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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

 
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 05:57 pm
BBB
Vietnamnurse wrote:
Good posts, Xingu. I just finished reading Tom Rick's book on Iraq, "Fiasco". Have you read it? We can't get out according to him. Because of our early failures in the war, we are doomed to stay for a very long time. The closing chapters are gloomy as hell about what would happen if we pick up and leave. He gives several cogent scenarios and I am convinced he is right. Bush has gotten us into a morass that the military warned about and were proved correct. I can remember discussing this on Able before we went in about the tribal factions centuries old that would be present. Now we are weakened with an Iran that is very aware with a nuclear capability to come. Sigh....


I recently posted a leaked report that when planning our invasion of Iraq, his staff had to spend several hours explaining the hundreds of years of disputes between the Shiites and the Sunnis. Turns out Bush didn't know about that. He said he though all arabs were just muslims and was completely unaware of the competing factions and the tribal rivalry.

We have never had a president so ignorant of world history. He had never been a world traveler. He rarely reads books. He only thinks with his guts. What a loser!

BBB
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 06:12 pm
NYTimes

Quote:
August 15, 2006
Iraqi Death Toll Rose Above 3,400 in July


Only slightly higher than predicted by some here, that number.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 12:07 am
I don't see the point in holding anyone (Maliki/Bush) accountable for the nightmare of Iraq anymore, I mean at this point I don't think there is anything anyone at all can do. It's just horrible.

Quote:

Now the British government's confidential briefings on Iraq have been leaked too - and they are markedly at odds with the official line.

William Patey's telegram does not depart from the official formula that civil war is neither imminent nor inevitable. But he does say it is probably the more likely outcome, at this stage, along with the break-up of Iraq.

Even what he witheringly refers to as President Bush's lowered expectations for Iraq - of a government that can sustain and defend itself - must "remain in doubt".

Reality

To be fair to the British ambassador, he does write that the situation is not hopeless, but he warns that the next five to 10 years will be "messy and difficult". No wonder he describes himself as a pessimist on Iraq.

These thoughts have gone to the UK prime minister, foreign secretary, defence secretary, and senior military commanders.

But the judgment that the Iraqi government cannot defend itself, still less defend Iraqis, only reflects the reality on the ground.

It sometimes feels as if Baghdad is descending into madness. Over the past seven days, within sight of our bureau, we have seen a simultaneous suicide, rocket and mortar attack and a car bombing.

Last night in Baghdad, a bomb was planted under a football pitch to kill children as they played.

Sectarianism spreads

An Iraqi man, Ahmed Muktar, told me a typical story of these times. His family fled sectarian violence in the suburb of Dora. But his brother-in-law returned to check on his house. He was kidnapped.

The police, the hospitals, the morgues - none had any official record of the missing man. So his family went to the dumping ground for bodies on the edge of Dora.

There they found him, amid a pile of 50 corpses, hands tied behind his back, shot in the head.

They had to recover him while under constant automatic fire, the police and troops nearby too scared to help.

Mr Muktar is an academic with the rather unlikely specialism in the minor Scottish poets. He is a civilised, gentle man, but - as a Shia - he says his family now rejoice in the deaths of Sunnis.

All of this is why the coalition - quite at odds with the stated strategy - is about to massively reinforce Baghdad.

Meanwhile, Shias like Mr Muktar are turning to the so-called popular committees for self-defence now being formed in Baghdad.

That is another reason to worry, as ambassador Patey does, that civil war is the likely outcome in Iraq.


source
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 07:20 am
Vietnamnurse wrote:
Good posts, Xingu. I just finished reading Tom Rick's book on Iraq, "Fiasco". Have you read it? We can't get out according to him. Because of our early failures in the war, we are doomed to stay for a very long time. The closing chapters are gloomy as hell about what would happen if we pick up and leave. He gives several cogent scenarios and I am convinced he is right. Bush has gotten us into a morass that the military warned about and were proved correct. I can remember discussing this on Able before we went in about the tribal factions centuries old that would be present. Now we are weakened with an Iran that is very aware with a nuclear capability to come. Sigh....

