foco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 08:26 am
Gary Slusser wrote:
If you finance thru a dealer, you will pay way more than if you got a loan yourself and bought whatever with cash from an independent dealer as opposed to a national brand type like Rainsoft, Ecowater and others that seriously overcharge for their equipment.

Chlorides and flouride.... chlorides do not harm you. Flouride can but if you are on city water with flouride added, it isn't enough to harm you unless you are injesting A LOT of water. A softener does not remove any amount of either.


I do not agree on the safety of chlorides or fluorides, but that is not important to this thread really.

Good points about independently financing....
However, the DIY aspect is still unnerving and time consuming.
What about warranties with inependent/private dealers?
0 Replies
 
foco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 08:31 am
Andy CWS wrote:
Cordon,

I can understand your hesitation concerning your choices on water systems.

The very first thing I would suggest is to get a thorough water analysis including hardness, chlorine, iron, TDS. Without knowing the problem, it is useless to try an suggest a solution. Does that make sense?

I also can understand how not everyone is a do-it-yourselfer and prefer a local professional to take the reins. With a local guy doing the work, you have access to problems and solutions at hand. As with all businesses, there are both competent and professionally qualified personnel out there as well as scoundrels and baffoons.


Thanks. How do I test my own water?

The credit card idea is a good one, thanks.

I wish I could tell who was competent and who was not locally. Also, I will be moving across the nation in 2 years...the dealer I worked with here in NC wouldn't necessarily be around. How does the warranty thing work? It seems like with Rainsoft at least, that having the warranty didn't really matter anyway, most had to pay out of pocket and many things constantly went wrong.

thanks
I am glad you used the word 'investment' because that is what a water treatment system should be considered. There are finance programs that may fit your needs and a abilities to pay. Some new credit cards offer one year, interest free rates.

In the end, you will want to make a sound decision as whatever you choose should be as trouble-free as possible and expect it to last for decades not just years. Sometimes going cheap can be very costly.

Get those tests done.
Andy Christensen, CWS
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 10:12 am
foco wrote:
I do not agree on the safety of chlorides or fluorides, but that is not important to this thread really.

Good points about independently financing....
However, the DIY aspect is still unnerving and time consuming.
What about warranties with inependent/private dealers?


Chlorides and flouride is reduced by an RO system. You can buy a "whole house" RO, they are extreemly expensive and take up quite a bit of space but, you can't run RO water through metal plumbing without damaging the metal and adding it to the water. And you need a repressurizing pump to deliver the water to the fixtures.

You would have a tough time installing either a Point of Entry (POE) in a basement etc. or a Point of Use (POU) RO under the kitchen sink. You could buy the POU type at Sam's Club, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears and Wal-Mart etc. possibly or over the internet. All for under $200 and then hire a plumber to install it for maybe $200. A softener does not reduce/remove chlorides or fluoride.

I strongly suggest not financing the purchase by any means. This stuff is only considered an "investment" by salespeople wanting to sell it to you. All this water treatment stuff depreciates greatly and to $0 in just a couple years. THAT is not the definition of an "investment".
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 12:35 pm
Gary Slusser wrote:
This stuff is only considered an "investment" by salespeople wanting to sell it to you.
All this water treatment stuff depreciates greatly and to $0 in just a couple years.


That may be true for the cheap stuff you can purchase online or from a big
box store, but some of the nationally known brand names do retain value.
This is especially important if you must claim a loss on your homeowners policy.
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:31 pm
Points of contention: Mr. Slusser states that the it is only an investment by those trying to sell you. Well, "I" am not the one tryng to sell on these forums and yet, here I am, saying it is an investment.

So Mr. Slusser's pontification is without merit and actually, it sounds not only redundant and pointless, but maybe a little hypocritical since Mr. Slusser, himself, would be eager to gain you as a customer.

People with little knowledge of finances and property value can easily show they know little of what is determined to be an investment.

An investment is whereby property or another possession is acquired for future financial return or benefit. The fact that a softener will create a savings in plumbing repairs, water appliances and fixtures, greatly reducing soap costs, clothes lasting longer, reduction of skin lotions and creams, time spent on cleaning water damage-stains, etc., etc., etc., clearly reveals it as a great investment.

H2Oman implies that if you buy cheap, you are not getting your money's worth in the long run and he is right. Any system that values at $0.00 after a few years had a real head start the moment you bought it. And anyone who sells equipment and figures this to be true....uhmm!!! I would avoid such a businessman.

Financing is a viable and practical way to advance the quality of life through home improvement. Differed payments, same as cash, etc. are excellent ways to purchase item of value and quality.

