RainSoft Inquiry

Re: RainSoft Purchase


You must be in Florida -

RainSoft
OHIO

DrinkCleanNoww,

Congratulations on your choice, if it all comes through as promised. Did you compare with other companies?

There is a difference at receiving the best they have to offer and getting what you need.

The fact that a company needs soooo many promotions to get you to sign is a red flag for me. The quality of the product and the4 honesty of the company should be able to serve on it own accord.

The fact that he came down soooo far on his price indicates that he has had success in the past at getting people to sign at that price but his company gives him enough rope so that he doesn't hang himself to accomplish the close.

How is it possible that three other (unrelated?) companies will take liability for the dealer's failure to uphold their promises? I found that not only unique in the business world, but dubious in a manner of practice. Where did you 'see' these companies? Can you point them out or is it a secret? How curious, I am?

Good luck on cashing in the vacation spots, which are probably lead-ins that will also cost you greatly with addendum expenses; meals, transportation, tipping, which may be required.

An RO that is 'supposed to clean everything up' is a rather glib explanation of the value of their technology.

Sorry, if I seem a bit suspicious, but any company that needs to go to such great lengths to close a deal, just sends shivers down my spin. I had a 'windows' guy do many of the same things: great price reduction, sign tonight or else, added, unrelated prizes and offers of great refunds for referrals, ad nauseum.

Anyway, congrats and good luck.

Also see: just type in a company name and observe.
complaints.com
ripoffreport.com

RainSoft
Andy,

Thanks,
Yea I checked out a $300 water conditioner at The Home Depot, which you can install underneath your kitchen sink. They also provide an outfit to supply the whole house, which costs more, but I didn't really care for what they had to offer.
We looked at getting the 5 gallon jugs delivered to our house, but we didn't want to hassle that deal either. Very affordable though.
Kinetico is also a place we checked out, but RainSoft offered up way more than Kinetico, so thats where we split.
What we needed was something to clean up the water, our city ranked very low, our grade was a D. Also the health department suggests that you do not drink tap water if you have an auto immune deficiency, so we purify the water, take vitamins along with our already healthy diet to attempt make up for the good nutrients we will miss from tap. Also getting the Air Purifier was something I could use as well, why not, and getting the best they have to offer, at the price of their lower models is good negotiating.

RainSoft has been around since 1953, those companies and coupons are incentives that the customer can take advantage of since those companies are affiliated with RainSoft (Sponsor/Customer).
The fact that he came down was because the sales reps have to feed their families, so if they can get someone to pay up that is more money in the bank. The sales rep can determine if the extra sale in his portfolio is what he needs that month instead of the commission or vice versa. Just like Cars, real estate, ebay price is negotiable.
The fact that he started so high on the price indicates that he has had success in the past at getting people to sign at that price as well.

I forgot the company names, it is in my folder at home, I will check it out and get back to you. They are like Papal on ebay, if you are not satisfied and the system doesn't work, they guarantee your money back.

Yea the vacation spots only pay for the hotel, you have to pay your own transportation, food/drinks, tip how you want I do 20% or more. There is also 1 free cruise a year. It is from FL to Nassau. I have been on that before with my buddies its a 3 day event, 1 day at sea, 1 day at Nassau, 1 day at sea. Then another 3 day cruise around the bottom tip of FL, 6 nights 7 days total. But hey beats hanging around the house for the wkd. On the cruise everything is included food and drinks. Drinks are only for beer not liquor.

RO is Reverse Osmosis if you want to read about it go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis but to be dry and short it cleans everything up.
Our sales rep was supposed to show up at 615pm. RainSoft called at 630 and said that their sales rep is sick can we reschedule. We said sure. They called back and asked if we were going to be around at 815, we said sure. They sent a different guy, he showed up at 850PM! He didn't even want to stay, who would? We actually chose for him to stay and go through his pitch. We cut it short after he did all the water testing. He wanted to get deep into his binders and statistics. We were tired and didn't want to hear the scare tactics, we were already interested. We cut to the price negotiation and that was that.
Hopefully my experience will be a positive one!

Re: RainSoft


Keep your fingers and toes crossed ~ good luck!

RainSoft
Yea no kidding, atleast you guys are not being to harsh about it. But so far so good.
I will keep you all posted.

Installation
Had the RainSoft system installed today. So far so good! Got all the soaps and goodies to come with it. They are sending an electrician free of charge to add an outlet in the basement. Did a great explanation of the system, no troubles. The manager at the local retail store called me twice today before to let me know I don't have to pay for the first 90 days. He sent the 2 man work crew with a check made out to me to cover the first 3 months. Then he called again to see if everything went ok and to let me know that someone will call me after the electrician comes to ask me if I like the system. Not to shabby.

