THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

cicerone imposter wrote:

We've heard Bush say we will leave when the Iraqis ask us to leave. Guess what?


The Bush administration has ignored repeated requests to set a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops.

June 2005: Eighty two Iraqi lawmakers from across the political spectrum have pressed for the withdrawal of the US-led occupation troops from their country. The Shiite, Kurdish, Sunni Arab, Christian and communist legislators made the call in a letter sent by Falah Hassan Shanshal of the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA), the largest bloc in parliament, to speaker Hajem Al-Hassani, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP). "We have asked in several sessions for occupation troops to withdraw. Our request was ignored," read the latter, made public on Sunday, June 19.

You have a link for that article, ci?

http://defensenews.com/story.php?F=925971
Posted 06/20/05
10:22Print this story Iraqi Lawmakers Call for Foreign Troops to Withdraw

By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, BAGHDAD


Iraqi lawmakers from across the political spectrum called for the withdrawal of foreign forces from their country in a letter released to the media June 19.

The move comes as U.S. President George W. Bush is under increasing domestic pressure to set a timetable for the pullout of American forces in the face of an increasing death toll at the hands of insurgents.

Eighty-two Shiite, Kurdish, Sunni Arab, Christian and communist deputies made the call in a letter sent by Falah Hassan Shanshal of the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA), the largest group in parliament, to speaker Hajem al-Hassani.

Some of those who signed urged that a detailed timetable be established for the withdrawal.

There are currently about 160,000 foreign troops in Iraq, including a 138,000-strong U.S. force, which has borne the brunt of attacks against coalition forces.

In the letter, Shanshal said the 275-member parliament was the Iraqi people's legitimate representative and guardian of their interests.

"We have asked in several sessions for occupation troops to withdraw," the letter said. "Our request was ignored."

"It is dangerous that the Iraqi government has asked the U.N. Security Council to prolong the stay of occupation forces without consulting representatives of the people who have the mandate for such a decision.

"Therefore we must reject the occupation's legitimacy and renew our demand for these forces to withdraw," the letter added.

The U.N. Security Council agreed on May 31 to extend the mandate of multinational forces in Iraq "until the completion of the political process" following a request from the Iraqi government.

"Iraqi security forces have managed to break the back of terrorist groups and maintain security in the streets of Iraq, and have gained the trust of Iraqi citizens to arrive at their final goal, total sovereignty for Iraq."

However, there are members of the Iraqi government that wants US troops out of Iraq. They are the government - for whatever that's worth to all outsiders.

I'm not deciding who the Iraqi government is! The Iraqi government can speak for themselves, and 82 of them signed a petition that wants our troops out.

Eighty-two Shiite, Kurdish, Sunni Arab, Christian and communist deputies made the call in a letter sent by Falah Hassan Shanshal of the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA), the largest group in parliament, to speaker Hajem al-Hassani.

...

In the letter, Shanshal said the 275-member parliament was the Iraqi people's legitimate representative and guardian of their interests.

Report finds Iraqi government precarious

By PAULINE JELINEK and KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 9 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - The Iraqi government will become more precarious over the next six to 12 months and its security forces have not improved enough to operate without outside help, U.S. spy agencies conclude in a new assessment of the country's political and military fortunes.

Despite some uneven improvements, the analysts concluded that the level of overall violence is high, Iraq's sectarian groups remain unreconciled, and al-Qaida in Iraq is still able to conduct highly visible attacks.

cicerone imposter wrote:

Report finds Iraqi government precarious

By PAULINE JELINEK and KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 9 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - The Iraqi government will become more precarious over the next six to 12 months and its security forces have not improved enough to operate without outside help, U.S. spy agencies conclude in a new assessment of the country's political and military fortunes.

Despite some uneven improvements, the analysts concluded that the level of overall violence is high, Iraq's sectarian groups remain unreconciled, and al-Qaida in Iraq is still able to conduct highly visible attacks.

That is the opinion of PAULINE JELINEK and KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writers about what "U.S. spy agencies conclude in a new assessment of the country's political and military fortunes."

We'll learn more of the truth in less than a month.

Somebody has finally acknowledged that extended tours of duty [are] not healthy for our troops.
...

cicerone imposter wrote:

Somebody has finally acknowledged that extended tours of duty [are] not healthy for our troops.
...