Andy Christensen, CWS
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 04:54 pm
You guys are examples of the ones I was talking about. I can tell by the pitch of your whine.

Ecowater for $3500-$7900 and Kinetico from $2500 to $5000 plus a $1000 for the world's greatest RO. In a couple years they are only worth what someone will pay for them as used. Usually $0 to maybe $150-450 (if the seller can find "a sucker"). That also applies to the stuff I sell.

Anyone can look in their daily or weekly newspaper or Penny Shopper and check me out.

Andy, you sound like the check out clerk at the supermarket telling me how much money I saved after paying her $200 +/- bucks for their groceries.

The truth is that water treatment equipment, softeners, filters, UV lights, acid neutralizing on'n on is a preventive maintenance expense, no matter how hard sell and silvery tongued you guys are while twisting arms to sell it, it is NOT an investment.

Along that line, how about proof reading your stuff before clicking submit.

An investment grows in value faster than inflation and taxes eats away its value/worth.

COST = purchase price plus maintenance expenses - sale value if any.

IF what you sell the thing for doesn't bring more than its COST, it wasn't even a BAD investment; it is an expense.

Both Ecowater and Kinetico softeners/filters are made of the same materials as I and all other dealers sell; plastic tanks (Kinetico uses the same as I do), Ecowater uses non-standard tanks made in Canada, but they are plastic. Resin, I sell Purolite and Sybron Chemicals and that's the same as Kinetico and Ecowater use.

So where is the justification for your UNGODLY HIGH prices guys? What do your customers get for paying 2-X times more than their other local dealers charge?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 05:27 pm
Rolling Eyes Maybe you could sell us on just how good your product is instead of badmouthing your competition.

Know this: The more you badmouth your competition the less respect others have for both you and your product ...
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 May, 2007 09:43 am
My market is the DIYer and they and 99% of all other people do not want to pay premium prices or be overcharged thousands of dollars to soften their hard water.

My pointing out the competition's HIGH PRICES etc. is not "badmouting the competition", it is simply stating facts and it has nothing to do with the equipment quality or its lack of quality.

But since you asked... The Clack WS-1 has soft water brine refill. That keeps the salt tank clean. It has variable reserve, meaning the computer calculates the reserve based on actual daily water use. No more dealer calculated 24 hour or 20-30 percent fixed reserve. It has calendar override of the metering. That extends the life of resin and reduces leakage.

But the best feature is that it can be totally rebuilt in less than 30 minutes by anyone with the desire and a pair of pliers.

That is actually replacing the 5-6 seals and 4-5 spacers (as one piece) and the brine and main pistons (as one piece), the circuit board, the motor and the meter turbine. In other words, all the five parts except for the valve body.

It has the lowest priced parts on the market.

It, the computer, maintains extensive databases. History, programming, troubleshooting and variable reserve databases including the number of regenerations it has done since day one, how long since the last regeneration, the maximum gpm ever run through it etc. etc. etc.. It uses 12 vdc power with a 15' long power cord the size of a computer mouse, a touch pad display screen with only three buttons used for programming; Next, Up and Down. There are also Time of Day and Regen buttons.

And it iuses an exact copy of the Fleck piston, seals and spacers design with HUGE improvements in materials and operation. No wires other than the power, motor and turbine meter cables. No contact switches, no cams, no popit valves, discs etc..
0 Replies
 
bee7le
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2007 12:52 pm
Andy CWS wrote:
Points of contention: Mr. Slusser states that the it is only an investment by those trying to sell you. Well, "I" am not the one tryng to sell on these forums and yet, here I am, saying it is an investment.

Lol...keep saying it...it may come true. Do your other "investments" depreciate at break-neck speeds? I found a "barely used" 8 month old Rain Soft for $1200 OBO on Craig's list. The guy paid $5K for it. That's losing value faster than your leased Tahoe "investment" Wink

The Rainsoft salesman visited my house last night (until I was forced to kick him out)... hence the reason I'm here. I know I want to do something about my water problem, but I pay cash for my expenses and sleep on any financial decisions to avoid buyer's remorse.

I can justify spending $2K to fix my water for now, any suggestions? Can I do this in steps? What would you do?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2007 01:24 pm
bee7le wrote:


I can justify spending $2K to fix my water for now, any suggestions?
Can I do this in steps? What would you do?


What's wrong with your H2O that needs fixin?
0 Replies
 
bee7le
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2007 03:33 pm
I'm not exactly sure how to answer your question, but I'll try...