DrinkCleanNoww,

Well, as I said, congrates and good luck.

That under-ther-sink water softener you saw at the big box store, was that a WaterBoss? I mean those are short but not really small enough to go under a sink, I thought.

What were your water specs? Hardness, TDS, Iron, Well/city, chlorine, etc.?

I suppose the Rainsoft explained the actually technology of the system didn't he? I mean how the valve works, how much salt/water you may use.

Did your health department actually inform you that the tap water should not be consummed if you had immune deficiencies? , or was that something you read through a generic local publication? And how do you "purify" your drinking water?

Naturally, if you accepted cruises, soap packages, dinners, coupons, etc., from Rainsoft, I guess you could say they 'offered' more than Kinetico. Did Kinetico actually come to your home as well? What did they offer you?

Could those supporting companies be A&B Marketing, or Discovery Marketing? I have heard of those before.

I used to live in Port Clinton, Ohio. There was a Rainsoft dealer there about ten years ago but now customers have to call Toledo for service. Unfortunately, they have to include a 'travel fee' not included in any warranty call. Where do you live?

Rainsoft's RO is a rather basic form of the technology. A prefilter, membrane, bladder-style holding tank and a post carbon filter. Some systems have a slight variations (extra in-line post filter, I believe) but they are basic in design, no special features. They will provide improved water for drinking.

Sorry for all these questions, but I like to learn how things work (or don't) and you have created some food for thought.

Thanks,
Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Andy
Some Answers to your many questions
We looked at different water systems over maybe 2-3 months. Also purchased a house, got married, and job promotion/relocatoin. So I have been fairly busy to remember details from other retailers.
I do not remember if it was WaterBoss
We had Hard water, took 10 drops to show. According to RainSoft charts, thats not very good.
TDS, IRON, not sure.
We had 1.0-1.5 chlorine in our water, which is ideal for a swimming pool.
Our water is city
Went over the valves and brine usage with the sales man, the installer was more informative. Very friendly
It was on the health departments web site I found when I was surfing on their site. Check out Columbus Ohio health department page and start sniffing around. You might find it.
I went to Kinetico and looked over different packages. I liked RainSoft better.
No, A&B or Discovery does not sound familiar, only read about them in reviews online. I do not recall hearing/seeing those names mentioned.
Underwriters Lab (UL), Good House Keeping, and National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) were the companies I was referring to earlier.
I live in Ohio, I am fortunate because the rainsoft dealer I am going through has been at the same location for 14years in a great part of town, about 20minutes away. They have 18,000 customers. Nice vans good customer service.
RainSoft is in 23 different countries, you cant win at each location. I am hoping I wont go through the headaches others have on this site.
The technology I have at the house is a step up from what I had last week.
I am sure you have more questions still, just keep it simple man, so far so good.

Re: Andy


RainSoft equipment is not the best, but your particular dealer may be able to negate any equipment shortcomings with superior service.

Best of luck to you

H20
Thanks man

Hi

You quoted this earlier and it sent my gears a spinning. I also responded by saying that this was unique in the business world....so my inquiries.

<<Not>>

Then you said:

<<Underwriters>>

Now if IO can conclude: Somehow you got the info that if your system fails, and Rainsoft doesn't honor their warranty, that these other companies will buy it back from you. Am I correct in your assumptions?

If I am, then I need to share with you some insight (or hindsight now that it is installed).

UL is an independent testing laboratory--specializing in electrical appliances--that puts items through rigour tests and validates construction and materials standards.

NSF is another independent organization that tests primarily equipment related to residential, commercial and public water systems. Their certifications are often required on public water system components and certify filters, water systems, components, etc., for residential use through expensive but thorough testing.

Good Housekeeping often conducts polls and does some research on like items and publishes results. Their research is not always scientific and may be influenced on marketing and trends.

If these are the companies that you have been told will offer refunds, whew! are you in for a shock. Where did you get this information. If the salesman told you that....well, I won't get into legal jargon but somebody's been hoodwinked and somebody is very naughty. I hope youn got that in writing or on tape.

Listen, I hate to burst your bubble cause I can tell you are--so far--very pleased with the results of the sales pitch, and I don't want to be foreboding, But I just hope this isn't the first of a long row of dominoes.

