lazyh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 10:03 pm
@H2O MAN,
Yes, mine is digital and I use blocks instead of bagged salt which for me living in rural america is easier to get and handle.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 07:00 am
@lazyh,


Be extra happy that you have that combination.
The digital controls are much more reliable than the
mechanical and pure block salt is much more efficient.
Gary Slusser
 
  0  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 11:37 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:
.... pure block salt is much more efficient.

How does the shape of the salt used make it more efficient; or in other words cause a softener to use less of it?
lazyh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 10:18 pm
@Gary Slusser,
After over twenty of owning water softeners and four different brands. This is the first one that uses blocks and it is the first one that does not eventually leave sludge and nasties in the bottom of the salt tank. As for the lower salt consumption, I think that comes from improved technology not necessarily the form of salt. For the record I live on a farm with my own well and the water is so hard that without a softener it will actually dissolve the faucets on my sinks and tub within six months not to mention the buildup.
Gary Slusser
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 02:09 pm
@lazyh,
Sludge is usually caused by pellet type salt. Dirt in a brine tank is not the problem people think it is but yes, some salt is 'dirtier' than others.

All softeners can use any type of salt (sodium chloride) and/or salt substitute potassium chloride. Depending on the salt efficiency setting, you may have to increase the salt dose by up to 27% to use potassium chloride. It also may cost 4 times more for the same size bag of sodium chloride.

Salt consumption is based on the programming of the control valve or height setting of a float in the brine tank. Either way it is set to the actual number of lbs of salt to be used per regeneration by controlling the amount of water added to the brine tank during brine refill to dissolve 3 lbs per gallon; it's actually temperature dependent but 2.7 lbs per gallon.

This is based on 21 years of study, selling and servicing all the different types of softeners. All softeners have an adjustable salt dose in lbs and thereby an adjustable K of capacity.

The salt dose lbs used is dictated by the cuft volume and type of resin in the softener. The volume of resin dictates the size of the resin tank. The size of the resin tank dictates the control valve that can be used to service that size tank.

Here's how it works, two identical softeners, lets say 1.0 cuft (30k max) of regular mesh resin. One is set at 15 lbs and that regenerates 30K, the other is set at 6 lbs and gets 20K. The one using 6 lbs has a salt efficiency of 3333 grains/lb. The one at 15 lbs and 30 K gets 2000 grains/lb. You do that just like figuring gas mileage.

That applies to every softener in the world, regardless of the brand of the resin, brand of control valve or the brand name on the softener.

The number of regenerations can be important for both water and salt efficiency. Example, Kinetico says one of their softeners uses only 2.2 lbs per regeneration and gets like 5000 grains/lb. and uses only 11 gals of water per regeneration. They always stop there.

What they don't tell you is that it may have to regenerate 1-3 times per day while they compare 2.2 lbs to a softener using 6 lbs etc. per regeneration BUT... they get you to forget that it only regenerates on average once every 7-8 days. Which one uses the least salt per week month or year? Also, if they are using only 11 gals/regeneration, and the other softener uses 35-40 gals/regeneration, which one uses the most water on the same week month or annual basis?

Hard water, actually the scale it causes, can not dissolve anything and actually coats metals protecting them from corrosive water.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 06:39 pm
The block exposes less of it's extremely hard surface area to be dissolved.
The only system that benefits from pellet salt is the ECOwater softener.
ECOwater uses a flash brine mode that leaves the pellets dry until needed.
0 Replies
 
