Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 09:28 am
In keeping with the truth...

Ecowater is owned by Ecodyne. They have one plant making all those brand names I mentioned. IIRC, it is in MN, maybe WI but it's one of the two.

All the big box store brands I mentioned share the same tanks, resin (by Purolite), distributor tubes, bottom and top distributor tube baskets, brine pickup tubes and floates. AND... the all the control valves clamp on the resin/mineral/media tank with the same clamps and clips and many of the control valves share the same parts with the exception of the GE motor. They do not share the same cabinets or all the parts of the cabinets. They share the same brine well and cap, brine tubing and drain line fitting and clip and IIRC, the same by pass valve, clips and plumbing connectors.

They do not share the same sticky or other type brand name label(s)...

There may be a part or more of the control valve internals that are not shared but I do not believe so. A Sears service guy, that services the others, has posted on the interent that he interchanges all the parts of all the big box store brands' control valves except for the GE motor. He says it is slightly different than the others. I don't know about the circuit boards, although they are very high priced at around $200 IIRC, they probably are differrent.

You can take a GE valve and put it on a Kenmore, or if the control has a separate cover, on a North Star, which comes in a two tank model instead of a cabinet model, or on a mortonsalt.com or Whirlpool on'n on up to and including the latest Ecowater 3500 if I'm right (I've not seen one yet).

All the big box store brands are considered by many consumers and/or dealers, as disposable softeners. That includes Waterboss at Lowe's.

Along this same stuff being sold under different brand names thingie...

As of about last spring or there about, some 78+ Lowe's stores in/around Phoenix were selling softeners with an Autotrol 255 with a Logix timer under the GE brand name as a 'before going national' trial..... They were and AFAIK still are, sold over the internet by the company building them in/around Phoenix for Lowe's.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 10:00 am
H2O_MAN wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
The truth works for me. Leave it at that.


I like that too, so let's try a bit more truth; you missed answering this....

Sears and other big box stores selling Kenmore, GE, Whirlpool, Mortonsalt.com, North Star etc. sell to DIYers and, all their softeners are made by the company that makes the Ecowater brand.

I've been told the Ecowater dealer version can share some of the same parts as those big box store brands.

H2OMan, is that true?


The company that makes the ECOWATER brand is ECOWATER.

ECOWATER makes NorthStar, the systems found at LOWES and others - very few parts are shared.

My suggestion:
Consumers that want the very best available should consider ECOWATER.


Like I said ~ The company that makes the ECOWATER brand is ECOWATER.
0 Replies
 
foco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 10:25 am
no hassle water system
H2O_MAN wrote:
Have you ever seen the movie "Tin Men"?

http://i.imdb.com/Icons/poster_under_licence.gif
Rent it...


The sales tactics you both ran into are deceptive at best.
These companies should be ashamed!

You can get better equipment for less money without the hassle.


So do you work for a water softener company? Is there another water softening system that is hassle free and cheaper other than Ecosystem? My brother has bought Rainsoft already and was wondering what trouble he might have with it (other than the salesman issues already discussed).

Thanks!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 01:50 pm
Re: no hassle water system
foco wrote:
So do you work for a water softener company?

Is there another water softening system that is hassle free and cheaper other than Ecosystem?

My brother has bought Rainsoft already and was wondering what trouble he might have with it (other than the salesman issues already discussed).

Thanks!


I don't currently work for any water softener company, I was part of the RainSoft organization over 7 years ago.
I am an independent that services all brands of water treatment equipment.

In my professional opinion ECOWATER offers the finest systems available to homeowners.
They are the most efficient users of salt and they are the least problematic of all brands I know of.
The ECOWATER dealer/customer service network is also excellent.

If you can post a picture of the RainSoft system your brother has I can tell you what to look out for.

HTH ~
0 Replies
 
foco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 01:20 pm
I will see if he can take a picture, thank you.
I was wondering what you mean specifically by Ecosystem having a better network?
Do all water softerners use the same science/technology? I am unclear on exactly the way that Rainsft works....crystals that trap positive ions? If so, what about chlorine and fluorine which are both negative ions? That is what I am concerned abot in particular...my water here in NC is not particularly hard. I was about to buy a RO system for my faucet just for drinking, but starting thinking about a "household" waster sytem when my brother went with Rainsoft. Why are there not RO system that work on the water supply for the whole house?
Thanks for your time,
Cordon
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 01:27 pm
Cordon,

Since you are mainly concerned about chemicals in your water and not the
hardness I suggest a whole house backwashing GAC (coconut shell) filter.
I also suggest a drinking water filter. Solid carbon block (Multi-Pure) or a quality RO.