I didn't read the book but I saw him on Jon Stewart's Daily Show. He talked about all the documents he saw that Congress never had access to. He can't believe how ignorant Congress is about this whole affair.

It's not that Congress can't get the information, they're just not interested. This administration has virtually no oversight or accountability for anything they do and the Republicans in Congress want to keep it that way so as not to embarrass the President or their party. If that's not the reason I can't think of any other. Anyway, that's why we need a Democrat Congress, so we can investigate what this mess is all about and how it came about. We need another special prosecutor like the one Clinton had dogging him for his two terms. When an administration like Bush's feels that no one can touch them they will do what ever they want. With power comes arrogrance and the abuse of power.

As for getting out, well maybe we can't, I don't know. I would like to think we can and should. I know there are Shiites, a growing number of them, who want us out. If we don't get out we will have to deal with them soon. The greatest source of instability outside the Sunnis insurgents are the Shiite militias. Initially formed by al-Sadr but, like Bush's war, they have grown and have become uncontrollable. As Sadr has become more mainstream, he joined the United Iraqi Alliance, many of his militia heads abandoned him and have become more militant. They are very anti-American and anti-Sunnis.

One more thing I would like to say about all this. Conservatives say the Muslim fanatics attack us because they hate our democracy. That's not true. The fanatics came about for the same reason all fanatics have come about in the past, massive poverty and oppression. Poor people have nothing to lose. Rich people do. The rich want to maintain the status quo and the poor want to change it. Each is looking after their own self interest. Religion is the glue that binds them together. Oppression instills the anger to make them strike out.

In Afghanistan the Taliban are the dirt poor who have been taught to hate the rich foreign countries of an alien religion by the Wahhabis sent to Pakistan and other parts of the Muslim world by Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has a lot to do with fanning the flames of hate but Bush says they're our friends. This hatred fueled by their poverty eventually spreads and sucks in others that are more well off. This is especially true when their lands and invaded. The West's constant interference in the Muslim countries coupled with oppressive poverty and oppressive governments that we support have led to a hard core group of religious fanatics that will not be defeated nor go away.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 07:27 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
NYTimes

Quote:
August 15, 2006
Iraqi Death Toll Rose Above 3,400 in July


Only slightly higher than predicted by some here, that number.

Cycloptichorn


For the month of June the Baghdad morgue had a body count of 1,595. Can't understand why ican insist on using a site that gives the total body count for all of Iraq in June as 853.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 07:35 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Vietnamnurse wrote:
Good posts, Xingu. I just finished reading Tom Rick's book on Iraq, "Fiasco". Have you read it? We can't get out according to him. Because of our early failures in the war, we are doomed to stay for a very long time. The closing chapters are gloomy as hell about what would happen if we pick up and leave. He gives several cogent scenarios and I am convinced he is right. Bush has gotten us into a morass that the military warned about and were proved correct. I can remember discussing this on Able before we went in about the tribal factions centuries old that would be present. Now we are weakened with an Iran that is very aware with a nuclear capability to come. Sigh....


I recently posted a leaked report that when planning our invasion of Iraq, his staff had to spend several hours explaining the hundreds of years of disputes between the Shiites and the Sunnis. Turns out Bush didn't know about that. He said he though all arabs were just muslims and was completely unaware of the competing factions and the tribal rivalry.

We have never had a president so ignorant of world history. He had never been a world traveler. He rarely reads books. He only thinks with his guts. What a loser!

BBB

The neocons have shown themselves to be very ignorant about a lot of things. This is what happens when you are driven by political ideology and/or religious dogma. You lose all sense of rational thought. Your ideology/dogma is your master. You do anything and everything you can to defend it. It supplants ethics and morals. This holds true for the right as well as the left.

