cicerone imposter wrote:xingu, I remember what Tenet told the big four about no WMDs in Iraq, but when Bush pressed Tenet, he said something like "it's a slam dunk."
That gave Bush the go-ahead with his war plans.
Is Tenet changing his story under pressure? It would be nice to get Tenet under oath and find out what he did say to them.
Perhaps it went something like this;
Cheney: Are you 100% certain there are no WMD's?
Tenet: Well, no I can't be 100% certain.
Cheney: Is there a 1% chance there are WMD's in Iraq.
Tenet: Yes there could be a 1% chance.
Cheney: Good, then we have a legitimate reason to attack them.
The Cheney 1% rule.
Quote:In his heralded new book, "The One Percent Doctrine," Ron Suskind writes that Vice President Dick Cheney forcefully stated that the war on terror empowered the Bush administration to act without the need for evidence or extensive analysis.
Suskind describes the Cheney doctrine as follows: "Even if there's just a 1 percent chance of the unimaginable coming due, act as if it is a certainty. It's not about 'our analysis,' as Cheney said. It's about 'our response.'
Justified or not, fact-based or not, 'our response' is what matters. As to 'evidence,' the bar was set so low that the word itself almost didn't apply."
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=2120605&page=1
xingu wrote:
...
You know something ican, you would have made a good guard in a Nazi concentration camp.
You know something xingu, you
make a very obedient Neo-nazis terrorist propagandist. You obediently chose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers.
Using non-murderers as their shields, murderers in Iraq murder more than 100 non-murderers each day. However, you strive to focus everyone's attention away from that, and instead strive to focus everyone's attention on the occassional killings of non-murderers by those risking their lives trying to prevent murderers from murdering.
Quote:Thursday, September 20, 2001, President Bush addressed the nation before a joint session of Congress:
www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm
Tonight we are a country awakened to danger. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them.
emphasis added
Congress wrote:
www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf
Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution
Oct. 16, 2002 (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
...
Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on
September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;
Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
...
The President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,
or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
In Congress's Joint Resolution
Oct. 16, 2002, 23 reasons were given for invading Iraq. Ten of them, including WMD reasons, subsequently proved false. Thirteen of them, including the two whereases quoted above, were subsequently proven true.
Iraq's embattled religious minorities
TODAY'S EDITORIAL
December 22, 2006
Beneath the violent Sunni-on-Shi'ite, Shi'ite-on-Sunni headlines, Iraq's sectarian violence has devastated the country's 2,000-year-old Christian community and its religious minorities generally. A tragedy of historic proportions is unfolding.
It is estimated that half of all non-Muslim religious minorities still living in Iraq are internally displaced, in addition to the more than 700,000 who have already fled the country since the war began in March 2003. These minorities comprise three or four percent of the total population of Iraq, but they are around 40 percent of Iraqi refugees, who are thought to number 1.8 million in total. Iraq's religious minorities are Chaldean, Eastern-rite Catholic, Orthodox, Assyrian, Syriac, Mandean, Yizidi, Bahai, Kaka'i and a small number of Jews, among others. Some of these groups are specific to Iraq; all trace roots of hundreds or thousands of years there. The diverse Iraqi religious heritage which they helped create is now in serious decline and may well be irreparable.
As detailed in today's Editorial section by Felice D. Gaer and Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, a U.S. government agency which functions as religious-freedom watchdog, there are potentially useful policy options which haven't been tried yet. But first the relevant players must awake to the problem.
The State Department does not consider Iraq a "country of particular concern" for religious liberty. It should. The U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) "has not even acted to assess [Chaldo-Assyrian] claims of religious persecution," Nina Shea, one of Washington's most tireless defenders of religious freedom, told a House International Relations subcommittee yesterday. The Iraqi government is much worse. At least two top leaders including the speaker of the Iraqi Parliament, Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, have been quoted urging insurgents to kidnap and kill Christian women instead of Muslims. This has to end -- as does the reported marginalization of religious minorities who have fled to the Kurdish north.
Leading the untried policies is direct access to the U.S. Refugee Program for Iraq's religious minorities, which is not yet available. A close second is ending the foot-dragging by the UNHCR on Iraqi refugees. The agency "has not conducted refugee status determinations for Iraqis," the authors write opposite here. "This means that Iraqis fleeing persecution in their home country are being denied international protections to which they are entitled as legitimate refugees." Also worth exploring is how the United States can prevent Kurdish militias and government authorities from denying religious minorities who have fled north a share of U.S. aid, including water and electrical projects, schools and medical facilities. This is intolerable and must stop.
