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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 09:53 am
Reuters

Quote:
Al Qaeda gains recruits from Iraq war - UN study
Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:10 PM BST

By Irwin Arieff

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - A U.N. report released on Wednesday said the Iraq war provided al Qaeda with a training centre and recruits, reinforcing a U.S. intelligence study blaming the conflict for a surge in Islamic extremism.

The report by terrorism experts working for the U.N. Security Council said al Qaeda was playing a central role in the fighting in Iraq as well as inspiring a Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan, several hundred miles (km) away.

"New explosive devices are now used in Afghanistan within a month of their first appearing in Iraq," said the report. "And while the Taliban have not been found fighting outside Afghanistan/Pakistan, there have been reports of them training in both Iraq and Somalia."

Al Qaeda, it said, "has gained by continuing to play a central role in the fighting (in Iraq) and in encouraging the growth of sectarian violence, and Iraq has provided many recruits and an excellent training ground," it said.

The report said that al Qaeda's influence may soon wane in Iraq, citing some fighters' complaints that they were unhappy to learn upon arriving in the country that they would have to kill fellow Muslims rather than foreign fighters or could serve their cause only as suicide bombers.

The report was prepared by a team of experts set up to monitor the effectiveness of Security Council sanctions imposed on the Taliban and al Qaeda shortly after the September 11 attacks on the United States.

A 2001 council resolution requires all 192 U.N. member-nations to freeze the assets and travel of any person or group suspected of ties to al Qaeda or Afghanistan's former Taliban rulers, and bars arms deals with them.

U.S. President George W. Bush faced heavy criticism from political foes after parts of the U.S. National Intelligence Estimate leaked out this week, revealing intelligence experts' conclusion that Islamic extremists were "increasing in both number and geographic dispersion" due to the Iraq war.

The study, prepared in April, said the war had become a "cause celebre for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of U.S. involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement."

U.S. Ambassador John Bolton said it was natural that war would lead to more violence, citing as an example Japan's World War II attack on Pearl Harbor and the U.S. response.

"If you said after the attack on Pearl Harbor that the American response had increased the violence in the Pacific, you would be right, wouldn't you? Because violence did increase after the attack and after our response," he told reporters.

"We are in conflict with international terrorism and the nature of that conflict is playing out in Iraq," he said.


Part of the whole point behind these reports that Iraq has become a breeding ground for the terrorists, is the fact that we don't seem to be actually winning there; by which I mean, the end doesn't seem to be coming any closer.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 10:00 am
I'm too lazy to reproduce all the links to back this up; just know that every fact is cross-linked if you follow the one I provide.

Quote:
IRAQ: The Enormous Price In Cold, Hard Statistics
by SusanHu
Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 08:48:28 AM PDT

Nearly $2 billion a week paid by U.S. taxpayers

Half a trillion dollars since 2001 for Iraq and Afghanistan

2,709 American troops killed

18,000 Iraqis in U.S.-run prisons (per Sen. John Warner, floor, U.S. Senate, Sept. 27, 2006)

6,599 Iraqis killed in July and August 2006 alone

44,000 Iraqis (est.) killed since 2003

250,000 Iraqis have fled in the last seven months


* SusanHu's diary :: ::
*

The "heralded" Iraq police academy -- costing $75 million -- is a "disaster"; feces and urine "rained from the ceilings in student barracks"

Al Qaeda gains recruits from Iraq war - U.N. study

Saudi Arabia building a $500-million, 540-mile fence across Iraqi border (part of $12 billion security package)

The Lincoln Group has been awarded a two-year $12.4 million contract to monitor news organizations' coverage of the war in Iraq, including CNN, correspondent Barbara Starr told Lou Dobbs

Republicans repeatedly "vote no" to increase veterans funding; HUD denies contract to firm "critical of President Bush"


=======

From Cost of Iraq war nearly $2b a week, Boston Globe, Sept. 28, 2006:

Quote:
A new congressional analysis shows the Iraq war is now costing taxpayers almost $2 billion a week -- nearly twice as much as in the first year of the conflict three years ago and 20 percent more than last year -- as the Pentagon spends more on establishing regional bases to support the extended deployment and scrambles to fix or replace equipment damaged in combat.