HTH ~
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 11:08 am
foco wrote:
I will see if he can take a picture, thank you.
I was wondering what you mean specifically by Ecosystem having a better network?

He means dealer network, they are the only people that can get parts for Ecowater softeners so you become dependent on them for all service.

A better "network" is the independent internet or local dealers you find in your yellow pages. There are more dealers to chose from.

Quote:
Do all water softerners use the same science/technology? I am unclear on exactly the way that Rainsft works....crystals that trap positive ions?


Ion exchange is done by the resin in the softener. The resin sites are negatively charged and going to remove the positive charged ions in the water. Before the resin sites are full, the softener is regenerated with sodium chloride or potassium chloride brine containing positive charged ions that remove the calcium, magnesium, iron, manganese, lead, copper and such ions that were removed from the water, from the sites on the resin beads and it's all flushed down the drain.

Resin and tanks are basically the same. The most important/critical component is the control valve. They differ greatly and are the heart of a softener, so the quality of the control valve is the key to long service free operation of the softener, and getting soft water from the unit. I suggest the Clack WS-1 is the best control valve. It was designed/invented by three ex Fleck engineers with over 72 years experience at Fleck. Fleck is widely considered by many as having the best control valves. Most of those people have not looked at the Clack line of controls. Those engineers copied the Fleck one moving part in the water stream piston seals and spacers design and greatly improved it making it easier to repair with less expensive parts and requiring no special tools to repair it. All but the Fleck ProFlo requires one to three model specific special tools to reair them. The Clack line has the same warranty and out of over 800 sales to DIYers, I have had only 17 problems over 3.5 years now. So they have the same or better quality as the Fleck valves.

To learn how to correctly size a softener for your water quality and home's peak demand water use, visit the sizing chart page on my web site.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 01:44 pm
foco wrote:

I was wondering what you mean specifically by Ecosystem having a better network?


Gary Slusser wrote:
He means ...


Are you claiming to be a mind reader?
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 01:59 pm
Did I get it wrong? If so and since you didn't answer his question the first time, answer it now.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2007 02:19 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
Did I get it wrong?


You sure did.
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 05:12 pm
You're sounding more'n more like a high priced Ecowater dealer.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2007 07:15 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
You're sounding more'n more like a high priced Ecowater dealer.


I can't deny the fact that you like me, right now, you like me!
0 Replies
 
foco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 06:50 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
Cordon,

Since you are mainly concerned about chemicals in your water and not the
hardness I suggest a whole house backwashing GAC (coconut shell) filter.
I also suggest a drinking water filter. Solid carbon block (Multi-Pure) or a quality RO.

HTH ~


Yes, I guess I am mainly concerned with chemicals, mainly chlorides and fluorides. Can I install this filter myself and who is the best manufacturer?
If your water is not very hard, is there any real benefit to getting a water softener over a RO filter or GAC filter? Or, what does the water softener sytem remove that an RO filter doesn't? I am perplexed by that.

I seem to sense that there is some controversy over whether to go with a "network" or private internet/local dealer. The problem with doing it the DIY way is that I don't have the time or the failth in my abilities to install it myself or find a plumber locally who won't overquote me (I am a 27-year old woman). There is also the issue of financing: do local dealers or internet dealers finance (in the way that rainsoft does)? I cannot afford to pay outright. I would feel better knowing there was a network that I could rely on to fix any problem I was having. If that is what H2O man means by "better network" than that is better for someone like me, but maybe not better for someone's who is more knowledgeable in this area.

http://www.n-g-w.com/detail.php?id=&prod=1868

this is the site that I was going to order my RO filter from (National Garden Wholesale)...how does this differ from a GAC-filter?

Thanks for your time,
cordon
0 Replies
 
foco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 06:51 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
Cordon,

Since you are mainly concerned about chemicals in your water and not the
hardness I suggest a whole house backwashing GAC (coconut shell) filter.
I also suggest a drinking water filter. Solid carbon block (Multi-Pure) or a quality RO.

HTH ~


Yes, I guess I am mainly concerned with chemicals, mainly chlorides and fluorides. Can I install this filter myself and who is the best manufacturer?
If your water is not very hard, is there any real benefit to getting a water softener over a RO filter or GAC filter? Or, what does the water softener sytem remove that an RO filter doesn't? I am perplexed by that.

