Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 01:19 am
Re: Abortion
IronLionZion wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I recently read that something like 48% of the women who have had abortions, have had more than one.

This has shaken to the core my belief that a women's decision about continuing a pregnancy is one which is taken with the most profound deliberation.

If almost half of the women having abortions are on their second abortion, in a world where contraceptives are incredibly easy to obtain, what does this tell us about the current societal application of abortion?

If this statistic is valid then I utterly reject the histrionics of Senator Fienstein concerning back alley abortions using rusted hangers.

Anyone who goes back to the abortion clinic for a second time, did not have a life altering experience with the first one.

If this statistic is accurate (and I am researching it as we post) then it has moved a Pro-Choice Conservative to the Pro-Life camp.


Heh.

Has is "shaken" your beliefs "to the core"?

News flash: most aborted fetuses are minute clumps non-sentient cells. It's bizarre that you place any importance on them at all. Hell, we could have drive through abortion clinics then chop the leftover fetuses up for dog food for all I care. There is no reason - repeat, no reason - to get all sentimental over this ****.


Whoa - and here comes IronLionZion to engage me pages into the thread.
Cool.

To answer your question, yes it has "shaken" my beliefs "to the core."

Now wait, was that a real question or a smart-ass rhetorical question?

Hmmmnnnnh...maybe IronLionZion was not really interested in an exchange of ideas.

Might as well be dog food huh?

On the one hand I commend you for your lack of artifice, but on the other I condemn you for your lack of humanity.

God have mercy on your soul.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 01:30 am
Finn,

I thought it was better when you were being honest about why you object to abortion!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 01:32 am
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn,

I thought it was better when you were being honest about why you object to abortion!!

Anon


And I thought it was better when you made sense Anon.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 01:38 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn,

I thought it was better when you were being honest about why you object to abortion!!

Anon


And I thought it was better when you made sense Anon.


Now we know what you really want is pretty white babies for Joe and Mary Whitefolks ... You know that those little black and disabled babies are the ones that no one wants. Remember when you said that, or would you like a link??

Anon
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 02:06 am
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn,

I thought it was better when you were being honest about why you object to abortion!!

Anon


And I thought it was better when you made sense Anon.


Now we know what you really want is pretty white babies for Joe and Mary Whitefolks ... You know that those little black and disabled babies are the ones that no one wants. Remember when you said that, or would you like a link??

Anon


Provide a link for all I care.

I stand by everything I've posted.

That you didn't understand what I wrote says nothing about what I wrote.

Get a life.
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 02:18 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn,

I thought it was better when you were being honest about why you object to abortion!!

Anon


And I thought it was better when you made sense Anon.


Now we know what you really want is pretty white babies for Joe and Mary Whitefolks ... You know that those little black and disabled babies are the ones that no one wants. Remember when you said that, or would you like a link??

Anon


Provide a link for all I care.

I stand by everything I've posted.

That you didn't understand what I wrote says nothing about what I wrote.

Get a life.



I have a great life Finn, Thanks for the concern!! You're a real humanitarian!!

Here Ya go Finn ... Need some highlights, or can you find your quotes ok??

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1732562#1732562
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1733604#1733604

Anon
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 02:55 am
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Anon-Voter wrote:
Finn,

I thought it was better when you were being honest about why you object to abortion!!

Anon


And I thought it was better when you made sense Anon.


Now we know what you really want is pretty white babies for Joe and Mary Whitefolks ... You know that those little black and disabled babies are the ones that no one wants. Remember when you said that, or would you like a link??

Anon


Provide a link for all I care.

I stand by everything I've posted.

That you didn't understand what I wrote says nothing about what I wrote.

Get a life.



I have a great life Finn, Thanks for the concern!! You're a real humanitarian!!

Here Ya go Finn ... Need some highlights, or can you find your quotes ok??

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1732562#1732562
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1733604#1733604

Anon


I think we need some highlights
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 03:45 pm
Re: Abortion
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
IronLionZion wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I recently read that something like 48% of the women who have had abortions, have had more than one.

This has shaken to the core my belief that a women's decision about continuing a pregnancy is one which is taken with the most profound deliberation.

If almost half of the women having abortions are on their second abortion, in a world where contraceptives are incredibly easy to obtain, what does this tell us about the current societal application of abortion?

If this statistic is valid then I utterly reject the histrionics of Senator Fienstein concerning back alley abortions using rusted hangers.

Anyone who goes back to the abortion clinic for a second time, did not have a life altering experience with the first one.

If this statistic is accurate (and I am researching it as we post) then it has moved a Pro-Choice Conservative to the Pro-Life camp.


Heh.

Has is "shaken" your beliefs "to the core"?

News flash: most aborted fetuses are minute clumps non-sentient cells. It's bizarre that you place any importance on them at all. Hell, we could have drive through abortion clinics then chop the leftover fetuses up for dog food for all I care. There is no reason - repeat, no reason - to get all sentimental over this ****.


Whoa - and here comes IronLionZion to engage me pages into the thread.
Cool.

To answer your question, yes it has "shaken" my beliefs "to the core."

Now wait, was that a real question or a smart-ass rhetorical question?

Hmmmnnnnh...maybe IronLionZion was not really interested in an exchange of ideas.

Might as well be dog food huh?