The upsurge occurs as the total cost of military operations at home and abroad since 2001, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, will top half a trillion dollars, according to an internal assessment by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service completed last week. [...]

[A] major factor in the growth of war spending is the result of a dramatic rise in ``investment costs," or spending needed to sustain a long-term deployment of American troops in the two countries, the report said. These include the additional purchases of protective equipment for troops, such as armored Humvees, radios, and night-vision equipment; new tanks and other equipment to replace battered gear from Army and Marine Corps units that have been deployed numerous times in recent years; and growing repair bills for damaged equipment, what the military calls ``reset" costs.

At least one lawmaker, referring to reports of equipment shortages in the war zones and at US bases where troops are training for combat, says some of the spending is misplaced. ``While we are spending billions in Iraq to build and maintain massive bases, we cannot [effectively] repair our abused equipment or replace it," US Representative Martin T. Meehan , a Lowell Democrat and member of the House Armed Services Committee, said in a statement. [...]

... nder the category of "procurement," the funds designated for "resetting the force" -- replacing or repairing equipment damaged in combat and preparing for long-term fighting -- has jumped from $7.2 billion in 2004 to $20.9 billion in 2005, and $22.9 billion this year. Separately, the Army has told Congress that it estimates it will need at least $36 billion more for equipment, while the Marine Corps has reported it needs nearly $12 billion. [...]

``You would expect [operating costs] to level off if you have the same level of people," said the report's principal author, Amy Belasco, a national defense specialist at the Congressional Research Service. ``You shouldn't have as much cost to fix buildings that were presumably repaired when you got there. It's a bit mysterious."


From Al Qaeda gains recruits from Iraq war - U.N. study:

Quote:
The report by terrorism experts working for the U.N. Security Council said al Qaeda was playing a central role in the fighting in Iraq as well as inspiring a Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan, several hundred miles (km) away.

"New explosive devices are now used in Afghanistan within a month of their first appearing in Iraq," said the report. "And while the Taliban have not been found fighting outside Afghanistan/Pakistan, there have been reports of them training in both Iraq and Somalia."

Al Qaeda, it said, "has gained by continuing to play a central role in the fighting (in Iraq) and in encouraging the growth of sectarian violence, and Iraq has provided many recruits and an excellent training ground," it said.


From "Heralded Iraq Police Academy a 'Disaster'," Washington Post, Sept. 27, 2006, via Daily Kos diary, "**** hitting fan in Iraq - literally":

Quote:
A $75 million project to build the largest police academy in Iraq has been so grossly mismanaged that the campus now poses health risks to recruits and might need to be partially demolished, federal investigators have found.

The Baghdad Police College, hailed as crucial to U.S. efforts to prepare Iraqis to take control of the country's security, was so poorly constructed that feces and urine rained from the ceilings in student barracks. Floors heaved inches off the ground and cracked apart. Water dripped so profusely in one room that it was dubbed "the rain forest."

"This is the most essential civil security project in the country -- and it's a failure," said Stuart W. Bowen Jr., the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, an independent office created by Congress. "The Baghdad police academy is a disaster."

Bowen's office plans to release a 21-page report Thursday detailing the most alarming problems with the facility.

Even in a $21 billion reconstruction effort that has been marred by cases of corruption and fraud, failures in training and housing Iraq's security forces are particularly significant because of their effect on what the U.S. military has called its primary mission here: to prepare Iraqi police and soldiers so that Americans can depart. [...]

Inside the inspector general's office in Baghdad on a recent blistering afternoon, several federal investigators expressed amazement that such construction blunders could be concentrated in one project. Even in Iraq, they said, failure on this magnitude is unusual. When asked how the problems at the police college compared with other projects they had inspected, the answers came swiftly.
"This is significant," said Jon E. Novak, a senior adviser in the office.

"It's catastrophic," DeShurley added.

Bowen said: "It's the worst."


From Lou Dobbs Tonight, CNN, Sept. 27, 2006:

Quote:
The Iraqi prime minister today met with tribal leaders from Al Anbar Province, trying to win their support in the war against Al Qaeda. The meeting reflects rising concern about the direction of the military campaign in Al Anbar Province. A recent Marine Corps intelligence report saying the United States has already lost the political battle to defeat the enemy there. Michael Ware, who has been recently with the U.S. Marines in Al Anbar now reports from Baghdad -- Michael.