I seem to sense that there is some controversy over whether to go with a "network" or private internet/local dealer. The problem with doing it the DIY way is that I don't have the time or the failth in my abilities to install it myself or find a plumber locally who won't overquote me (I am a 27-year old woman). There is also the issue of financing: do local dealers or internet dealers finance (in the way that rainsoft does)? I cannot afford to pay outright. I would feel better knowing there was a network that I could rely on to fix any problem I was having. If that is what H2O man means by "better network" than that is better for someone like me, but maybe not better for someone's who is more knowledgeable in this area.

http://www.n-g-w.com/detail.php?id=&prod=1868

this is the site that I was going to order my RO filter from (National Garden Wholesale)...how does this differ from a GAC-filter?

Thanks for your time,
cordon
0 Replies
 
foco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 06:52 pm
GAC filter?
H2O_MAN wrote:
Cordon,

Since you are mainly concerned about chemicals in your water and not the
hardness I suggest a whole house backwashing GAC (coconut shell) filter.
I also suggest a drinking water filter. Solid carbon block (Multi-Pure) or a quality RO.

HTH ~


Yes, I guess I am mainly concerned with chemicals, mainly chlorides and fluorides. Can I install this filter myself and who is the best manufacturer?
If your water is not very hard, is there any real benefit to getting a water softener over a RO filter or GAC filter? Or, what does the water softener sytem remove that an RO filter doesn't? I am perplexed by that.

I seem to sense that there is some controversy over whether to go with a "network" or private internet/local dealer. The problem with doing it the DIY way is that I don't have the time or the failth in my abilities to install it myself or find a plumber locally who won't overquote me (I am a 27-year old woman). There is also the issue of financing: do local dealers or internet dealers finance (in the way that rainsoft does)? I cannot afford to pay outright. I would feel better knowing there was a network that I could rely on to fix any problem I was having. If that is what H2O man means by "better network" than that is better for someone like me, but maybe not better for someone's who is more knowledgeable in this area.

http://www.n-g-w.com/detail.php?id=&prod=1868

this is the site that I was going to order my RO filter from (National Garden Wholesale)...how does this differ from a GAC-filter?

Thanks for your time,
cordon
0 Replies
 
foco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 07:01 pm
To learn how to correctly size a softener for your water quality and home's peak demand water use, visit the sizing chart page on my web site.[/quote]

Thanks for the details on the way water softeners work...so is it correct that water softeners do NOT remove chlorides and fluorides then?

I wish that I felt comfortable figuring out the right softener for my townhome, but I don't. I read some of the directions on your site, but that kind of thing immobilizes me, however pathetic that may sound. I just don't trust myself to make a decision on such a large investment. i would need someone to advise me (at least over the phone if not in person). If a local dealer would finance and come to my home then I would love to deal privately, otherwise I need the "HMO."
Thanks,
Cordon
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 07:14 pm
PM sent ~
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 09:51 pm
If you finance thru a dealer, you will pay way more than if you got a loan yourself and bought whatever with cash from an independent dealer as opposed to a national brand type like Rainsoft, Ecowater and others that seriously overcharge for their equipment.

Chlorides and flouride.... chlorides do not harm you. Flouride can but if you are on city water with flouride added, it isn't enough to harm you unless you are injesting A LOT of water. A softener does not remove any amount of either.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 05:43 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
If you finance thru a dealer, you will pay way more than if you got a loan yourself and bought whatever with cash from an independent
dealer as opposed to a national brand type like Rainsoft, Ecowater and others that seriously overcharge for their equipment.


We all know that RainSoft equipment is rarely worth the price paid.
Some of the old stuff was pretty good for it's time.
IMHO, the new stuff is not so good.

ECOWATER systems and service are awesome.
The price you pay is negotiable.

Independent dealers can be just as bad and just as high priced as most any national brand.
Caveat emptor.
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 06:49 am
Cordon,

I can understand your hesitation concerning your choices on water systems.

The very first thing I would suggest is to get a thorough water analysis including hardness, chlorine, iron, TDS. Without knowing the problem, it is useless to try an suggest a solution. Does that make sense?

I also can understand how not everyone is a do-it-yourselfer and prefer a local professional to take the reins. With a local guy doing the work, you have access to problems and solutions at hand. As with all businesses, there are both competent and professionally qualified personnel out there as well as scoundrels and baffoons.

I am glad you used the word 'investment' because that is what a water treatment system should be considered. There are finance programs that may fit your needs and a abilities to pay. Some new credit cards offer one year, interest free rates.

In the end, you will want to make a sound decision as whatever you choose should be as trouble-free as possible and expect it to last for decades not just years. Sometimes going cheap can be very costly.

Get those tests done.
Andy Christensen, CWS
0 Replies
 
 

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