The stories emerging from these communities are ugly. "Since July 2006 alone, seven clergymen have been kidnapped and two of them, both from Mosul, murdered," Mrs. Shea reported yesterday.
The conceptual approach Mrs. Shea favors is to welcome Iraq's religious minorities to the United States much as Soviet Jews in the Cold War were granted special refugee status. This makes a great degree of sense. An increasingly large number of these minorities cannot live in Iraq anymore. They are targeted as infidels and killed in cold blood. The United States is capable of welcoming them and is morally obligated to do so.
Additional casualties of Bush's insanity
[
ican711nm wrote:xingu wrote:
...
You know something ican, you would have made a good guard in a Nazi concentration camp.
You know something xingu, you
make a very obedient Neo-nazis terrorist propagandist. You obediently chose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers.
Using non-murderers as their shields, murderers in Iraq murder more than 100 non-murderers each day. However, you strive to focus everyone's attention away from that, and instead strive to focus everyone's attention on the occassional killings of non-murderers by those risking their lives trying to prevent murderers from murdering.
Oh really?
Show me evidence that all those other than the children were guilty. Show me the evidence that they used the children as shields.
I suggest you read the article in the Post that I supplied.
It was cold-blooded murder, the type of murder you support.
Quote:The Marines shot them at close range and hurled grenades into the kitchen and bathroom, survivors and neighbors said later. Khafif's pleas could be heard across the neighborhood. Four of the girls died screaming.
Only 13-year-old Safa Younis lived -- saved, she said, by her mother's blood spilling onto her, making her look dead when she fell, limp, in a faint.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html
Quote:"Marines overreacted . . . and killed innocent civilians in cold blood," said one of those briefed, Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), a former Marine who maintains close ties with senior Marine officers despite his opposition to the war.
this report from the BBC seems to fall into the category of
"good news / bad news" .
the good news is that 1,000 (!) british soldiers arrested 7 (?) iraqi policemen suspected of killing and extortion .
the bad news is , that those "police" death-squads seem to be roaming all over iraq .
you be the judge .
hbg
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the BBC reports :
Iraqi police arrested in UK raid
British soldiers have carried out arrests of several Iraqi policemen
UK troops have arrested seven Iraqi police officers suspected of corruption and leading a death squad in Basra.
More than 1,000 troops are reported to have been involved in the dawn raid, which was backed up by tanks.
The operation was the first stage in moves to disrupt and ultimately disband the Serious Crime Unit in the city.
British forces in Basra say some commanders were using the unit as a cover for death squads and criminal activities which they controlled.
A military spokesman has told the BBC that rather than solving serious crimes, the unit was carrying them out.
source :
...GOOD NEWS / BAD NEWS ?...
George Tenet's 'Slam-Dunk' Into the History Books
By Mark Leibovich
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, June 4, 2004; Page C01
George Tenet got slam-dunked yesterday.
Officially, the CIA director resigned for personal reasons. CIA officials say he wasn't pushed. President Bush says he's sorry to see Tenet go. "He's done a superb job on behalf of the American people," Bush said. Tenet's seven-year tenure was eventful and embattled.
Yet his legacy may distill into a taunting shorthand: slam-dunk.
As in, it was a "slam-dunk" that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction. Or so Tenet said, with the kind of unambiguous self-assurance that Bush so admires. These will go down as Tenet's famous last words, even though he uttered them more than a year ago.
"George, how confident are you?" the president asked Tenet, in an exchange depicted in Bob Woodward's book "Plan of Attack."
"Don't worry, it's a slam-dunk," Tenet said.
A war ensued, a presidency was redefined and a non-basketball player became forever affixed to the term "slam-dunk."
Every so often, a political figure utters a word or phrase that rises to the level of an epitaph. Al Haig said, "I am in charge"; Bill Clinton said, "It depends what your definition of 'is' is"; and Richard Nixon said, "I am not a crook." Howard Dean screamed his famous last word ("eeeyaow"), and Dan Quayle merely looked stunned as Lloyd Bentsen impaled him with "You're no Jack Kennedy."
George H.W. Bush will forever be saying "Read my lips," while Bob Dole will always be glaring at him, telling him to "stop lying about my record."
Now comes Tenet, whose phrase captures the ethos of not just one person but of an entire administration. In basketball, slam-dunks score points, please the home crowd and taunt the opposition -- in the same way that supporters of the administration appreciate Bush for his decisiveness while critics deride it as arrogance.