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: Lou, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al Maliki has met with the leaders of 16 tribes vowing to fight against Al Qaeda domination of the western province. Whilst this is being hailed as a step forward, this has been seen before. And these 16 tribal figures only represent relatively powerless sub-tribes, which are already the subject of an intense assassination and car bomb campaign by Al Qaeda.

However, this is the model that the U.S. military is hoping will work to drive a wedge between Sunni insurgents and communities in this province and Al Qaeda. A senior coalition military intelligence official today said that this template has worked in other western towns. By empowering the local tribes, this official says, the U.S. has seen the towns reclaimed by the Iraqis and retaken from Al Qaeda.

And there has since been a campaign launched by these tribes of targeted assassinations against Al Qaeda leaders in their area. Nonetheless, with 30,000 troops in this province, the Marine general command says he does not have enough men at his disposal to win against this Al Qaeda-lead insurgency at this point -- Lou.

DOBBS: Michael Ware reporting from Baghdad.


From "Murray Says Bush Administration's Failures on Veterans Care and Iraq War Planning Demand Congressional Oversight," Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.), Sept. 26, 2006:

Quote:
On June 23rd, the VA revealed a massive shortfall of $3 billion. [...]

[O]n March 10th, I offered an amendment in the Senate Budget Committee to increase veterans funding by 3% so we could hire more doctors and provide faster care to veterans. Unfortunately, Republicans said no.

That same month, the VA's internal monthly reports showed that demand for healthcare was exceeding projections. That was another warning sign that the VA should have shared with us, but it didn't. On March 16th, Senator Akaka and I offered an amendment here on the Senate floor to increase veterans funding by $2.85 billion. Once again, Republicans said no.

The next month, on April 5th, Secretary Nicholson wrote to Senator Hutchison saying - "I can assure you that the VA does not need emergency supplemental funds in FY 2005."A week later, on April 12th, I offered two amendments on the Senate floor to boost veterans funding. First, I asked the Senate to agree that the lack of veterans funding was an emergency and that we had to fix. Republicans said no. Then I asked the Senate to agree that supporting our veterans was a priority. Again, Republican said no. As a result, veterans didn't get the funding they needed, and the deception continued.

On June 9th, I asked Secretary Nicholson at a hearing if he had enough funding to deal with the mental health challenges of veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. He assured me the VA was fine.

So for six months we had happy talk that everything was fine with the VA. Then, in June - just two weeks after the Secretary's latest assurance -- the truth finally came out. On June 23rd, the VA revealed a massive shortfall of $3 billion. I went to work my colleagues, and we came up with the funding. But we could have solved that problem much earlier and saved veterans the delays they experienced. [...]

Whether dealing with the large number of veterans with severe physical injuries, or traumatic brain injuries, the VA has no plan. Whether dealing with the 16 percent of wounded service members coming back from Iraq who have eye injuries, which Walter Reed reported in August - the VA has no plan. Whether it is dealing with the over one third of all service members to return home and separate from the military who are seeking mental health services - the VA has no plan. ...


This isn't listed in the statistical news stories above the fold, but it's one more important story that the American people aren't hearing. From The Situation Room segment with Jack Cafferty, CNN:

Quote:
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: We don't know yet if there will be an October surprise but there may well be a November surprise. There are reports the Pentagon is considering sending more of our National Guard troops into battle in Iraq after the election.

See, five years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan have stretched the army almost to the breaking point. And while the Washington brain trust that's running this operation continues to deny that there's a manpower shortage or that we might need a draft to fight these two wars, a lot of soldiers are on their third and fourth combat tours.

So the administration is considering sending more National Guard troops over there to fight. But they're not going to tell us, before the election. It's the same old story. Keep the bad news to themselves until after the election. The National Guard consists of part-time civilian soldiers. They didn't sign up because they wanted to do combat duty in Iraq. And besides, what if we get another Katrina or something worse here at home?