wetmorem
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 05:17 pm
We are 25 year customers of RainSoft and are now on our 3rd system, this time digital. I am taking the time to write that we actually had a positive experience with 3 different offices: Indiana Corporate, Orlando Discovery Marketing, and the Melbourne, FL service office. After Tropical Storm Faye, during which we were gone, we returned to the Carbon Tank stuck in bypass mode and a water bill of nearly $500 dollars. I wrote a letter to Corporate ,cc to Melbourne office, expressing our concerns that the little plastic dial has frequently failed and asked them to share what their management and designers were doing about this design problem. I made no demands. All the offices contacted me. We were asked to consider an upgrade to digital systems for water softening, and CHL removal. They gave us an extremely fair price, payed for the water bill, and gave us a more reasonable service fee in the future. I have waited over 2 months to make sure the systems are working well and they are. We are very pleased with RainSoft. Keep in mind, I never complained or asked for anything, just said we were loyal customers and expressed a concern that this one failing part could cause many customers problems. A positive approach really worked for us. Everyone involved were polite a d professional. MLW from Merritt Island,FL
0 Replies
 
gsolo19564
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jan, 2009 08:39 pm
Ok, Am I an idiot or what?(You can answer after the post)

I had a rainsoft salesman over today and boy did it all look good, then.
We purchased the system for $7870 at $199 a mo for 5yrs. I know right? We didn't think about it til after he left but that comes to $11940!!!!
For this amazing price we get an EC4, PL2 and an Air Master Ultra. Also included were all the soaps and an Americana Shopper package.

Luckily it is Saturday and they aren't coming until Monday. I have a day and a half to get this all straight before it is installed.
What should the price of this be?
I'm not a DIYer so what/who else can I look at for the same results?
Guess that's it for now, now you can answer the original question.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2009 03:51 pm
@gsolo19564,
Cancel your order now!
Use the phone, fax, email and USPS to cancel - use all of them!

Once you are sure that the deal is canceled and you are under no obligation to buy
their overpriced sub-standard system, post your H2O test results and concerns.
We will help you determine the most cost effective way to get the job done.

Do not let these people onto your property or back into your home!
gsolo19564
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2009 04:18 pm
@H2O MAN,
Well, they showed us all the tests and showed us how dirty are water was. There was quite a bit of sediment in it and took 15 drops to change it color or whatever to show us the hardness.
We currently don't drink our tap water b/c it tastes bad. We have a water dispenser and fill up the 5 gallon jugs to drink out of.
What would be a reasonable price to pay for all of that?
What is the soap package and coupon book really worth?
I wrote down a few questions and called the manager today and talked to him. Unlike some other comments made on here, he was very nice and cordial. I never said I wanted to cancel but told him my wife and i were rediscussing it. He was polite and answered all my questions. Told me to call him back if I needed anything else.
He also told me to call him back about 9 in the morning to see what he could do with the numbers to make it more affordable. That's why I was asking what a reasonable price for the whole set up is?
Thanks.
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2009 05:46 pm
@gsolo19564,
Wait a minute, now. You talk to him on a Sunday! Wow, great! And he offered you a possible discount over the phone. Again, great!

What is the PL2? The Rainsoft softener really offers no unique or super technology; it is quite basic. There are many happy customers, I am sure. But there are those that are not.

Was the air purifier thrown into demo or did you request it?

Check:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/
http://www.complaints.com/
and just type in a company name to see where some problems are.

The soap package and coupons are closing techniques and only offer the value you believe it is. What are the coupons for? Are they cash gift certificates that Rainsoft had to shell out for or just printed up something?