Sometimes slam-dunks clang off the back of the rim and sail to half-court. The would-be slam-dunker is mocked and embarrassed. Only, in basketball, this is a temporary state. In politics -- and particularly in wartime -- Tenet's clang reverberates far longer.
One of the downsides of being a figure of responsibility and consequence -- unlike, say, a TV pundit -- is that people actually keep track of what you say. They might even hold it against you if you're wrong.
"Slam-dunk is the only thing Tenet has ever said, as far as I know," says Steven Schier, a professor of political science at Carleton College in Minnesota. This, of course, is not fair, in the same way that it's not fair that Bill Buckner's long and distinguished baseball career inevitably comes down to his error that lost the sixth game of the 1986 World Series.
But certain errors take on lives of their own, especially when rendered in sound-bite form. "Nobody's corporate memory is big enough to hold all the complexities of one person," says former congresswoman Pat Schroeder. "You're looking for a hook into someone, something to grab onto."
Tenet hooked himself. He is a victim of his own pithiness. If he had been long-winded and equivocal, Washington would have forgotten his words, if not his guidance. If he had spoken, say, in Kerryese: Mr. President, I am fairly certain that there is a strong case, a solid case, a convincing case, that Saddam Hussein could well possess, according to what we know now, weapons of mass destruction . . .
Instead, Tenet's "slam-dunk" offers an object lesson in famous last word-play: It combines pop culture jargon and monumental stakes.
"Tenet's statement is so clear, direct, assertive and just completely wrong," says Ralph Whitehead, a political analyst who teaches journalism at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst. There's a populist satisfaction at work, says Whitehead. "It's reassuring to know that even the big boys can be so totally, demonstrably off base."
Clare Boothe Luce once said that history gives leaders a single line, such as "Lincoln freed the slaves," or "Churchill faced down Hitler." Ideally, the line is flattering, but that is determined by events. If, for instance, weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, Tenet's "slam-dunk" line could have just as easily been his triumphant slogan. It would have been writ large and proud on the banner of his career: His "Mission Accomplished," in other words.
© 2004 The Washington Post Company
From Wikipedia.
Tenet and Iraq WMD controversy
According to a report by veteran investigative journalist Bob Woodward in his book Plan of Attack, Tenet privately lent his personal authority to the intelligence reports about Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) in Iraq. At a meeting on December 12, 2002 he is said to have assured the President that the evidence against Saddam amounted to a "slam dunk case," although Tenet has refused to confirm that he said this. The search following the 2003 invasion of Iraq by U.S., British and international forces has proved unproductive and no stockpiles of WMD were found following the occupation of the country. The case of the invading governments for a legitimate war against Iraq had been based largely on the threat of WMDs in the hands of Saddam Hussein, supposedly on the strength of reliable intelligence assessments, including evidence that could not itself be made public. Thus a failure subsequently to find any banned weapons or programs became a considerable embarrassment for Tenet and the CIA.
[edit] Resignation from the CIA
Citing "personal reasons," Tenet submitted his resignation to the President on June 3, 2004. James Pavitt, his Deputy Director for Operations at the CIA announced his resignation the following day, leading to speculation that the exit of both senior intelligence officials was related to the controversy over alleged Iraqi WMDs and the decision to go to war. Admiral Stansfield Turner (retired), director of the CIA under President Carter, said, "I think the president feels he's in enough trouble that he's got to begin to cast some of the blame for the morass that we are in Iraq on to somebody else and this was one subtle way to do it," (Boston Herald, June 4, 2004).
However, President George W. Bush voiced support for Tenet's efforts, stating, "George Tenet did a superb job for America. It was a high honor to work with him, and I'm sorry he left," (Reuters, June 5, 2004). Some intelligence observers also regarded it as noteworthy that Tenet and Pavitt left just a few months before the 2004 presidential election, one in which the performance of intelligence agencies in the lead up to the war in Iraq was a major campaign issue.
hamburger wrote:this report from the BBC seems to fall into the category of
"good news / bad news" .
the good news is that 1,000 (!) british soldiers arrested 7 (?) iraqi policemen suspected of killing and extortion .
the bad news is , that those "police" death-squads seem to be roaming all over iraq .
you be the judge .
hbg
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the BBC reports :
Iraqi police arrested in UK raid
British soldiers have carried out arrests of several Iraqi policemen
UK troops have arrested seven Iraqi police officers suspected of corruption and leading a death squad in Basra.
More than 1,000 troops are reported to have been involved in the dawn raid, which was backed up by tanks.
The operation was the first stage in moves to disrupt and ultimately disband the Serious Crime Unit in the city.