New topic:
How did Rainsoft say they would handle the "swimming pool" bleach in your water, and did they mention that that much chlorine will damage the resins in the softener? Since resins are a kind of plastic, city water containing that much chlorine will cause the resin to, eventually, turn to a mushy consistency...losing its ability to soften water at original settings. I hope this can be addressed for you.

Others may support or detract my notions here.

I don't suppose iron is an issue and it sounds like you have 10 grain per gallon. What is the diameter of your softener? 8" 10"? Height? __ "? This will help me to know if the sizing was appropriate for your usage.

Let's review something...
http://nsf.org/business/search_listings/index.asp#mname
Go to this NSF page and type in a brand name, say Rainsoft or Kinetico. You will find no softeners listed by NSF (Standard - 044) for Rainsoft, but very many by Kinetico. Also Kinetico has a P-231 listing for a microbiological RO (only one in the world).

I haven't checked the other two references but may later. This is a learning process for me, so I will take my time...but then again, I didn't buy one of those, either.

Let me get back with you...
Andy

Re: Andy
Sorry, I wanted to include this quote.

Re: RainSoft Purchase
This also....

Andy
Hey Andy, your throwing salt like rice at a wedding

Andy
Ok on a serious note, you seem to know quite a bit. Obviously more than I. I have 4 50lb brine blocks in the tower, the container is a few inches taller than that. There are only 2 of us living in the house.
The sales man said that those companies would refund the product because they guarantee it. The company logos are on the first few pages of the binder, I didn't read the type. Just went along page for page narrated by our sales rep.
Either way, so far so good. I am pleased how everything is moving along. We have the system set to clean it self once a week. I have an electrician coming out to install the outlet for free, 3months already paid, lifetime non moving part warranty, 5 year moving part warranty or vice versa, however it worded. I am not to worried about it, nothing shady has transpired.
My grandma had her system for 13 years, shes happy I haven't heard of any faults or dilemmas.
I appreciate your input though.

Just curious, but who made the initial contact - RainSoft or you?

How did it happen?

Thanks

BTW, I was instrumental in creating the modern RainSoft puppy dog binder pitch.
I'm sure it has evolved and morphed since I left RainSoft in 1999
The pitch was designed to make homeowners buy the equipment right then and there on the first visit.
All of your possible objections are to be settled before the price is quoted.
The price is meant to be "take it or leave it" with closing tools held in reserve.
If I was invited into your home there was a 98% chance you would buy . . .

My apologizes.

Boy, if the salesman simply IMPLIED that those "companies" would refund your money if Rainsoft failed to uphold their responsibilities, then you have some serious trust issues in his approach to sales and ethics. If he actually said it, you have a case of fraud. But of course Rainsoft, Inc., would disclaim and sales pitch if confronted.

If, indeed, that were the case and you called NSF for a refund, they would politely tell you that they are an independent testing organization which clearly does not support sales practices or warranty issues of any private or public company.

UL would say likewise as they offer that same 'support' to thousands of companies and would never put themselves into a liability over a company with which they have no stock in or profits to share.

Good Housekeeping would probably offer you a year's subscription and say, Sorry about your troubles....and continue to publish positive pronouncements of Rainsoft, anyway.

I will let H20man amplify this notion because he has a better track record with that company.

I looked at the NSF web site and found no Rainsoft softeners listed. They were some drinking water systems, but I could not find any softeners. I may not have researched far enough so someone please point me in the right direction.

n.b. Warranty concerns parts; guarantee concerns service. It is easy for companies to warranty parts but guarantying service is another issue altogether. It might be a matter of semantics, but it's important when giving someone thousands of dollars.

I would recommend a 'follow-up' by the salesman (as you are happy) and say you may have some referrals. Ask him point blank a number of questions and comments for him to address, confirm, and define. Your state may be perfectly legal to record such conversations for your own protection.

I don't mean cause you undue concern but from explanation, it seems to be a very puzzling sales call.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

replies
H20 I believe my Wife made the call. Also, the guy did not want to stay at all, he arrived right before 9pm! My wife did not want him to come in and start his pitch. I was the only one that wanted to get things started, he didnt bring any of his equipment in until I said lets go over this quickly. Which we did.
Andy
I am very curious as to what your research has turned up. I am going to get that sales man over the house and record our conversation. The only thing is that I bet he will deny or say I misunderstood. IF I can catch the same information we told us on the 1st day, I would have a case. Free RainSoft for me
I would rain on there parade

I was weondering about an update. Did you call him back for definitions of his assurances?

Let us know.
Andy