It's odd that many people must have a cause this the cause becomes their master. They're lost without their master directing them.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 08:54 am
Veteran Baghdad Reporter Punctures Upbeat U.S. Assessments
Veteran Baghdad Reporter Punctures Upbeat U.S. Assessments
By E&P Staff
Published: August 15, 2006 11:25 AM ET

Journalists in Iraq are often criticized for being too positive or too negative about the conflict there -- or for sticking to their home offices as violence escalates. Yet there is much evidence that often they are still able to obtain, and express, a more accurate assessment of conditions in the country than top military officers or visiting politicians.

Tom Lasseter of the McClatchy (formerly Knight Ridder) bureau in Baghdad has long been the forefront of both daring and on-the-mark reporting from the war zone. In his latest dispatch, he observes, "As security conditions continue to deteriorate in Iraq, many Iraqi politicians are challenging the optimistic forecasts of governments in Baghdad and Washington, with some worrying that the rosy views are preventing the creation of effective strategies against the escalating violence.

"Their worst fear, one that some American soldiers share, is that top officials don't really understand what's happening. Those concerns seem to be supported by statistics that show Iraq's violence has increased steadily during the past three years."

Lasseter then quotes an unnamed intelligence office, who has written the reporter (apparently without the military's permission), "As an intelligence officer ... I have had the chance to move around Baghdad on mounted and dismounted patrols and see the city and violence from the ground. I think that the greatest problem that we deal (besides the insurgents and militia) with is that our leadership has no real comprehension of the ground truth. I wish that I could offer a solution, but I can't. When I have briefed General Officers, I have given them my perspective and assessment of the situation. Many have been surprised at what I have to say, but I suspect that in the end nothing will or has changed."

The reporter reveals that McClatchy is withholding the officer's name to protect him from possible retaliation by his superiors or political appointees in the Pentagon "for communicating with the news media without authorization."

But he does quote by name Mahmoud Othman, a Kurdish member of parliament, who says, "The American policy has failed both in terms of politics and security, but the big problem is that they will not confess or admit that. They are telling the American public that the situation in Iraq will be improved, they want to encourage positive public opinion (in the U.S.), but the Iraqi citizens are seeing something different. They know the real situation."

Othman told Lasseter that top American officials spend most of their time in the heavily guarded Green Zone and at large military bases and don't know what's happening beyond.

Another man, a Shiite parliament member named Jalaladin al Saghir, offered: "All the American policies have failed because the American analysis of the situation is wrong; it is not related to reality, The slaughtered Iraqi man on the street conveys the best explanation" for what's happening there.

Yet American military and civilian leaders continue to offer generally upbeat assessments. Lasseter notes some recent comments, then adds dryly, "In the week that followed, at least 110 Iraqis died in a series of bombings and shootings, and at least eight U.S. soldiers and Marines were killed. The Iraqi death toll probably was much higher, since many Iraqis are killed by death squads and their bodies are undiscovered, buried or dumped in rivers."

Then Lasseter adds, frankly, "Nationwide statistics during the past three years suggest that American efforts to secure Iraq aren't succeeding. While various military operations have at times improved security in parts of the country, the bloodshed has mounted with each U.S.-declared step of progress, according to figures that the Brookings Institution research center compiled from news and government reports."

Today, the American military said that two car bombs ignited a gas line in the explosion that killed at least 63 Iraqis on Sunday -- retreating from its earlier assertions that the explosion was the result of an accidental gas leak.

Also Tuesday came news that more Iraqi civilians were killed in July -- about 3,400 -- than in any other month of the war, according to Iraqi Health Ministry and morgue statistics, despite a security plan begun by the new government in June.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 11:19 am
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 11:28 am
I saw that interview; Kristol got his ass handed to him by Holbrooke.

It's pretty easy for Kristol to say that we can hold out in Iraq longer, as he has nothing at all on the line....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 01:14 pm
xingu wrote:
ican wrote:
Now I want to think about your proposal in terms of what its likely consequences are to the achievement of another objective: maintenance of the security of the USA's democracy. Winning in Iraq the way you propose may or may not be better for securing the USA's democracy than the USA remaining in Iraq and persisting in its attempt to make the Iraqi government become what is better for securing the USA's democracy.

