THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

Saddam's average also includes wars fought, doesn't it? That's somewhat different than fighting in the streets.

Cycloptichorn

Steve, We can blame it on the incompetence of Bushco; they didn't listen to the experts that told them we needed upwards of 500,000 troops on the ground after the war. They dismissed that general on the grounds he did not support the incompetence of Bush et al's disagreements needing much less troops on the ground.

The borders are still not controlled, and situations on the ground have reached extreme proportions. Only "yes" men now run our military for fear of losing their jobs.

...
why {cicerone} are you attacking Bush for listening to his military advisors and not doing anything?

but here is what the
...TURKISH NEWS... reports .
a/t the report , the former u.s. ambassador to croatia thinks that a breakup of iraq is inevitable . he also thinks that turkey would recognize an independent kurdish state .

we'll see how that plays out .
hbg

...
July 19, 2006 New York Times
Iraqi Death Toll Rises Above 100 Per Day, U.N. Says
...

The Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, an independent Web site that uses news reports to do its tallies, reported that at least 738 died in June, and another 969 the previous month.

Joe Nation wrote:

...
July 19, 2006 New York Times
Iraqi Death Toll Rises Above 100 Per Day, U.N. Says
...

liebral pseudolgist sources!

From the same article:

Quote:

The Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, an independent Web site that uses news reports to do its tallies, reported that at least 738 died in June, and another 969 the previous month.

That's less than the IBC count.

Perhaps the New York Times/U.N. are including dead itm in their count?

itm = inhuman terrorist malignancy = those who murder civilians + those who abet the murder of civilians + those who advocate the murder of civilians + those who are silent witnesses to the murder of civilians + those who allow the murderers of civilians sanctuary. itm have declared war on civilians worldwide; waged war on civilians worldwide; and murdered civilians worldwide.

...
I think we have already established that the IBC is very inaccurate and reports, by its own admission, about half of all the deaths that occure in Iraq. Your insistance on using an inaccurate source and labeling all others that conflict with ICB's garbage as "liebral pseudolgist" shows that you are not the least interested in the truth or accuracy.
...

What source do you recommend? Why?

While I wait for your response, I'll assume for the sake of your argument that the IBC civilian violent death counts are one-half of the true death counts.

IBC had counted total violent deaths of Iraqi civilians:

01/01/2003 through 12/31/2005 = 33,000; average per month = 917;

01/01/2003 through 05/31/2006 = 42,879; average per month = 1,046;

01/01/2003 through 06/30/2006 = 43,687; average per month = 1,041.

{June 2006 total = 43,687 - 42,879 = 808.}

So let's adjust those numbers accordingly.

01/01/2003 through 12/31/2005 = 66,000; average per month = 1,833;

01/01/2003 through 05/31/2006 = 85,758; average per month = 2,091;

01/01/2003 through 06/30/2006 = 87,374; average per month = 2,081;

June 2006 total = 87,374 - 85,758 = 1,616.

In 24 years of the Saddam regime, from the beginning of 1979 to the end of 2002, the number of Iraqi civilian violent deaths that occurred = more than 1,000,000; average per month = 3,472.

So what do you conclude from all that?

xingu, It's because "they can't handle the truth!"

Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
I say to you ... These youths [love] death as you love life. ...
Those youths know that their rewards in fighting you, the USA, is double than their rewards in fighting some one else not from the people of the book. They have no intention except to enter paradise by killing you. An infidel, and enemy of God like you, cannot be in the same hell with his righteous executioner.

It don't matter, Ican. The point is that IBC said that they only report about half of the dead because of circumstances (or words to that effect.) Since that is so, it is not logical to use the IBC as any kind of source when citing how many civilians have died since the US and coalition invaded in 2003 since "we don't do body counts" and IBC can't do body counts body accurately due to events beyond their control. And all your liebral pseudologists is more of your usual inane mumbo jumbo.

revel wrote:

It don't matter, Ican. The point is that IBC said that they only report about half of the dead because of circumstances (or words to that effect.) Since that is so, it is not logical to use the IBC as any kind of source when citing how many civilians have died since the US and coalition invaded in 2003 since "we don't do body counts" and IBC can't do body counts body accurately due to events beyond their control. And all your liebral pseudologists is more of your usual inane mumbo jumbo.

Yes, what the true counts are, is not the issue. That's why I offered to double the IBC counts. It doesn't matter if they are believed to be double what IBC counted.

What matters is the trend in the actual counts, whatever the hell they are. If and when that trend is one of reducing monthly counts, then we can begin to rationally judge that the Iraqi people have begun solving their problem with Coalition help.