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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 02:43 pm
Amigo wrote:
The bottom line is any reasonable logical right-winger know better then to try to defend Bush and this war. They ducked out a long time ago. We are left with these people, the Bushpeople.

The whole thing is pathetic.

If Bush said 2+2=5. Sure enough we would be here arguing that 2+2=4 and not 5 the next day and the argument would go the same way intill in the end we would be reduced to screaming "Your an impossible idiot !"

Besides, every truly knowledgeable person knows 2 + 2 = 10.

[size=8]base 4[/size]
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 02:50 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
It's cause you're a dummy!


Are you suffering from a spastic colon, or are you just cranky because you forgot to take your Geritol this morning?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 04:08 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
It's cause you're a dummy!


Are you suffering from a spastic colon, or are you just cranky because you forgot to take your Geritol this morning?


Tico, I bet cice's upset to discover it truly doesn't matter to him what he thinks. Poor feller. Crying or Very sad

Can spastic colon or forgetting to take Geritol cause that? Confused
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 04:11 pm
It's because dummies follow morons as leaders. That'd be ican and ticomaya.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 04:40 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
It's because dummies follow morons as leaders. That'd be ican and ticomaya.
Laughing Shocked Laughing Confused Laughing Razz
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jul, 2006 05:05 pm
The following count is based on IBC daily counts:
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

1,976 Iraqi civilians died violently each month on the average during the five months 01/01/2006 through 05/31/2006.

975 Iraqi civilians will have died violently in June, based on the IBC numbers of 390, or 32.5 per day, for 06/01/2006 through 06/12/2006.

909 Iraqi civilians will have died violently in June, based on the IBC numbers of 394, or 30.3 per day, for 06/01/2006 through 06/13/2006.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 07:11 am
Baghdad: City of Shrinking Dreams

Quote:
Baghdad: City of Shrinking Dreams
A daily intelligence brief on Iraq, prepared by a private contractor for the U.S. military and companies working in Iraq, paints a grim picture of life in Baghdad. The daily report for July 7 documents a slew of sectarian attacks and car bombings around the capital and says that "the levels of torture and execution-style killingsĀ…illustrate the increasing disregard for human life by the perpetrators for those not of their own grouping."

The report, marked "for official use only," also goes on to describe Baghdad as a city without spirit. "Baghdad looks so exhausted these days and so do her people; the relentless violence, the lack of basic services and the scorching heat abolishes human desire to do anything or to even think of anything," says the daily report, which is compiled by SOC-SMG Inc., a Nevada-based contractor. "Living for many Iraqis was reduced to existence a long time ago; dreams and desires are shrinking under the heavy shadows of the situation." -Neil King Jr.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 10:52 am
revel, Don't you just love the "progress" being made in Iraq - according to Bush? "Stay the course" and "we will succeed in Iraq" continues to be his mantra. Can't you see all them soldiers applauding their commander in chief?
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 01:42 am
Five US soldiers in Iraq rape and murder inquiry

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Saturday July 1, 2006
The Guardian

The Pentagon said yesterday it was pursuing a new war crimes investigation into five American soldiers, alleged to have raped and murdered a young Iraqi woman and killed three members of her family in their home.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1810326,00.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:13 am
Dozens killed in Baghdad attacks
Gunmen in the Iraqi capital Baghdad have killed at least 40 people at a fake police checkpoint, in an apparent sectarian attack against Sunni Muslims.
Police say Shia militants stopped cars in the western Jihad district, separated Sunnis and shot them.

Later, at least 17 people died when two car bombs exploded near a Shia mosque in the capital, police said.

There has been an upsurge in sectarian violence in Iraq in recent months, raising fears of a civil war.

Sunni Arabs say government-backed Shia militias are behind many of the attacks. But officials have denied any involvement.

The latest violence began on Sunday morning when Shia militiamen entered Jihad and set up roadblocks.


They came and started shooting - one of my relatives tried to help but was also shot
Eyewitness

Drivers were reportedly pulled from their cars and their identity cards inspected.

Any Sunni Muslims identified were then separated from the rest and killed.