British forces in Basra say some commanders were using the unit as a cover for death squads and criminal activities which they controlled.
A military spokesman has told the BBC that rather than solving serious crimes, the unit was carrying them out.
source :
...GOOD NEWS / BAD NEWS ?...
From the article you submitted;
Quote:A British army spokesman said the operation was a significant step towards cleansing the Iraqi police service - and should be a warning to corrupt and criminal officers that they would be brought to justice.
Ya, sure, just like arresting a drug dealer is going to send a warning to the rest of the drug dealers that their behavior will not be tolerated. Why it scares them so much that we no longer have a drug problem.
cicerone imposter
Remember Bush also said Rumsfeld did a good job as he booted him out the door. It's a shame that there is no one to say Bush did a good job[ I am gagging on the words] and boot him out the door.
So ci where does that put Mr. Drumheller and his statement that Tenet told them he had evidence that WMD's did not exist?
Lot of questions here that need to be cleared up.
xingu wrote:ican711nm wrote:xingu wrote:
...
You know something ican, you would have made a good guard in a Nazi concentration camp.
You know something xingu, you
make a very obedient Neo-nazis terrorist propagandist. You obediently chose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers.
Using non-murderers as their shields, murderers in Iraq murder more than 100 non-murderers each day. However, you strive to focus everyone's attention away from that, and instead strive to focus everyone's attention on the occassional killings of non-murderers by those risking their lives trying to prevent murderers from murdering.
Oh really?
Yes, oh really!
Show me evidence that all those other than the children were guilty. Show me the evidence that they used the children as shields.
I didn't claim all those other than the children were guilty. The evidence that the non-murderers--including the children--were used as shields is: the murderers fired on the marines and blew in half one marine from the building where the non-murderers--including the children--were also located.
You obediently chose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers. You continue to obediently choose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers.
I suggest you read the article in the Post that I supplied.
It was cold-blooded murder, the type of murder you support.
Quote:The Marines shot them at close range and hurled grenades into the kitchen and bathroom, survivors and neighbors said later. Khafif's pleas could be heard across the neighborhood. Four of the girls died screaming.
Only 13-year-old Safa Younis lived -- saved, she said, by her mother's blood spilling onto her, making her look dead when she fell, limp, in a faint.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html
Quote:"Marines overreacted . . . and killed innocent civilians in cold blood," said one of those briefed, Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), a former Marine who maintains close ties with senior Marine officers despite his opposition to the war.
Using non-murderers as their shields, murderers in Iraq murder more than 100 non-murderers each day. However, you strive to focus everyone's attention away from that, and instead strive to focus everyone's attention on the occassional killings of non-murderers by those risking their lives trying to prevent murderers from murdering.
If the 8 marines did what you say they did, they are guilty of murder and should be convicted and punished.
Where is your outrage about what the Iraqi mass murderers, who murder more than 100 Iraqi non-murderers per day, are doing? Where is your detailed description of each and every mass murder perpetrated by the Iraqi mass murderers? Why dwell on one mass murder by 8 US marines and ignore the thousands of mass murders those who are not US or allied military?
ican711nm wrote:xingu wrote:ican711nm wrote:xingu wrote:
...
You know something ican, you would have made a good guard in a Nazi concentration camp.
You know something xingu, you
make a very obedient Neo-nazis terrorist propagandist. You obediently chose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers.
Using non-murderers as their shields, murderers in Iraq murder more than 100 non-murderers each day. However, you strive to focus everyone's attention away from that, and instead strive to focus everyone's attention on the occassional killings of non-murderers by those risking their lives trying to prevent murderers from murdering.
Oh really?
Yes, oh really!
Show me evidence that all those other than the children were guilty. Show me the evidence that they used the children as shields.
I didn't claim all those other than the children were guilty. The evidence that the non-murderers--including the children--were used as shields is: the murderers fired on the marines and blew in half one marine from the building where the non-murderers--including the children--were also located.
You obediently chose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers. You continue to obediently choose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers.
I suggest you read the article in the Post that I supplied.
It was cold-blooded murder, the type of murder you support.
Quote:The Marines shot them at close range and hurled grenades into the kitchen and bathroom, survivors and neighbors said later. Khafif's pleas could be heard across the neighborhood. Four of the girls died screaming.
Only 13-year-old Safa Younis lived -- saved, she said, by her mother's blood spilling onto her, making her look dead when she fell, limp, in a faint.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html
Quote:"Marines overreacted . . . and killed innocent civilians in cold blood," said one of those briefed, Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), a former Marine who maintains close ties with senior Marine officers despite his opposition to the war.
