Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 04:28 pm
flushd wrote:
Frank's baaaaaaack!!

Very Happy

Nice to see your smiling face again. Hope life's been good to ya.


You know me, Flushd...always very happy and content!

Life's been good...even if my poker playing has been a bit suspect.



Twisted Evil

Good to see ya.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 05:15 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
Foxfyre's contention that this issue should be handled by the states or local communities is so wrong-headed, it makes some of George Bush's decisions look good by comparison.

But I am sure Foxfyre would be arguing that same way on the slavery issue if it were still before us.


And why is that Frank?

It's quite easy (as you should well know) to post a glib response that contains some semblance of a barb, but not much more, but perhaps you can provide us with the deeper thoughts of Frank Apisa.

If allowing States to decide abortion issue is "so wrong-headed..." it should be fairly easy for you to explain to the rest of us why this is so.

There is a highly respected school of thought that argues that decisions that affect the polity should be made as locally as possible. That you disagree with this is not a problem, but your scornful dismissal of it is.

The issue of slavery in this debate is a well worn canard. By such a standard, all decisions must be made by the Federal Government, but wait...there was a period of time when all branches of the Federal Government accepted the institution of slavery. So we can't trust the States and we can't trust the Feds...who can we trust?

The UN?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 05:22 pm
Question,
Why do the same people that say the Feds must decide abortion,also say that alcohol prohibition should be left at the local level?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 06:33 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Foxfyre's contention that this issue should be handled by the states or local communities is so wrong-headed, it makes some of George Bush's decisions look good by comparison.

But I am sure Foxfyre would be arguing that same way on the slavery issue if it were still before us.


And why is that Frank?

It's quite easy (as you should well know) to post a glib response that contains some semblance of a barb, but not much more, but perhaps you can provide us with the deeper thoughts of Frank Apisa.

If allowing States to decide abortion issue is "so wrong-headed..." it should be fairly easy for you to explain to the rest of us why this is so.

There is a highly respected school of thought that argues that decisions that affect the polity should be made as locally as possible. That you disagree with this is not a problem, but your scornful dismissal of it is.

The issue of slavery in this debate is a well worn canard. By such a standard, all decisions must be made by the Federal Government, but wait...there was a period of time when all branches of the Federal Government accepted the institution of slavery. So we can't trust the States and we can't trust the Feds...who can we trust?

The UN?


The issue of slavery may be a well worn canard by your standards, Finn...but the resemblance between the morons who suggested states should decide whether slavery was okay...and the morons who suggest that states should decide if a woman can have full control of her body...should be obvious to anyone...even one of the morons.

Some questions are too important to be left to township councils...or to states. Some have to be handled on a national level.

The question of whether a woman should have control over her own body is too important to be handled the way you poor folks want it to be handled.

I doubt you will be able to understand that...but if you try to pry your mind open, it might become possible in the future.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 06:34 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Question,
Why do the same people that say the Feds must decide abortion,also say that alcohol prohibition should be left at the local level?


This is a joke, right?????

And a good one at that.


Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 07:15 pm
It seems that Frank has waddled back
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 07:50 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Note that Frank has chimed in twice now, once on his thread and once here and both times apparently just to take a potshot at me. And in both cases you have a perfect illustration of a backhanded strawman argument. Smile

Roxxanne, take notes.


That is not in any way a strawman argument. Why do you insist on exposing your ignorance?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 07:56 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Roxxanne wrote
Quote:
FF, 1) You obviously do not know what a strawman argument is 2) If you find abortion wrong, don't have one so 3) Leave the rest of us alone.


Roxxanne,



2) if your new baby is an unacceptable burden, and you think it is wrong to kill it, don't.



I don't have a new baby. What are you trying to say? You make no sense.
Unless I was raped or my health was jeopardized. I would never have an abortion. Howver, that is my choice. Other women may choose to abort. That is an inalienable guaranteed by the US Constitution.

If you have a problem with abortion, don't have one. Leave the rest of us alone.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 08:47 pm
Roxxxanne,

People like Foxfyre think they have the right to dictate their religious dogma and suspect morals to others. They think a Christian Theocracy is just wonderful!!

They don't like it if someone else tries to do that to them though! Ship her ass off to Iran, and see how she likes living under THAT bullshit theocracy!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 09:14 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Again for me, the whole issue is not just the unalienable rights of the woman that I would defend to the death. For me, it is once pregnancy occurs, there are two lives to consider, not one. And her rights don't trump the rights of the other life.


I think this is the key disagreement. I say her rights DO trump the rights of the other life. Especially prior to viability, but even after, as long as it is using her body as a life support system.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 09:31 pm
Imagine ... South Dakota ... Where they do a whole 600-800 abortions a year has led the way for the pro-lifers attack on Roe vs. Wade.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog!

Anon
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 09:40 pm
Intrepid wrote:
It seems that Frank has waddled back


I don't think Frank waddles, by the looks of his avatar he kinds of reminds me of one of my boyfirends, who is "older" but has the bod of 30 yo and "mountain bikes" 25 miles (?) a day.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 10:13 pm
Anon-Voter wrote:
Imagine ... South Dakota ... Where they do a whole 600-800 abortions a year has led the way for the pro-lifers attack on Roe vs. Wade.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog!

Anon


Do you have any kind of link to the number of abortions they do in SD every year,or is that number just made up?

Freeduck,
Quote:
think this is the key disagreement. I say her rights DO trump the rights of the other life. Especially prior to viability, but even after, as long as it is using her body as a life support system.


How far do you wanna take that?
If a woman is breastfeeding,isnt that considered life support for the infant?
After all,it cant feed itself.
So,if she killed her baby then,would that be ok?
After all,it fits right in with what you said.
0 Replies
 
mimilaura
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 10:23 pm
How about ALL men over the age of 12 be required to have a vasectomy. That would eliminate the need for abortion.

