conscience.

In March of 2004, 28-year-old Sgt. Camilo Mejia turned himself in to the U.S. military and filed an application for conscientious objector status. On May 21st, he was sentenced to one year in prison for refusing to return to fight inIraq. He was released from prison on Feb. 15, 2005. The above letter was written while he was in prison. For excellent, highly revealing information on the deeper reasons behind this and other wars, please visit: http://www.WantToKnow.info/warinformation<http://t.ymlp.com/jwwadayalaqhaoaebes/click.php>
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 04:48 pm
www.m-w.com
Quote:
Main Entry: ma·lig·nan·cy
Pronunciation: -n&n(t)-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
1 : the quality or state of being malignant
2 a : exhibition (as by a tumor) of malignant qualities : VIRULENCE b : a malignant tumor

Main Entry: ma·lig·nant
Pronunciation: m&-'lig-n&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin malignant-, malignans, present participle of malignari
1 a obsolete : MALCONTENT, DISAFFECTED b : evil in nature, influence, or effect : INJURIOUS c : passionately and relentlessly malevolent : aggressively malicious
2 : tending to produce death or deterioration <malignant malaria>; especially : tending to infiltrate, metastasize, and terminate fatally <malignant tumor>
- ma·lig·nant·ly adverb

The war in Iraq is a war on a malignancy.

The malignancy forces in Iraq are mass murdering civilians in Iraq. Evil!

The anti-malignancy forces in Iraq are mass murdering malignancy forces in Iraq. Good!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 04:50 pm
The Iraq war is a 'civl war.' Many countries including the US have been involved in a civil war.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 05:00 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
The Iraq war is a 'civl war.' Many countries including the US have been involved in a civil war.

ican711nm wrote:
The war in Iraq is a war on a malignancy.

The malignancy forces in Iraq are mass murdering civilians in Iraq. Evil!

The anti-malignancy forces in Iraq are mass murdering malignancy forces in Iraq. Good!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 05:18 pm
ican, Define "civil war."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 05:19 pm
Also define "war."
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 05:29 pm
They villify America for having contained, stabilized and/or supported tyrants.

They villify Bush for failing to prevent 9/11.

They villify Bush for preempting another 9/11.

They villify Bush for removing tyrants.

They villify Bush for surveilling for suspects of future 9/11s.

Who are they?
0 Replies
 
 

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