Using non-murderers as their shields, murderers in Iraq murder more than 100 non-murderers each day. However, you strive to focus everyone's attention away from that, and instead strive to focus everyone's attention on the occassional killings of non-murderers by those risking their lives trying to prevent murderers from murdering.
If the 8 marines did what you say they did, they are guilty of murder and should be convicted and punished.
Where is your outrage about what the Iraqi mass murderers, who murder more than 100 Iraqi non-murderers per day, are doing? Where is your detailed description of each and every mass murder perpetrated by the Iraqi mass murderers? Why dwell on one mass murder by 8 US marines and ignore the thousands of mass murders those who are not US or allied military?
I asked you to show me the evidence, not make false statements.
anyone suffering from short-term memory loss might want to read what CBS reported at that time .
hbg
...CBS REPORTS - OCTOBER 2004...
au and xingu, Bush always tells the American People his administration always "did a good job for our country." That's the reason why Bush gave Tenet the highest US civilian medal to Tenet after his departure.
When Rummy was feted with a farewell party, Cheney said "Rumsfeld was the best Secretary of Defense" our country ever had. If he's the "best our country ever had," why was he booted out? Logic, anybody?
Tenet contradicted himself to agree with Bush's "persuasive" style of communication when he said "it's a slam dunk." He's about as responsible for the 3,000 soldiers deaths and by some estimates, over 50,000 innocent Iraqis.
They don't seem to have any difficulty sleeping at nights. I believe Graves is made from the same calcified brain-type.
xingu wrote:
...
I asked you to show me the evidence, not make false statements.
Evidence of what? Please be specific.
Which statements of mine do you allege are false? Please be specific.
ican711nm wrote:xingu wrote:
...
I asked you to show me the evidence, not make false statements.
Evidence of what? Please be specific.
Which statements of mine do you allege are false? Please be specific.
Quote:You obediently chose not to mention how many of those 24 persons killed by those 8 marines were murderers of non-murderers.
Give me evidence that all those killed, with the exception of the children, were involved in the roadside bombing. Give me evidence that the children were used as human shields, as you suggested.
Apparently the military thinks there's something to this as they are charging them with murder.
ican wrote:
Quote:Why dwell on one mass murder by 8 US marines and ignore the thousands of mass murders those who are not US or allied military?
Because, my friend, they are our Marines and we would like to believe that our Marines do not murder people, they fight wars. War is the most base human activity, it is brutal, bloody and merciless to any enemy in active arms, but we like to believe that even in the midst of the worst circumstance a human can be in, there can be avoidance of harm to the innocent. It is a fragile, hopelessly romantic, ideal. Still, we cling to it. We are Americans in the best sense of that word.
Joe(semper fi)Nation
Insurgents offer U.S. 30-day truce to get out of Iraq
POSTED: 7:25 p.m. EST, December 22, 2006
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The leader of an umbrella organization for Iraqi insurgent groups is offering the United States a one-month truce to withdraw all U.S. forces from Iraq and turn over its military bases "to the mujahedeen of the Islamic state."
In an audiotape posted on Islamic Web sites Friday, a speaker identified as Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, the leader of the Mujahideen Shura Council, said that if U.S. forces begin withdrawing from Iraq immediately and leave their heavy weaponry behind, "we will allow your withdrawal to complete without anyone targeting you with any explosive or anything else."
"We say to Bush not to waste this historic opportunity that will guarantee you a safe withdrawal," al-Baghdadi said on the audiotape.
The United States was given two weeks to respond to the offer.
The Mujahideen Shura Council is an umbrella group formed in late 2005 that includes several terrorist and insurgent groups, including al Qaeda in Iraq.
On the audiotape, al-Baghdadi also called on officers from the former Iraqi army to join an "army of the Islamic state," promising them a house and a salary as long as they pass a "test of faith" intended to demonstrate the extent of their "hatred" for Saddam Hussein and his regime.
The U.S. military Friday reported five U.S. troop deaths, while Iraqi authorities reported the discovery of a dozen bodies and the kidnapping of a Sunni imam in Baghdad.
One soldier was killed and another wounded when attackers targeted a coalition patrol west of the capital, the U.S. military said. Three Marines and a sailor assigned to Regimental Combat Team 7 died Thursday from wounds suffered during combat in Anbar province, the military also said.
The deaths bring the December U.S. military death toll to 73 and the overall total during the war to 2,955; seven U.S. contractors also have been killed.