Do we really want the National Guard 10,000 miles away, bogged down in the quicksand that's become Iraq? Here is the question. Should the United States commit additional National Guard troops to the war in Iraq? E-mail your thoughts to [email protected], or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile.


More excerpts from the news stories listed above the fold are available by clicking on their links.


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/9/28/114828/395

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 11:27 am
War is hell!

Our fallibility, no matter how well or poorly documented, is epidemic!

ICT's war on humanity is also epidemic!

Our defense against ICT's war on humanity must nevertheless be won!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 11:29 am
The leflibs allege that the USA caused and/or causes the development and expansion of ICT by defending itself and others against ICT. The leflibs imply that the development and expansion of ICT would have been less or non-existent if the USA had not defended itself and others against ICT.

The leflibs allege that Israel's efforts to protect itself against its destruction by ICT were excessive.

ICT are evil enemies of humanity.

ICT = Islama Caliphate Totalitarians (e.g., al-Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Taliban, Baathists, et al).

ICT are waging war against non-combatants.

Protectors of non-combatants are waging war against ICT to end ICT's war against non-combatants.

ICT are waging war against Israeli, Iraqi and Afghan non-combatants.

Israeli, Iraqi, and Afghan protectors of non-combatants are waging war against ICT to end ICT's war against Israeli, Iraqi, and Afghan non-combatants.

ICT are waging war against American non-combatants.

American protectors of non-combatants are waging war against ICT to end ICT's war against Israeli, Iraqi, Afghan, and American non-combatants.

ICT must be exterminated, because ICT's evil is not negotiable.

ICT are evil enemies of humanity.

All our efforts to exterminate ICT are not excessive efforts to defend ourselves.


The leflibs are frauds and/or fools and/or schizophrenics.

Are you a leflib?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 11:40 am
ican711nm wrote:
War is hell!

Our fallibility, no matter how well or poorly documented, is epidemic!

ICT's war on humanity is also epidemic!

Our defense against ICT's war on humanity must nevertheless be won!


I reject your terms, because they don't mean anything at all. Just conveinent labels for you to ignore individual variation in purpose and intent and action and blanket demonize people as inhuman.

That being said, I agree that our 'war' must be won; but, we aren't currently winning. What can we do to win? My guess is, that nobody knows the answer to this question, because the situation has spun out of control.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 11:51 am
Saddam and al-Qaeda ICT were alleged to be enemies prior to 9/11/2001.

Saddam and al-Qaeda ICT were alleged to be enemies after 9/11/2001.

Abetted by Iran, the al-Qaeda ICT grew rapidly in Iraq from December 2001 to March 2003.

Saddam did not remove ICT al-Qaeda from Iraq when USA requested Saddam remove ICT al-Qaeda from Iraq.

Some allege that Saddam would not have allowed al-Qaeda ICT to grow in Iraq like al-Qaeda ICT grew in Afghanistan.

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 11:59 am
ican wrote:
Saddam did not remove ICT al-Qaeda from Iraq when USA requested Saddam remove ICT al-Qaeda from Iraq.


Excuse me, you got your facts wrong. Saddam, as you well know, could not remove the Al Qaead base in northeastern Iraq because Saddam was not allowed to go into that part of the country.

George Bush could have destroyed the base three times and killed Zarqawi as well but he refused. There was no reason Bush could not have attacked Zarqawi so we have to assume it was Bush, not Saddam, that was protecting Al Qaeda.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:01 pm
Quote:

Excuse me, you got your facts wrong. Saddam, as you well know, could not remove the Al Qaead base in northeastern Iraq because Saddam was not allowed to go into that part of the country.


I want to add to this, before Ican's predictable response, that our 'requesting' that Saddam take out this supposed terrorist camp is not the same thing as giving him permission to operate in that area, at all.

Look, Saddam was an evil butcher, but he's not an idiot. He knew that we were looking for an excuse to attack him. Why wouldn't we have used the excuse that he had invaded a zone where he wasn't allowed to go, as a pretense for attack? Neither the US nor the UN officially removed the no-fly or no-go zones, to give him the ability to act freely.

This is a stupid tack to take.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:12 pm
There is no evidence that Fatah seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate.

There is no evidence that Hamas seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate.