That acknowledgment is the most recent of a long series of such acknowledgments.

You need to acknowledge , like so many others have already, that we must not pull out of Iraq until we succeed in Iraq.

ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Report finds Iraqi government precarious

By PAULINE JELINEK and KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 9 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - The Iraqi government will become more precarious over the next six to 12 months and its security forces have not improved enough to operate without outside help, U.S. spy agencies conclude in a new assessment of the country's political and military fortunes.

Despite some uneven improvements, the analysts concluded that the level of overall violence is high, Iraq's sectarian groups remain unreconciled, and al-Qaida in Iraq is still able to conduct highly visible attacks.

That is the opinion of PAULINE JELINEK and KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writers about what "U.S. spy agencies conclude in a new assessment of the country's political and military fortunes."

We'll learn more of the truth in less than a month.

No, we won't. The NIE that was released today says exactly what the reporters wrote here.

What is your link?

In a month, the Bush WH will put out a report saying exactly the same things they have been saying all along. Petraeus will have absolutely nothing to do with this report.

Petraeus will have a great deal to say about what is in the report Bush submits to Congress in September, just like Petraeus had a lgreat deal to say about what was in Bush's July report. The Congress specifically asked Bush to provide both the July and September reports.

Cycloptichorn

ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Somebody has finally acknowledged that extended tours of duty [are] not healthy for our troops.
...

That acknowledgment is the most recent of a long series of such acknowledgments.

You need to acknowledge , like so many others have already, that we must not pull out of Iraq until we succeed in Iraq.

Your 'must' is not a 'must' at all.

Cycloptichorn

old europe wrote:

ican, how would you define "success in Iraq?"

ican711nm wrote:

(1)The mass murder of Iraqi non-murderers is reduced to less than 1,000 per month;

(2) the Iraq Government continues for one year after that to reduce the mass murder of Iraqi non-murderers; and

(3) al-Qaeda continues for one year after that to be denied sanctuary anywhere in Iraq by the Iraq government.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Report finds Iraqi government precarious

By PAULINE JELINEK and KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 9 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - The Iraqi government will become more precarious over the next six to 12 months and its security forces have not improved enough to operate without outside help, U.S. spy agencies conclude in a new assessment of the country's political and military fortunes.

Despite some uneven improvements, the analysts concluded that the level of overall violence is high, Iraq's sectarian groups remain unreconciled, and al-Qaida in Iraq is still able to conduct highly visible attacks.

That is the opinion of PAULINE JELINEK and KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writers about what "U.S. spy agencies conclude in a new assessment of the country's political and military fortunes."

We'll learn more of the truth in less than a month.

No, we won't. The NIE that was released today says exactly what the reporters wrote here.

What is your link?

In a month, the Bush WH will put out a report saying exactly the same things they have been saying all along. Petraeus will have absolutely nothing to do with this report.

Petraeus will have a great deal to say about what is in the report Bush submits to Congress in September, just like Petraeus had a lgreat deal to say about what was in Bush's July report. The Congress specifically asked Bush to provide both the July and September reports.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Somebody has finally acknowledged that extended tours of duty [are] not healthy for our troops.
...

That acknowledgment is the most recent of a long series of such acknowledgments.

You need to acknowledge , like so many others have already, that we must not pull out of Iraq until we succeed in Iraq.

Your 'must' is not a 'must' at all.

Cycloptichorn

Sure it is!

I'll ask you the same questions I asked cice, but so far cice refused to answer.

A = the consequences of our leaving without achieving success in Iraq.

B = the consequences of our staying until achieving success in Iraq.

Which consequences, A or B, do you think will result in the fewest mass murders of Iraqi non-murderers over the next ten years, and why do you think so?

Which consequences, A or B, do you think will result in the fewest mass murders of American non-murderers over the next ten years, and why do you think so?

Quote:

old europe wrote:

ican, how would you define "success in Iraq?"

ican711nm wrote:

(1)The mass murder of Iraqi non-murderers is reduced to less than 1,000 per month;

(2) the Iraq Government continues for one year after that to reduce the mass murder of Iraqi non-murderers; and

(3) al-Qaeda continues for one year after that to be denied sanctuary anywhere in Iraq by the Iraq government.