"They also went into certain Sunni houses and killed everyone inside," said a witness quoted by AFP news agency.

'Retaliation'

Another told the Associated Press news agency: "They came and started shooting. One of my relatives tried to help but was also shot while doing so. What crime have my people committed, I ask?"

Officials say they are getting reports of drive-by shootings in the area, and the number of deaths is expected to rise.


Security forces have sealed off the area and imposed a curfew, in an effort to prevent revenge attacks.
Officials said the shooting could be in retaliation for a car bomb that killed at least two people at a nearby Shia mosque on Saturday.

"For the past five months Shias have been killed and evicted from the neighbourhood," the imam of the mosque told AFP.

Hours later Baghdad's northern Kasra district was rocked by the double car bomb attack.

Police said the vehicles exploded in a market place near the local Shia mosque, killing at least 17 people and wounding 35 others.

A wave of sectarian killings has engulfed many parts of Iraq - especially Baghdad - since the bombing in February of a revered Shia shrine in Samarra.

In other violence on Sunday, an Iraqi army intelligence officer was shot dead in Karbala, south of Baghdad.

Several policemen and civilians were also killed in separate attacks around the country.



Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5162510.stm

Published: 2006/07/09 16:07:04 GMT
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:45 am
The following count is based on IBC daily counts:
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

1,976 Iraqi civilians died violently each month on the average during the five months 01/01/2006 through 05/31/2006.

975 Iraqi civilians will have died violently in June, based on the IBC numbers of 390, or 32.5 per day, for 06/01/2006 through 06/12/2006.

909 Iraqi civilians will have died violently in June, based on the IBC numbers of 394, or 30.3 per day, for 06/01/2006 through 06/13/2006.

807 Iraqi civilians will have died violently in June, based on the IBC numbers of 457, or 26.9 per day, for 06/01/2006 through 06/17/2006.

cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, ... it doesn't matter what I think; it matters a whole lot what Arabs/Muslims think. ...

I infer, cice, that you think:
(1) "it doesn't matter what [you] think";

(2) "it matters a whole lot what Arabs/Muslims think".

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 10:47 am
ican711nm wrote:
PREDICTIONS BY ICAN IN JUNE 2006

1,050 Question Iraqi civilians died violently in June 2006.

950 Question Iraqi civilians died violently in July 2006.

850 Question Iraqi civilians died violently in August 2006.

750 Question Iraqi civilians died violently in September 2006.

650 Question Iraqi civilians died violently in October 2006.

550 Question Iraqi civilians died violently in November 2006.

450 Question Iraqi civilians died violently in December 2006.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 12:08 pm
I wonder if there are any accurate, reputable news sources in Iraq, other than those controlled by the Americans, which also put some of their material on the internet? The only thing I have heard of, or read, are reports, like blogs, from individuals.
bb
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 01:28 pm
sumac wrote:
I wonder if there are any accurate, reputable news sources in Iraq, other than those controlled by the Americans, which also put some of their material on the internet? The only thing I have heard of, or read, are reports, like blogs, from individuals.
bb

I wonder if the liebral news media (i.e., ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, NYT, WP, LAT, et al) publishes much about Iraq and Afghanistan, beyond violent civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, that is "accurate, reputable news."

I trust IBC
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
to be accurate enough to show actual trends, because it publishes for example
IBC wrote:
Reported Minimum | Reported Maximum | Sources ||
Incident code | Date | Time | Location | Target | Weapons | 38901 | 43336 ||
k3279 | 17 Jun 2006 | - | Mahmudiya | Iraqi army checkpoint, civilians killed | car bomb | 5 | 7 | XIN 17 Jun | REU 17 Jun | DPA 17 Jun||
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 04:24 pm
I'm not going to rise to your bait of characterization of mainstream media, but of those that I frequent often, there is plenty of reporting about Iraq other than violent civilian deaths.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 06:35 pm
As a matter of fact, I have posted plenty of such reporting, and you have said nothing. Should I infer, Ican, that you chose not to read any of them? Perhaps because of the URL citing the source? Do you choose to remain ignorant as to what is happening with regard to Iraq?