The maintenance of our security will depend on our behavior toward other nations and cultures.
I agree! Either we are effective defending ourselves against those self-proclaimed Islamists who repeatedly proclaim they are murdering and will continue to murder infidels who are enemies of Islam (i.e., murder non-believers in Islam--much of humanity in general and many Americans in particular), or we are ultimately doomed to foist a "big brother" totalitarian government on humanity's posterity in general and American's posterity in particular.
...
What is happening to us today is mainly the fault of our arrogance and mistreatment of other smaller countries much like the European nations during the colonial times. No one is fighting us because they hate our democracy; they're fighting us because they hate our foreign policy.
I disagree! What is happening to us today is mainly the fault of those self-proclaimed Islamists who seek totalitarian power over us by murdering as many of us as is necessary to achieve their objective.
...

The question we should be debating is what is the best way to defend ourselves against those self-proclaimed Islamists who are seeking to foist a "big brother" totalitarian government on humanity's posterity in general and American's posterity in particular.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 05:45 pm
Xingu:

Agree with you on all points, especially about congress. I would love to discuss with you Tom Ricks book...especially the last chapter.

I will never forget discussing with my dear friend Mamajuana about the tribal factions in Iraq...both of us had educated ourselves about this before we went to war. This was not taken into consideration, but many of the generals knew and they acted wisely when others did not. The book is about those heros who knew how to deal with people with dignity and those who did not. That is one of the biggest reasons of our failure as it was in Vietnam. Not understanding the culture. The generals who did get it were either not listened to or demoted. Many left the service.

The congress has much to answer for, but Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Bush, and General Franks and Meyers do also. And Tenet. Medals of Freedom, PUHLEEZE! Probably to shut them up....
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 09:09 pm
VNN

One of the many interesting bits in Suskind's latest book (ought to be read) is the statement by one of Tenet's senior al Qaeda operatives, also a friend of Tenet, and no longer in the CIA (many of the experienced operatives left with the arrival of the Republican stooge at the top) who said that Tenet would like to give the medal back. Tenet comes out rather well, if far too obsequious to authority, in the book.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 09:36 pm
The question we should be debating is what is the best way to defend ourselves against those self-proclaimed Islamists who are seeking to foist a "big brother" totalitarian government on humanity's posterity in general and American's posterity in particular.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 04:10 am
ican711nm wrote:
The question we should be debating is what is the best way to defend ourselves against those self-proclaimed Islamists who are seeking to foist a "big brother" totalitarian government on humanity's posterity in general and American's posterity in particular.


I can tell you right now ican the invasion of Iraq was not the way to do it. There were no "self-proclaimed Islamists [/i]who are seeking to foist a "big brother" totalitarian government on humanity's posterity" in Iraq, just a secular dictator fighting Shiite guerrillas being supported by Iran.

And an attack on Iran will make things worse.

Something to consider. We can't control the situation in Iraq because of the incompetence of the Bush administration. Everything they have done in this war on terrorism has been a failure. Why is Osama bin Laden still alive? Why are we losing control of Afghanistan? Why is the Taliban regaining strength? All because of George Bush's incompetence.

So you want to know the best way to fight terrorism? Get rid of George Bush and his administration. This is an administration of failure.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 04:17 am
Vietnamnurse wrote:
Xingu:

Agree with you on all points, especially about congress. I would love to discuss with you Tom Ricks book...especially the last chapter.

I will never forget discussing with my dear friend Mamajuana about the tribal factions in Iraq...both of us had educated ourselves about this before we went to war. This was not taken into consideration, but many of the generals knew and they acted wisely when others did not. The book is about those heros who knew how to deal with people with dignity and those who did not. That is one of the biggest reasons of our failure as it was in Vietnam. Not understanding the culture. The generals who did get it were either not listened to or demoted. Many left the service.

The congress has much to answer for, but Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Bush, and General Franks and Meyers do also. And Tenet. Medals of Freedom, PUHLEEZE! Probably to shut them up....