For one, I live in Atlanta. My water was rated at an 8 grain hardness level (I'm new to this stuff). The salesman showed us a lot of flashy tests, but I just want a better quality water than what we have. I was shocked by the difference in the taste and the feel on my skin after washing my hands with Ivory. He also got a stain out of our carpet with just water - that was impressive.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2007 03:52 pm
PM sent ~

BTW, what did the RainSoft rep quote you?
0 Replies
 
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2007 07:12 am
If you buy over the internet, you can save half that 2K and get equal or better quality.
0 Replies
 
bee7le
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2007 07:36 am
The Rainsoft Rep quoted me on their "Gold" package (the full home softener and the under-the-sink filter) for $5999, then he dropped it down to $4999, and finally he stuck with $3400. It was obvious by his desperation that the competition is fierce - although he was adamant that RainSoft was the only company that offered such products.

He mentioned quick-connect valves, making it possible to take the system with you when you move. Is this standard? Is it feesible to move these systems?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2007 07:49 am
He dropped from $5999 to $3400 during his short visit - WoW! You did yourself a favor by showing this guy the door.
The Gold series valve RainSoft sells is nothing more than a bastardized metered digital Fleck 5600 valve.

Yes, you can install any system to make it easy to move the system if you wish.

Did you get my PM?
Gary Slusser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2007 10:10 am
H2O_MAN wrote:
He dropped from $5999 to $3400 during his short visit - WoW! You did yourself a favor by showing this guy the door.

But recently here in respect to Ecowater's high prices ($3900 was it?), you said that the price is negotiable.... So why aren't you congratulating bee7le's negotiation skills!

H2O_MAN wrote:
Yes, you can install any system to make it easy to move the system if you wish.

I don't think it is a good idea to move equipment. It is difficult to not cause it problems during the move.

Also, it may not be right for the water quality and peak demand of the new house.

If selling a house, it's best to include the equipment with the house, it adds value and will help to sell the house quicker than the same house without needed water treatment equipment. Plus it saves the new owners from having to buy it themselves so it is added convenience to buy 'your' house over those without water treatment equipment.
0 Replies
 
charsuch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2007 12:06 pm
Rainsoft
I was approached in Home Depot and offered a $20 gift card if Merequest Marketing could send a Rain Soft representative to my home to do a 15 minute water test. Well, we just moved into a new home and have been making frequent trips to home depot. So, a $20 Home Depot card sounded good.

Well, the rep was scheduled to be at my house from 7:00 to 7:15. He was actually late. He arrived at 7:30 and stayed until 11:00 PM! My husband and i thought it was really interesting even though he made several mistakes in his presentation. He seemd to be a nice guy. Well he talked alot about how it was a 4 week free trial and no questions asked return policy. Somehow he managed to get us to sign a 3 day contract. I did not even look at the papers until 3 weeks later! there was a stack of coupons and other information to go through! I think that is part of the sales scheme tactic! 1- Come late 2- Give them tons of paperwork 3- Find new home owners at The Home Depot.

Well, I have been calling home depot and I filed a report with Atlanta's Better Business Bureau. I am not happy with the $6,000 unit. It has not changed a thing in my house hold. If there is anyone out there who is thinking about this think again and do research.

Merequest Marketing is has a smart scheme going on and I would hate for any one else to fall prey!

I have a meeting at The Home Depot with the managers and Rainsoft in Cartersville, Georgia on 8-13-07 @6:00 PM. If there is anybody out there that reads this and has had the same problem please join us!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2007 12:17 pm
Re: Rainsoft
charsuch wrote:


Merequest Marketing is has a smart scheme going on and I would hate for any one else to fall prey!

I have a meeting at The Home Depot with the managers and Rainsoft in Cartersville, Georgia on 8-13-07 @6:00 PM. If there is anybody out there that reads this and has had the same problem please join us!


I would love to be a fly on the wall at this meeting Exclamation

Can you tape the meeting?
0 Replies
 
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2007 01:58 pm
I seem to remember someone saying that a softener cannot be considered an investment. I would disagree with that notion.

The value of a quality water system saves directly and indirectly and, over a given period of time may even pay for itself. After that, it is money in the pocket.

There are other advantages in having quality over economy.
Andy Christensen, CWS
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2007 02:26 pm
Andy CWS wrote:
I seem to remember someone saying that a softener cannot be considered an investment. I would disagree with that notion.

The value of a quality water system saves directly and indirectly and, over a given period of time may even pay for itself. After that, it is money in the pocket.

There are other advantages in having quality over economy.
Andy Christensen, CWS


+1 Cool
0 Replies
 
 

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