Here are just three articles about Iraq having nothing to do with mere reporting of violent, civilian deaths.

"Congress's Turn
President Bush failed to create a fair legal system for accused terrorists. Congress can do better.

Sunday, July 9, 2006; B06



PRESSED BY the Supreme Court, Congress this week at last will begin considering how to create a legal system for foreigners held at the Guantanamo Bay prison and elsewhere abroad. Depending on the course it takes, the legislature could compound the damage of the past five years -- or it could enhance America's prestige and its fight against terrorism.

Having allowed President Bush to assert extralegal powers for nearly five years, some in Congress now want to rush through legislation that would rubber-stamp the regime that the court rejected. There is talk of completing a bill by summer's end. Some Republicans appear eager to turn what ought to be a serious debate about balancing national security and human rights into an election issue -- by labeling as soft on terrorism anyone who opposes Mr. Bush's unworkable scheme for trying Guantanamo inmates.

It's somewhat encouraging, therefore, that the Armed Services Committee under the chairmanship of Sen. John W. Warner (R-Va.) will take the legislative lead in the Senate. Mr. Warner's committee was the source last year of the sole piece of responsible legislation on foreign detainees since 2001, the ban on cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of prisoners authored by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.). Mr. Warner says he will conduct "intensive consultations" with Republicans and Democrats on his committee, the White House and legal experts before deciding how to proceed. His first hearing this week will feature testimony by serving and former military judge advocates general.

That's a good place to start, if only because so many in Congress seem to misunderstand the issues raised by Hamdan v. Rumsfeld -- especially its finding that all detainees are covered by Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. Based on their public statements, a number of senators appear to believe that any application of Geneva to al-Qaeda prisoners is equivalent to giving them prisoner-of-war rights or setting requirements that go beyond U.S. law. Some claim that American servicemen have been exposed to new legal jeopardy. None of that is true.

In fact, Geneva's Common Article 3 applies to everyone caught up in a conflict, including civilians and irregular combatants. Its requirement for minimally humane treatment falls far short of POW status and is very similar to that mandated by the McCain amendment. A federal law already requires U.S. personnel to comply with Article 3; what's more, Pentagon lawyers have determined that no authorized practice in the new Army interrogation manual violates the Geneva standard. Waterboarding and other practices in the CIA's secret prisons almost certainly do, but we're told these extreme methods have been dropped since the McCain amendment passed -- as they should have been.

So there's nothing practical to be gained by gratuitously repudiating Geneva or U.S. laws that mandate compliance with it -- and much that would be lost. To do so would effectively repeal the standard Congress adopted for prisoner treatment last year, and it would send a message to the world that the United States rejects one of the most basic international standards of human rights. Ideally, Congress should spell out what U.S. compliance with Common Article 3 should mean for prisoner treatment, or it should require the administration to publish its own guidance. But no action is better than gutting this basic standard.

As for trials, Article 3 requires simply that they be carried out by "a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples." The Supreme Court found that the Bush administration's plan for military commissions did not meet this basic standard. But the standard can be met without compromising security.


One approach, as Mr. Warner has suggested, is to start with the code of military justice and its court-martial system, which fully conform with international law. Senators can then examine what changes may be necessary to accommodate trials of accused terrorists. As we have suggested, some alterations may be needed -- for example, in order to use evidence that is highly classified.

Even better would be for Congress to comprehensively bring all aspects of detention and interrogation of prisoners under law. But as Mr. Warner points out, any system Congress sets up will again be subject to review by the Supreme Court. A hasty ratification of the administration's failed scheme, or a new concoction that fails to grant detainees basic rights, may not pass muster with the court -- and certainly won't with the rest of the world."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/08/AR2006070800727_pf.html
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 06:37 pm
This is just the first couple of paragraphs of:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/08/AR2006070800914.html?referrer=email

"L.A. Man Detained In Iraq Sues U.S.
Military Officials, Rumsfeld Named

Associated Press
Sunday, July 9, 2006; A09



LOS ANGELES, July 8 -- An aspiring Iranian American filmmaker who spent nearly two months in a prison in Iraq without being charged has sued Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and other military officials, calling the government's detention policies unconstitutional.