Unfortunately nothing can be done until the 2006 elections. If the Republicans still maintain control of Congress Bush will see this as public support for his actions and things could get worse. There are some very strong indications that he does want to attack Iran.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 04:45 am
Ican said
Quote:
Islamists who are seeking to foist a "big brother" totalitarian government on humanity's posterity in general and American's posterity in particular.


Amazing how such a short sentence can have so much wrong about it.

First, different extremist groups often want quite different things. For example, there's far more credibility in the claim that al Qaeda want western political or corporate entities out of arab lands than what you suggest, ie world dominance.

Second, where extremist muslims wish political dominance, the 1984 analogy is a lousy one that confuses issues more than clarifies them. A very oppressive and dictatorial theocracy is the target. It's an anti-modern, tribal model. The control mechanisms described by Orwell - electronic monitoring of citizens, sophisticated information control and propaganda techniques, psychological rather than physical punishments to ensure compliance, etc - are much more likely to arise in a modern western country than in a Muslim theocracy.

Third, not only is it false to assert a generalized goal, it is particularly silly to suggest either that world dominance is that goal and sillier still to imply there might be any set of circumstances wherein they could achieve it. Kansas and Alsace and Tokyo and Toronto are in danger of Muslim overlords?!

You likely have some things to say worth the rest of us paying attention to. But sloppy thinking like the above just result in most of us ignoring you.

What gets revealed isn't just the sloppiness but how invested you are in fomenting hatred.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 04:50 am
Quote:
New assessments by the U.S. military and the intelligence community provide evidence that violence in Iraq is at its highest level yet.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/world/middleeast/17military.html?hp&ex=1155873600&en=4d76e5064c0f3ee8&ei=5094&partner=homepage
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:54 am
Another fine legacy of the Bush administration.

Quote:
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 06:19 pm
Stephen Schwartz wrote:

What Is 'Islamofascism'?
A history of the word from the first Westerner to use it.

Daily Standard
08/17/2006 12:00:00 AM

This article originally appeared on TCS Daily.

"Islamic fascists"--used by President George W. Bush for the conspirators in the alleged trans-Atlantic airline bombing plot--and references by other prominent figures to "Islamofascism," have been met by protests from Muslims who say the term is an insult to their religion. The meaning and origin of the concept, as well as the legitimacy of complaints about it, have become relevant--perhaps urgently so.

I admit to a lack of modesty or neutrality about this discussion, since I was, as I will explain, the first Westerner to use the neologism in this context.

In my analysis, as originally put in print directly after the horror of September 11, 2001, Islamofascism refers to use of the faith of Islam as a cover for totalitarian ideology. This radical phenomenon is embodied among Sunni Muslims today by such fundamentalists as the Saudi-financed Wahhabis, the Pakistani jihadists known as Jama'atis, and the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. In the ranks of Shia Muslims, it is exemplified by Hezbollah in Lebanon and the clique around President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Iran.

Political typologies should make distinctions, rather than confusing them, and Islamofascism is neither a loose nor an improvised concept. It should be employed sparingly and precisely. The indicated movements should be treated as Islamofascist, first, because of their congruence with the defining characteristics of classic fascism, especially in its most historically-significant form--German National Socialism.

Fascism is distinguished from the broader category of extreme right-wing politics by its willingness to defy public civility and openly violate the law. As such it represents a radical departure from the tradition of ultra-conservatism. The latter aims to preserve established social relations, through enforcement of law and reinforcement of authority. But the fascist organizations of Mussolini and Hitler, in their conquests of power, showed no reluctance to rupture peace and repudiate parliamentary and other institutions; the fascists employed terror against both the existing political structure and society at large. It is a common misconception of political science to believe, in the manner of amateur Marxists, that Italian fascists and Nazis sought maintenance of order, to protect the ruling classes. Both Mussolini and Hitler agitated against "the system" governing their countries. Their willingness to resort to street violence, assassinations, and coups set the Italian and German fascists apart from ordinary defenders of ruling elites, which they sought to replace. This is an important point that should never be forgotten. Fascism is not merely a harsh dictatorship or oppression by privilege.