There is no evidence that Hezbollah seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate.

There is no evidence that the Taliban seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate (and Afghanistan was never at any time ruled by the Caliphate).

Not only is there no evidence that the Ba'ath Arab Socialist Party seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate, the Ba'athists are a secular political party, and derive from pan-Arabist movements in Iraq and Syria after the collapse of the Osmanli Turkish Empire in 1918. The Ba'ath Arab Socialist party was specifically established in 1947, in several nations with large ethnic Arab populations. The two strongest branches, and the only ones to survive into contemporary times were in Iraq and Syria, and these split in the early 1960s.

Hamas is an organization of Sunni Palestinians. Hezbollah is an organization of Shi'ite Lebanese. Fatah has always declared itself to be a secular party, and although its membership is largely Sunni (as are the majority of Palestinians), it does contain some of the few Palestinian Shi'ites (mostly ethnic Egyptian Fatamid Shi'ites) and a handful of Druze. Almost all Sunnis and Shi'ites deny not only that the Druze are Shi'ites, but even deny that they are truly Muslims.

The Taliban are a Sunni organization. Most of the Muslims of Afghanistan are Sunnis, with the only significant number of Shi'ites being among the very small ethnic Persian minority. There has, in fact, been more than one organization at least casually called Taliban, which derives from talib, a romanized version of the Arabic word meaning "seeker," and therefore referring to students, specifically in Afghan history, the students educated in the madrassas of Pakistan after their parents fled the communist take-over in Afghanistan, and who became mujahadin after the Soviet incursion. The Taliban which governed Afghanistan were those "students" who derived from the Pathan (or Pushtun, as the currently popular spelling has it) "minority" in southern Afghanistan, and who returned to the Kandahar region to fight the Soviets. Although an absolute minority, the Pathans are the largest single ethnic group in Afghanistan. Small wonder they're resurgent and kickin' NATO ass now.

Therefore, this:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I reject your terms, because they don't mean anything at all. Just conveinent labels for you to ignore individual variation in purpose and intent and action and blanket demonize people as inhuman.


--is not only a glaringly accurate description of the rightwing demonization propaganda, but ought to be painfully obvious to anyone familiar with the history (even only the recent history) of the Muslim world. From this, one can conclude not only that Ican't is peddling hateful propaganda, but that he knows nothing about Muslim history, recent or ancient.

I'm not chasing down links. It is a simple matter to do some online searches and find out that these groups are some of them Sunni, some of the Shi'ite and some of them secular--and none of them allied one to the other.

If they seem to be allied, i would refer people to the ancient Arab saying, which predates even the birth of Islam:

I against my brother, my brother and I against our cousin, all of us against you.

Nothing unites Muslims more than the perception that the United States is already out to get them, and drivel such as that with which Ican't customarily regales us serves as a telling example of why they think so.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:23 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
War is hell!

Our fallibility, no matter how well or poorly documented, is epidemic!

ICT's war on humanity is also epidemic!

Our defense against ICT's war on humanity must nevertheless be won!


I reject your terms, because they don't mean anything at all. Just conveinent labels for you to ignore individual variation in purpose and intent and action and blanket demonize people as inhuman.

Your rejection of my terms, I call 'em labels, is to me an irrational issue. I think the obvious individual differences you champion are far less significant to the survival of the human race than I infer you think they are.

All ICT have one common attribute. They all either commit, abet, advocate, and/or tolerate murder (i.e., the intentional and deliberate killing) of non-combatants who do not share their system of beliefs.


That being said, I agree that our 'war' must be won; but, we aren't currently winning. What can we do to win? My guess is, that nobody knows the answer to this question, because the situation has spun out of control.

I know one thing necessary, but probably not sufficient, for the USA in particular and humanity in general to win this war. We must all unite in unambiguous support for those leading and fighting this war. Otherwise, our enemy is encouraged to continue beyond that point it might otherwise continue in the face of large numbers of its own casualties.

It's in our interest to postpone our further derision of President Bush until after he leaves office.

Of course, it's in our own interest to select a replacement for President Bush that we think can and will do a better job.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:32 pm
Setanta wrote:
There is no evidence that Fatah seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate.