Cyrus Kar, 45, of Los Angeles, seeks unspecified damages and major changes in the government's detention policies overseas.

The suit was filed this week in federal court by the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California. It is the first civil case challenging detention policies in Iraq, said Mark Rosenbaum, the organization's legal director.

A phone message left for a Pentagon spokesman was not immediately returned Saturday.

When Kar was released, military officials said that he had been properly detained as "an imperative security threat" and that the matter had been handled and resolved appropriately.

"This case highlights the effectiveness of our detainee review process," spokesman Air Force Brig. Gen. Donald Alston said after Kar's release.

Kar was taken into custody in May 2005 after he visited Iraq to make a documentary film about Cyrus the Great, the Persian king who wrote the world's first human rights charter. Potential bomb parts were found in a taxi in which Kar was riding.

He was released July 10, 2005, after his family sued, accusing the federal government of violating his civil rights and holding him after the FBI cleared him of suspicion. He is a former U.S. Navy Seal, according to news reports.

The new lawsuit said his 55-day detention violated not only his civil rights, but also the Geneva Conventions and the law of nations.

"Human rights monitors note that the vast majority of the over 15,000 detainees in U.S. military custody in Iraq have never been charged, tried, provided counsel, or allowed to challenge their detention in court, and over one-fifth of them have been detained for over a year in this manner," the suit states.

Kar said that while he was imprisoned, he was at various times hooded and threatened, taunted and insulted by U.S. soldiers. One soldier slammed Kar's head into a concrete wall, the suit said."
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 06:38 pm
And the first couple of paragraphs of this one?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/08/AR2006070800904.html?referrer=email

"Haditha Probe Finds Leadership Negligent

By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 9, 2006; A13



The U.S. military officer overseeing the investigation into 24 civilian killings in Haditha, Iraq, has concluded that Marine leadership failed multiple times, including in pre-deployment training, in the tone set by commanders, and in how information was reported up the chain of command, defense officials said.

Army Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, the No. 2 officer in Iraq, found that commanders and staff at the regimental and division levels were negligent in how they conveyed orders about how to deal with Iraqi civilians and also in how they responded to conflicting reports they received from units about the Haditha incident, the officials said.

Most of Chiarelli's "Findings and Recommendations" endorse the conclusions of an investigation led by Army Maj. Gen. Eldon A. Bargewell, the officials said. Bargewell concluded that Marine commanders should have asked more questions about how and why 15 Iraqi civilians -- the number first reported -- were killed, especially after a discrepancy emerged between the first report, that they had been killed by a roadside bomb, and a later report, that they all had died of gunshot wounds. Chiarelli told colleagues that he was stunned to learn that no investigation of the incident had been conducted even after it was evident that the facts of the matter were in dispute, an official said.

Bargewell's report also criticized the Marine Corps for letting stand a statement, released in November by one of its public affairs officers, that the Iraqis had been killed by a roadside bomb, instead of correcting the record when it was clear the statement was incorrect"
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 06:39 pm
Ican,

Did you read them?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 07:01 pm
Not to forget this matter:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/world/middleeast/09abuse.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print

"July 9, 2006

U.S. Military Braces for Flurry of Criminal Cases in Iraq

By ROBERT F. WORTH

No American serviceman has been executed since 1961. But in the past month, new cases in Iraq have led to charges against 12 American servicemen who may face the death penalty in connection with the killing of Iraqi civilians.

Military officials caution against seeing the cases as part of any broader pattern, noting that the incidents in question are isolated and rare. But the new charges represent an extraordinary flurry in a conflict that has had relatively few serious criminal cases so far.

As investigators complete their work, military officials say, the total of American servicemen charged with capital crimes in the new cases could grow substantially, perhaps exceeding the total of at least 16 other marines and soldiers charged with murdering Iraqis throughout the first three years of the war.

Some military officials and experts say the new crop of cases appears to arise from a confluence of two factors: an increasingly chaotic and violent war with no clear end in sight, and a newly vigilant attitude among American commanders about civilian deaths."
0 Replies
 
 

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