Islamofascism similarly pursues its aims through the willful, arbitrary, and gratuitous disruption of global society, either by terrorist conspiracies or by violation of peace between states. Al Qaeda has recourse to the former weapon; Hezbollah, in assaulting northern Israel, used the latter. These are not acts of protest, but calculated strategies for political advantage through undiluted violence. Hezbollah showed fascist methods both in its kidnapping of Israeli soldiers and in initiating that action without any consideration for the Lebanese government of which it was a member. Indeed, Lebanese democracy is a greater enemy of Hezbollah than Israel.

Fascism rested, from the economic perspective, on resentful middle classes, frustrated in their aspirations and anxious about loss of their position. The Italian middle class was insecure in its social status; the German middle class was completely devastated by the defeat of the country in the First World War. Both became irrational with rage at their economic difficulties; this passionate and uncontrolled fury was channeled and exploited by the acolytes of Mussolini and Hitler. Al Qaeda is based in sections of the Saudi, Pakistani, and Egyptian middle classes fearful, in the Saudi case, of losing their unstable hold on prosperity--in Pakistan and Egypt, they are angry at the many obstacles, in state and society, to their ambitions. The constituency of Hezbollah is similar: the growing Lebanese Shia middle class, which believes itself to be the victim of discrimination.

Fascism was imperialistic; it demanded expansion of the German and Italian spheres of influence. Islamofascism has similar ambitions; the Wahhabis and their Pakistani and Egyptian counterparts seek control over all Sunni Muslims in the world, while Hezbollah projects itself as an ally of Syria and Iran in establishing regional dominance.

Fascism was totalitarian; i.e. it fostered a totalistic world view--a distinct social reality that separated its followers from normal society. Islamofascism parallels fascism by imposing a strict division between Muslims and alleged unbelievers. For Sunni radicals, the practice of takfir--declaring all Muslims who do not adhere to the doctrines of the Wahhabis, Pakistani Jama'atis, and the Muslim Brotherhood to be outside the Islamic global community or ummah--is one expression of Islamofascism. For Hezbollah, the posture of total rejectionism in Lebanese politics--opposing all politicians who might favor any political negotiation with Israel--serves the same purpose. Takfir, or "excommunication" of ordinary Muslims, as well as Hezbollah's Shia radicalism, are also important as indispensable, unifying psychological tools for the strengthening of such movements.

Fascism was paramilitary; indeed, the Italian and German military elites were reluctant to accept the fascist parties' ideological monopoly. Al Qaeda and Hezbollah are both paramilitary.

I do not believe these characteristics are intrinsic to any element of the faith of Islam. Islamofascism is a distortion of Islam, exactly as Italian and German fascism represented perversions of respectable patriotism in those countries. Nobody argues today that Nazism possessed historical legitimacy as an expression of German nationalism; only Nazis would make such claims, to defend themselves. Similarly, Wahhabis and their allies argue that their doctrines are "just Islam." But German culture existed for centuries, and exists today, without submitting to Nazi values; Islam created a world-spanning civilization, surviving in a healthy condition in many countries today, without Wahhabism or political Shiism, both of which are less than 500 years old.

But what of those primitive Muslims who declare that "Islamofascism" is a slur? The Washington Post of August 14 quoted a speaker at a pro-Hezbollah demonstration in Washington, as follows: "'Mr. Bush: Stop calling Islam "Islamic fascism,' said Esam Omesh, president of the Muslim American Society, prompting a massive roar from the crowd. He said there is no such thing, 'just as there is no such thing as Christian fascism.'"

These curious comments may be parsed in various ways. Since President Bush used the term "Islamic fascists" to refer to a terrorist conspiracy, did Mr. Omesh (whose Muslim American Society is controlled by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood) intend to accept the equation of Islam with said terrorism, merely rejecting the political terminology he dislikes? Probably not. But Mr. Omesh's claim that "there is no such thing as Christian fascism" is evidence of profound historical ignorance. Leading analysts of fascism saw its Italian and German forms as foreshadowed by the Ku Klux Klan in the U.S. and the Russian counter-revolutionary mass movement known as the Black Hundreds. Both movements were based in Christian extremism, symbolized by burning crosses in America and pogroms against Jews under the tsars.

