THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

au1929 wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

Making it worse? Imagine the bloodshed if the US pulls out and leaves the militias and terrorists to have their way with the civilians in Iraq... The only reason Iraq has a chance to survive the a-holes vying for power is BEACAUSE the US is there keeping the government in control.

It's the terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists making things worse, not the US. I know many either can't or won't understand that, but it's the truth.

Who do you think is responsible for the picture of pending doom youfforecastst for Iraq.

Obviously you didn't actually read the post you quoted or you would already know the answer and wouldn't have to ask stupid questions.

McGentrix wrote:

au1929 wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

Making it worse? Imagine the bloodshed if the US pulls out and leaves the militias and terrorists to have their way with the civilians in Iraq... The only reason Iraq has a chance to survive the a-holes vying for power is BEACAUSE the US is there keeping the government in control.

It's the terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists making things worse, not the US. I know many either can't or won't understand that, but it's the truth.

Who do you think is responsible for the picture of pending doom youfforecastst for Iraq.

Obviously you didn't actually read the post you quoted or you would already know the answer and wouldn't have to ask stupid questions.

As usual the obvious sailed over your head.The Iraq dilemma is in total the result of Bush'smisguided pre emptive arttack of Iraq.
The blood of those killed and wounded both ooalition and Iraqi is on his hands.

Ican, regarding the number of Iraqi deaths, you are taking the word of a Republican hack over Johns Hopkins University.
...

Thanks Walter

That article says

"This country has been turned by two of the most powerful and civilised nations on Earth into the most hellish place on Earth. Armies claiming to bring democracy and prosperity have brought bloodshed and a misery worse than under the most ruthless modern dictator. This must be the stupidest paradox in modern history. Neither America nor Britain has the guts to rule Iraq properly, yet they lack the guts to leave.

Blair speaks of staying until the job is finished. What job? The only job he can mean is his own."

and I agree with that.

McTag wrote:

Thanks Walter

That article says

"This country has been turned by two of the most powerful and civilised nations on Earth into the most hellish place on Earth. Armies claiming to bring democracy and prosperity have brought bloodshed and a misery worse than under the most ruthless modern dictator. This must be the stupidest paradox in modern history. Neither America nor Britain has the guts to rule Iraq properly, yet they lack the guts to leave.

Blair speaks of staying until the job is finished. What job? The only job he can mean is his own."

and I agree with that.

"Neither America nor Britain has the guts to rule Iraq properly, " I wonder what that means? Is the author suggesting we haven't been brutal enough?

Making it worse? Imagine the bloodshed if the US pulls out and leaves the militias and terrorists to have their way with the civilians in Iraq... The only reason Iraq has a chance to survive the a-holes vying for power is BEACAUSE the US is there keeping the government in control.

It's the terrorists and Islamic fundamentalists making things worse, not the US. I know many either can't or won't understand that, but it's the truth.

BAGHDAD - Violence and the use of torture has increased exponentially in Iraq since the United States-led occupation of the country began in 2003, according to local analysts.

"Violence in Iraq has destroyed the integrity and structure of the country. Development and reconstruction has been delayed and, in addition, the human rights situation, which was the reason for the US invasion in Iraq, has worsened when compared to [former President] Saddam Hussein's regime," said Barak Ibrahim, a political analyst and professor at Mustansiryiah University.

Ibrahim and other specialists at the university say that violence in Iraq will continue despite different reconciliation plans being proposed because insurgency and militia actions are a response to the US-led occupation.

"If we go deep into the cause that prompted such violence we will find in the end that the presence, especially, of US-troops in the country has generated revolt and loss of patience by fighters and only when they [the occupation forces] leave the country can we start to speak about improvement in security issues," Ibrahim said.

The analysts made their remarks following the release on Wednesday of the UN Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI) report which stated that human rights violations were rapidly escalating in Iraq and that the death toll was worryingly high.

"Human rights violations, particularly against the right to life and personal integrity, continued to occur at an alarming daily rate in Iraq," said the UNAMI report.

The US continues to assert that the removal of Saddam Hussein's government was necessary as it posed a threat. "Saddam's regime posed a risk that the world could not afford to take. The world is safer because Saddam Hussein is no longer in power," said US president George Bush in a speech on 11 September.

Bodies were severely tortured

According to the report, bodies sent to the capital's morgue habitually bore signs of severe torture, including acid-induced injuries, burns caused by chemical substances, missing skin, broken bones, backs, hands and legs, missing eyes and teeth and wounds caused by power drills or nails.