Just be confident about your decision and do your homework.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
gsolo19564
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2009 08:12 pm
@Andy CWS,
Sorry it is a P-12. I think it's the thing under the sink for RO or whatever. Anyway, the salesman didn't have a cellphone so he borrowed mine to call his boss when he was here on Saturday. I just hit redial and he picked up. Actually talked to him twice today.
As previously stated I haven't had the exact complaints as everybody else. Up to this point the customer service has been good. I know that can change but so far ok. Except for the biased on here against rainsoft, it actually sounds like a good system. Most of the complaints I have heard are from the original sale of it. Most comments I've read about people who have it are that they like it.
My biggest concern is the price. That's why I had asked about a reasonable price for this system. If I can get it for close to that I will go ahead with it.
I went to Lowe's today and they could basically get me into a system for about $3000. I think that was all whirlpool stuff. Not sure how that compares. And that was less the air filter and other gimmicks.
When I called the manager back today he told me the EC4 was not a softener it was a treatment. Can someone tell me what the difference is?
The Air Purifier was thrown in. I did not request it, I was told it was part of the package.
The coupons are a free membership into Americana Shopper III. Haven't been able to find alot of info on that yet. I still have about 20hrs before I have to cancel so any other info I can get from anybody would be very helpful.
H2O MAN
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2009 07:06 am
@gsolo19564,
The soap package and American Shopper are closing tools... totally worthless to the consumer.

The P-12 is made for RainSoft by Multi-Pure... you can buy the real thing and maintain it for much less than RainSoft.

The BrainSoft Air filter is a cheap POS... you can do much better for less.

The salesman and sales manager are trained to run you in circles and baffle you with Bull ****.
Cancel the contract before it's to late.


Look at Northstar or ECOwater.

Walt Flannagan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 03:17 pm
@H2O MAN,
"BrainSoft" - LOL. That's funny. I've seen a lot of rips on RS but never one so witty. I'm gonna steal that if you don't mind Wink

When it comes to "Rainsoft" as a whole, I wouldn't "throw the baby out with the bath water" - so the saying goes. Don't forget that they are a franchise with 100s of independent dealers. Not all of them charge as much a $6, 7 and$8k (too much) - I think it's entirely up to the dealer what they want to sell it for. The one in my area is entirely reasonable, but your milage vary by area of course.

If you want some info about why you might want to get water purification in the 1st place, www.NationalWaterCouncil.org is a pretty good site for info.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 05:12 pm
@Walt Flannagan,
Walt Flannagan wrote:

"BrainSoft" - LOL. That's funny. I've seen a lot of rips on RS but never one so witty. I'm gonna steal that if you don't mind Wink


You are welcome to use the H2O MAN original "BrainSoft" with my blessings Cool

Once John Grayson stepped down, the quality of the systems RS peddled
and the QC from the factory began to slip and it continues to slip today.

Keep this fact in mind... RS manufactures no water treatment equipment.
RS is an assembler of parts that are made for them by other companies.
Joethewaterguy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 07:05 pm
@H2O MAN,
all the major manufacturers use and assemble parts that are made by other companies..
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 07:31 pm
@Joethewaterguy,
Nope.

Do your homework and you will see that there is one major
company that manufactures 98% of it's parts in house.

I look forward to your findings.
0 Replies
 
USDHILLON
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 08:13 am
We also had RainSoft person's visit and it took well over two hrs. We were not informed that this will be this long. They force sale. But we did not buy anything. We were quoted about 6500/- and above. We are glad we did not buy it. Now searching them on the Internet, it looks it is just a scam. A Scare tactics and also that some of the people who are writing here are also from other companies... who want to sell eco systems or so.... What a wonderful thing Internet is! we can get info on anything....
Andy CWS
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 09:01 am
@USDHILLON,
The secret of a good sales rep is the they don't have to sell. Explain everything thoroughly but honestly and the equipment/service/reputation should sell itself. When gimicks and the old 'for-you-today-only-my-friend' specials are thrown at you then you know he was hoping you wouldn't object...but just in case you do...

I was wondering, through the whole demonstation did he go into details on the actual equipment and what set it apart from all others? I try to understand Rainsoft equipment and have a hard time figuring out what unique features abd associated benefits they offer. "Lifetime warranty" always sends up redflags for me.

Andy
Gary Slusser
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 11:00 am
@Andy CWS,
Andy, taking to heart what you've said as Kinetico salesman, what are some of the disadvantages of the nonelectric Kinetico alternating twin tank model softener?

And do you honestly explain them to your prospective customers?
0 Replies
 
 

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