There is no evidence that Hamas seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate.

There is no evidence that Hezbollah seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate.

There is no evidence that the Taliban seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate (and Afghanistan was never at any time ruled by the Caliphate).

Not only is there no evidence that the Ba'ath Arab Socialist Party seeks the re-establishment of the Caliphate,
...


There is much evidence now that Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Baathists, and the members of the al-Qaeda federation seek the re-establishment of the Caliphate.

"I'm not chasing down links. It is a simple matter to do some online searches and find out that these groups" are in fact" now allied one to the other.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:36 pm
Quote:

"I'm not chasing down links. It is a simple matter to do some online searches and find out that these groups" are in fact" now allied one to the other.



You don't even need a link, it is obvious why:


I against my brother, my brother and I against our cousin, all of us against you.


We, in attacking Iraq, have united and strengthened our enemies tremendously. You don't seem to understand, though, that our enemies aren't looking to come together with one another and form a new gov't, an Islaamic caliphate; they are cooperating to get rid of the US, and that's it.

It doesn't take links to see that infighting amongst the various Muslim sects is pretty damn common, yet you present them as if they were a unified front. They most certainly are not.

Just more simplicity and ignorance from the Right wing...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:47 pm
ican711nm wrote:
There is much evidence now that Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Baathists, and the members of the al-Qaeda federation seek the re-establishment of the Caliphate.


As Cyclo points out, if that were the case, one ought not to be surprised given the incredibly idiotic invasion of Iraq.

However, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If there is much evidence that all of these groups seek the re-establishment of the Caliphate, you should have no trouble providing examples of that evidence for us--other than your bald assertions.

But you never fail to amuse . . . a Qaeda federation . . . you crack me up . . .
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:03 pm
xingu wrote:

...
Excuse me, you got your facts wrong. Saddam, as you well know, could not remove the Al Qaead base in northeastern Iraq because Saddam was not allowed to go into that part of the country.
...

Saddam, as you well know, could remove the al-Qaeda base in northeastern Iraq, because Saddam was allowed to do exactly that by our express requests to go into that part of the country for the express purpose of extraditing the Al Qaeda base.


Sad, I want you to go arrest Zar, but don't go where he is, because I've declared it off limits to you. Huh! Laughing
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:04 pm
I guess Ican't has never heard of the Kurds.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:08 pm
Setanta wrote:
I guess Ican't has never heard of the Kurds.


After our invasion of Iraq, some of our special forces helped the Kurds remove the al-Qaeda base.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:11 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Setanta wrote:
I guess Ican't has never heard of the Kurds.


After our invasion of Iraq, some of our special forces helped the Kurds remove the al-Qaeda base.


How.. but that didn't answer... Ah, sh*t, I give up.

It's too frustrating to have conversations with people who won't give a goddamned inch, even when shown the error in their ways, but instead change the subject...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:12 pm
Setanta wrote:

...

But you never fail to amuse . . . a Qaeda federation . . . you crack me up . . .


According to bin Laden's fatwas, al-Qaeda is a federation of groups with common objectives.

According to the 9/11 commission, al-Qaeda is a federation of groups with common objectives.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:14 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Setanta wrote:

...

But you never fail to amuse . . . a Qaeda federation . . . you crack me up . . .


According to bin Laden's fatwas, al-Qaeda is a federation of groups with common objectives.

According to the 9/11 commission, al-Qaeda is a federation of groups with common objectives.


Sure, but Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Ba'ath party are not a part of Al Qaeda. Neither is Iran.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 01:23 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
It's too frustrating to have conversations with people who won't give a goddamned inch, even when shown the error in their ways, but instead change the subject...

Cycloptichorn


I find it entertaining "to have conversations with people who won't give a goddamned inch, even when shown the error in their ways, but instead change the subject..." I find it even more entertaining "to have conversations with [those same] people" who repeatedly accuse me of doing exactly what they do.

Ansar al-Islam had members who were alleged by Kurds generally to be extremist Kurds. Also, Ansar al-Islam was a member of the al-Qaeda federation along with many other groups. Also Kurds with some US special forces assistance removed Ansar al-Islam from northeastern Iraq after the US invaded Iraq.
0 Replies
 
 

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