The fascist Iron Guard in Romania during the interwar period and in the second world war was explicitly Christian--its official title was the "Legion of the Archangel Michael;" Christian fascism also exists in the form of Ulster Protestant terrorism, and was visible in the (Catholic) Blue Shirt movement active in the Irish Free State during the 1920s and 1930s. Both the Iron Guard and the Blue Shirts attracted noted intellectuals; the cultural theorist Mircea Eliade in the first case, the poet W.B Yeats in the second. Many similar cases could be cited. It is also significant that Mr. Omesh did not deny the existence of "Jewish fascism"--doubtless because in his milieu, the term is commonly directed against Israel. Israel is not a fascist state, although some marginal, ultra-extremist Jewish groups could be so described.

I will conclude with a summary of a more obscure debate over the term, which is symptomatic of many forms of confusion in American life today. I noted at the beginning of this text that I am neither modest nor neutral on this topic. I developed the concept of Islamofascism after receiving an e-mail in June 2000 from a Bangladeshi Sufi Muslim living in America, titled "The Wahhabis: Fascism in Religious Garb!" I then resided in Kosovo. I put the term in print in The Spectator of London, on September 22, 2001. I was soon credited with it by Andrew Sullivan in his Daily Dish, and after it was attributed to Christopher Hitchens, the latter also acknowledged me as the earliest user of it. While working in Bosnia-Hercegovina more recently, I participated in a public discussion in which the Pakistani Muslim philosopher Fazlur Rahman (1919-88), who taught for years at the University of Chicago (not to be confused with the Pakistani radical Fazlur Rehman), was cited as referring to "Islamic fascists."

If such concerns seem absurdly self-interested, it is also interesting to observe how Wikipedia, the online encyclopedia, dealt with the formulation of Islamofascism as an analytical tool. After a long and demeaning colloquy between me and a Wikipedian who commented negatively on an early book of mine while admitting that he had never even seen a copy of it, Wikipedia (referring to it collectively, as its members prefer) decided it to ascribe it to another historian of Islam, Malise Ruthven. But Ruthven, in 1990, used the term to refer to all authoritarian governments in Muslim countries, from Morocco to Pakistan.

I do not care much, these days, about Wikipedia and its misapprehensions, or obsess over acknowledgements of my work. But Malise Ruthven was and would remain wrong to believe that authoritarianism and fascism are the same. To emphasize, fascism is something different, and much worse, than simple dictatorship, however cruel the latter may be. That is a lesson that should have been learned 70 years ago, when German Nazism demonstrated that it was a feral and genocidal aberration in modern European history, not merely another form of oppressive rightist rule, or a particularly wild variety of colonialism.

Similarly, the violence wreaked by al Qaeda and Hezbollah, and by Saddam Hussein before them, has been different from other expressions of reactionary Arabism, simple Islamist ideology, or violent corruption in the post-colonial world. Between democracy, civilized values, and normal religion on one side, and Islamofascism on the other, there can be no compromise; as I have written before, it is a struggle to the death. President Bush is right to say "young democracies are fragile . . . this may be [the Islamofascists'] last and best opportunity to stop freedom's advance." As with the Nazis, nothing short of a victory for democracy can assure the world's security.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 06:41 pm
poppy cultivation in afghanistan
------------------------------------
since we have a large military base in our city , we get a fair amount of news about the canadian contingent posted in afghanistan .
recently a canadian major(he was quoted by name - not anonimous) stationed in afgh. gave an interview to the local newspaper .
he said that he had told his troops NOT to destroy any of the poppy plantations . he said that it is the people's only way of livelihood , and they needed the money to buy food to feed their families .
he stated that hardly any monies promised by various governments and relief organizations arrived in the villages - most of it never left kabul Exclamation
he said ; "i can't let these people starve because of stupid government policies ; we rely on their co-operation in the field and i will not make their lives even more difficult ".
hbg
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