What, no one has the right to make men have a vasectomy? But, many want women to have no
right to decisions about her body...
0 Replies
 
mimilaura
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 10:25 pm
John Creasy wrote:
I say we should sterilize any woman that comes back for a second abortion. F#ck 'em.



Some man did that. That is why she needs an abortion!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 10:33 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Foxfyre's contention that this issue should be handled by the states or local communities is so wrong-headed, it makes some of George Bush's decisions look good by comparison.

But I am sure Foxfyre would be arguing that same way on the slavery issue if it were still before us.


And why is that Frank?

It's quite easy (as you should well know) to post a glib response that contains some semblance of a barb, but not much more, but perhaps you can provide us with the deeper thoughts of Frank Apisa.

If allowing States to decide abortion issue is "so wrong-headed..." it should be fairly easy for you to explain to the rest of us why this is so.

There is a highly respected school of thought that argues that decisions that affect the polity should be made as locally as possible. That you disagree with this is not a problem, but your scornful dismissal of it is.

The issue of slavery in this debate is a well worn canard. By such a standard, all decisions must be made by the Federal Government, but wait...there was a period of time when all branches of the Federal Government accepted the institution of slavery. So we can't trust the States and we can't trust the Feds...who can we trust?

The UN?


The issue of slavery may be a well worn canard by your standards, Finn...but the resemblance between the morons who suggested states should decide whether slavery was okay...and the morons who suggest that states should decide if a woman can have full control of her body...should be obvious to anyone...even one of the morons.

Some questions are too important to be left to township councils...or to states. Some have to be handled on a national level.

The question of whether a woman should have control over her own body is too important to be handled the way you poor folks want it to be handled.

I doubt you will be able to understand that...but if you try to pry your mind open, it might become possible in the future.


A typically vacuous and pathetic response Frank: "What I say is obviously correct and only a moron would question it! I'm not going to support my rant with rationale because I doubt you would understand."

It reminds me of much earlier days when a kid, who was scared to death of fighting an opponent, walked away with the (attempted) sneering comment: "I'd fight you, but I'd probably kill you."

Why do you presume that there is greater wisdom at the national level than the state or local level?

What questions are fit for the local dunces to decide?

You have completely ignored my argument that the federal dunces have repeatedly made decisions with which you would disagree, and insist that they are somehow the sages of the country.

What you and your confreres actually mean is that you want to have important issues decided by a tiny, elite band of Judges who agree with you.

Should the Supreme Court veer to the Right with the addition of Alito, oh how you will squeal about the power of five men to decide the fate of the country, just as many of you did when the SC's decision meant Bush beat Gore in 2000.

If you are unable to articulate your position beyond a broad slogan, and insist on supporting it only with vitriol, so be it.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 10:54 pm
mimilaura wrote:
How about ALL men over the age of 12 be required to have a vasectomy. That would eliminate the need for abortion.

What, no one has the right to make men have a vasectomy? But, many want women to have no
right to decisions about her body...


It would also spell the end of the human race.
Is that preferable?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 11:34 pm
mimilaura wrote:
How about ALL men over the age of 12 be required to have a vasectomy. That would eliminate the need for abortion.

What, no one has the right to make men have a vasectomy? But, many want women to have no
right to decisions about her body...


For good or bad, women play a substantially different role than men in the survival of the human species. This is irrefutable and not subject to ideological interpretation.

Most women will tell us that that they appreciate, if not cherish this difference. With the indisputable joys of motherhood comes an extraordinary responsibility.

I do not espouse the notion that if a women has sex she must be willing to procreate. Women should be able to enjoy the pleasures of sex without necessarily invoking their extraordinary responsibility, but modern science has create an environment where even the most casual of sexual actors can protect themselves from pregnancy...if they care one whit.

Preventing pregnancy and terminating pregnancy are drastically different issues.

Failure of birth control devices is a shameful canard. Such devices do not fail at a rate that even approaches the rate of abortion.

Instead we have abortion as a means of birth control for those who could not be bothered with the minimal effort to protect themselves from the start.

The abortion issue for all it's bullshite about womens' right is really an issue of our never ending quest for irresponsible convenience.
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Feb, 2006 11:59 pm
Finn,
I'd be interested to hear your thought on the 'day-after' pill.

Actually...I'd be interested to hear about the availability of the 'day-after' pill in various regions, too, if anyone can provide info.
Here it is as simply as going to a walk-in clinic, your doctor, or a woman's clinic, and asking for it. Zip to the pharm, swallow the pills, and Poof! ....no more growing thing to worry about.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Feb, 2006 12:00 am
mysteryman wrote:
Anon-Voter wrote:
Imagine ... South Dakota ... Where they do a whole 600-800 abortions a year has led the way for the pro-lifers attack on Roe vs. Wade.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog!

Anon


Do you have any kind of link to the number of abortions they do in SD every year,or is that number just made up?

Freeduck,
Quote:
think this is the key disagreement. I say her rights DO trump the rights of the other life. Especially prior to viability, but even after, as long as it is using her body as a life support system.


How far do you wanna take that?
If a woman is breastfeeding,isnt that considered life support for the infant?
After all,it cant feed itself.
So,if she killed her baby then,would that be ok?
After all,it fits right in with what you said.




Unlike you MM, I don't just say or assume things.

Quote:
Planned Parenthood, which operates the only abortion clinic in South Dakota, has pledged to sue over the measure. About 800 abortions a year are performed in South Dakota.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/02/24/national/a114732S26.DTL&type=health

Anon
0 Replies
 
 

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