The Iraqi authorities confirmed that most of the bodies that were found in the past six months bore signs of serious torture.

"Unfortunately, the information released by UNAMI in its report is true and reflects the reality of Iraq today. Most of the bodies found were tortured and were sometimes even impossible to recognise," said Dr Fa'aq Amin, director of the Institute for Forensic Medicine at the Ministry of Health.

UNAMI's report said that 3,590 civilians were killed in July and 3,009 in August. The Iraqi Health Ministry said that of those murdered in July, some 1,855 were killed because of sectarian or political violence, and another 1,583 died as a result of bombings and shootings.

Baghdad's morgue reported nearly 1,800 killings in July and 2,000 in August in the capital alone.

"It is possible that the numbers could be higher than those reported at our morgue because not all killings in the country are registered with us," Amin added.

More than 20,600 Iraqi civilians have died in attacks since January according to UNAMI. Between 43,269 and 48,046 civilians were killed since the US-led occupation began in March 2003, according to the NGO Iraq Body Count.

"Human rights violation is not only a crime against humanity but also the deprivation of a life which Iraqis have dreamt of during Saddam Hussein's regime but which they cannot have because of insurgency and terrorism," said Khuman Ahmed, human rights adviser at the Ministry of Human Rights.

Honour killings

The UNAMI report also warned of the increasing number of honour crimes against women in the country.

"In their fight against generalised violence, central, regional and local authorities should provide greater protection to women for crimes committed within the family, including all types of violence against women and girls on the grounds of honour," the report said.

"The killing of a woman in Iraq will not command the same media attention as that of a man. Honour killing is a terror that women in Iraq have been suffering from and those responsible should pay drastically for that," said Nuha Salim, spokesperson for the Baghdad-based NGO Women Freedom Organisation (WFO).

The release of UNAMI's report came a day before the handing over of security control by British and Italian troops to Iraqi forces in the province of Dhi Qar in southern Iraq on Thursday.

It was the second of 18 provinces to have foreign troops withdrawn, the first one being neighbouring Muthanna in July 2006. Dhi Qar has experienced a minimal number of attacks and has been under the protection of coalition forces since 2003.

However, analysts are sceptical that the withdrawal of foreign troops from the province would bring long-term stability.

"The Dhi Qar handover was a good beginning but will not make any difference to insurgents and militias. The base still remains and the US military have no idea when they are going to leave our country. Every day the date for withdrawal is postponed causing more death and violence as a result of generalised revolts," Professor Ibrahim said.

The US administration says that it will not pull out its forces until Iraqi forces are sufficiently trained to take over. "We're training Iraqi troops so they can defend their nation," said Bush in his 11 September speech. "We're helping Iraq's unity government grow in strength and serve its people. We will not leave until this work is done.

"Whatever mistakes have been made in Iraq, the worst mistake would be to think that if we pulled out, the terrorists would leave us alone. They will not leave us alone. They will follow us. The safety of America depends on the outcome of the battle in the streets of Baghdad."

Insurgents say they will not change their ways until all coalition troops have left the country.

"Only when we see the Americans get out of Iraq will we put our weapons in the rubbish heap," said Abu Khalifa, a spokesperson for the militia Muhammad Army.

...
The Iraq dilemma is in total the result of Bush'smisguided pre emptive arttack of Iraq.
The blood of those killed and wounded both ooalition and Iraqi is on his hands.

ican711nm
Have you ever heard of cause and effect. Bush's uncalled for and unjusrtified attack setoff this wave of killings. If not Bush who than should we blame for this months 91 American dead in Iraq. .

You mean the sunni deathsquads that Saddam employed have somehow vanished and have been replaced with these new and improved anti-US ones? Your thesis seems to mean that had Bush and the US not invaded Iraq no one would have died and Iraq would have remained the very model of Utopia that it was, is that correct?

I think it is important to remember that before the war happened, the Iraqi people were not my enemy. Now a vast number of them are. That should tell you something about this war, and what it will mean for the future safety of America.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I think it is important to remember that before the war happened, the Iraqi people were not my enemy. Now a vast number of them are. That should tell you something about this war, and what it will mean for the future safety of America.

Cycloptichorn

It's also important to remeber that before the war a huge majority of Iraqi's were basically slaves to a dictator and had almost no freedoms. Now a vast majority of them have the freedom to hate someone without fear of an agent of Saddam killing them and their family. That should tell you something about this war.