On the one hand I commend you for your lack of artifice, but on the other I condemn you for your lack of humanity.

God have mercy on your soul.


Most aborted fetuses are non-sentient clumps of cells. I place as much importrance on them as I do on my nail clippings. On one level, I understand that you - like many people crippled by superstition and sentimentality - think these clumps are somehow vitally important. Perhaps you could explain why.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 04:23 pm
ILZ,
The key word there is MOST.
I agree that "non-sentient clumps of cells",probably dont matter to some people.
BUT what about the other abortions,the ones that dont fall under that category?

Shouldnt they be allowed to grow?
After all,you just admitted that those kinds of abortions do occur.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 04:48 pm
mysteryman wrote:
ILZ,
The key word there is MOST.
I agree that "non-sentient clumps of cells",probably dont matter to some people.
BUT what about the other abortions,the ones that dont fall under that category?

Shouldnt they be allowed to grow?
After all,you just admitted that those kinds of abortions do occur.


Sentience is the key thing for me. Third trimester abortions should be discouraged. But most abortions occur before the cell clump is even sentient. There's no reason to get all sentimental and superstitious about them.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 09:01 pm
Re: Abortion
IronLionZion wrote:
Most aborted fetuses are non-sentient clumps of cells.

Your position, it seems, is based on this belief. But how could you know if this is really true?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 09:31 pm
Re: Abortion
echi wrote:
IronLionZion wrote:
Most aborted fetuses are non-sentient clumps of cells.

Your position, it seems, is based on this belief. But how could you know if this is really true?


to be fair, this could be said about the idea that "life begins at conception", couldn't it ?
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:02 pm
DTOM--
As far as I know, a human being exists at conception/fertilization. That seems to be the most reasonable place to draw the line. (But I am still open minded, as always.)
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:05 pm
It is seemingly only for the sake of convenience that anyone would draw it anywhere else. What am I missing?
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 10:40 pm
Re: Abortion
echi wrote:
IronLionZion wrote:
Most aborted fetuses are non-sentient clumps of cells.

Your position, it seems, is based on this belief. But how could you know if this is really true?


Science.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Feb, 2006 11:27 pm
Science. Okay, then. I am familiar with the discipline. So... Is that it?
0 Replies
 
Xenoche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 08:27 am
Well I have a rather unique position.

My girlfriend got pregnant 8 months ago.
I would have prefered an abortion as we are struggling to survive as it is.
My girlfriend doesn't support abortion.
So we didn't.
End of story.

The way I see it, the choice to have an abortion is the parents-to-be`s
choice and theirs alone.
For one, its THERE child to be, not yours or anyone elses. For me even to debate on these choices that other people have made seems unbelievable. I commend some peoples choice never to abort, but I would never say that another persons choice to have an abortion as wrong.

Also, drawing a line to when a fetus becomes a human being is ill.
Every female on the planet can have many children from the millions of eggs within her ovaries. Each is potentially a human being, but if a woman is involved in an accident and subsequently dies we don't hold funerals for the 1 million children to be within her body.
Just as a fetus also has the potetial to become a human being.

But the child has been conceived? You might say.
In saying that many die every day to poverty, war and self inflicted civil tragedies that is the scorn of the modern "rich stay rich and poor die tryng to get rich" society. We send our fathers and our sons to war while we weep for the unborn child, that is'nt even ours.

Lets concentrate on keeping the living, alive. And worry not for the unborn, last time I looked its not like were going extinct.

The foot of the human race is almost busting the seems of the shoe of earth, I`ll be surprised if we last 50 years before were back to horse and cart.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 10:12 am
Welcome to A2K Xenoche, and you'll find several here who will agree with you. I do not as, apart from those very rare instances of pregnancy resulting from incest or rape, I believe the parents are 100% responsible for conceiving the child and for the welfare of the child until it has reached majority. The child, however, born or unborn, is a human being with unalienable rights and is ethically owned by nobody.

I don't think we can ethically determine who lives or dies based on whether s/he might or might not be a great person or might or might not have a great life. Many children were wanted but are nevetheless emotionally or physically abused or neglected by their parents.

For those that are unlucky enough to have unfit parents or who are unwanted or who are loved by parents who simply cannot provide for the child's welfare, there are thousands of loving, caring couples out there who would adopt an infant in a heartbeat. I can admire and deeply respect the parent who endures the pain of giving up a child so that it has a better chance for a better life. I cannot reconcile any justice in a decision to terminate a life because it is inconvenient or difficult for the parent or parents.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 11:20 am
Foxfyre wrote:
The child, however, born or unborn, is a human being with unalienable rights and is ethically owned by nobody.


NEWS FLASH: IT IS A NON-SENTIENT CLUMP OF CELLS WITHOUT EVEN THE CAPABILITY TO DEVELOP ON IT'S OWN.

http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/zygote.jpg
0 Replies
 
Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 12:11 pm
IronLionZion wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The child, however, born or unborn, is a human being with unalienable rights and is ethically owned by nobody.


NEWS FLASH: IT IS A NON-SENTIENT CLUMP OF CELLS WITHOUT EVEN THE CAPABILITY TO DEVELOP ON IT'S OWN.

http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/zygote.jpg


Now this little sucker needs to go out and get a job. No more lying about and being a parasite!!

Anon
0 Replies
 
 

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