'another Letter from Jesus Christ'

Then perhaps you could provide us with who plagerized the words and from where and who the words were referring to.

stevewonder,

I didn't see where you said it had to be the words of John. Did I miss something?

If you want to understand what Jesus is saying here look at the context,


Which begins at verse 24............

"24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their
hand, "



You can see clearly Jesus's refutation, the scribes had come to him and started stoning him. He says why you stoning me I have done so much good. They say we not stoning you for good works but because you are claiming to be a son of God.

Now if Jesus was claiming to be literally the son of God he would have said its not blasphemey because that is who I am !!

Yet he doesnt say that, he reffers them to the Psalms, were they have been described as Ye gods,

The next point he also makes you cannot contradict scripture!!!

'If he called them gods'

meaning if you can be called gods and its not taken as anything but metophorical than why do you accuse me???

What's your point? Jesus and the Father are one. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

No thats not my point he refuted claiming godhood here because his refutation of the argument by the scribes is not affirmative but that they too are described as Ye gods.
Therefore his claim IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THEIRS!
HE IS A SON OF G.D LIKE THEY ARE, IS HIS ARGUEMENT.
If you dont understand now you may never.

Stevewonder,

So what are you saying? That's He is not the true Son of God?

Psalm 82:
6  I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7  But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8  Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.


You are taking this a bit out of context in trying to attribute Jesus as saying they were gods as he is.

MA,
He is saying that jesus said we are ALL sons of god, and he is just one of us.

Yep, but that is NOT what he was saying

Most definitely that is NOT what He was saying at all.

I have never really looked ... are there any other historical writings of the time OTHER than the bible? If so, what do those writings have to say about Jesus Christ??

Anon

Tacitus, Josephus and others wrote about Jesus.

He also showed up in writings by one of the Caesars.

Q: "Are there any historical writings, other than the Bible, that prove that Jesus ever really lived?"

our A: Yes. Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120) was considered the greatest historian of ancient Rome. He wrote of Nero who "punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus [Christ], the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originiated, but through the city of Rome also."1

Also, Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian, (A.D. 38-100+) wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities, saying that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, that Jesus was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected.2

The existence of Jesus Christ is recorded not only by Josephus and Tacitus, but also by ancient writers such as Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian. And from the Jewish Talmud, "we learn that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, gathered disciples, made blasphemous claims about himself, and worked miracles, but these miracles are attributed to sorcery and not to God."3

Thus, historians both favorable and unfavorable regarding Jesus did write about him. Also there were many historical writings about the early Christians.

_____________________

It was Pliny the Younger I was thinking of.

thanks Dok!! I though I was going insane talking to myself.

Seeimng they see not! etc, etc,

Yes Momma Jesus refutes their charge by saying it says in scriptures Ye are gods and therefore they cannot use that argument on him.

I have already in prevous discussion given you evidence from bible that God has many sons such as David....so yes for the 4th time Jesus is not the only son of G.d according to bible!!

sheesh!!

Steve,

He is the only begotten son of God. He is the only begotten son of God. Try saying that 100 times.

sheesh!

Jeremiah 31:9

"I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."

Psalm 2:7

"....G.d had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

Exodus 4:22

"Thus saith G.d, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."
Genesis


Genesis 6: 1-2

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."



so yet again i have to post this evidence up again!!

Jesus is not the only son or begotten!!!

How do know? the bible tells me so!!

:wink:

John 3:16 ~ For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Ok so you saying that G.d is lying??
please explain the verses I have quoted.
You dont expect us to believe what your saying and ignore scripture are you??
If you cant explain the verses or admit they are contradictions then this discussion has reached a dead end and you must admit you dont have an answer.

steve,

We have already been through this very same thing.

ma ! You still puzzle me with your answers.
Why is the bible metophorical in all the verses except for jesus??

truth be known you dont have an answer you just want us to accept what your saying, without question.


By the way if Jesus was begotten then G.d required someone to begget him with.

if he is the son of G.d there must have been a time when he didnt exist, since a son comes from his parents right?

And how is he is co-equal to G.d when there should have been a time when he didnt exist?

He cant be G.ds co-equal because he worshipped G.d

Why would G.d do that? Pray to himself?
Its like a Doctor going to his own hospital and asking the nurse to be treated by himself...now thats plain crazy.

If man cant take sin only G.d can why did many become man to take sin??

Where did the sin go?


And if you have an american man in a room with his son how many men in the room?

TWO RIGHT?

If you have G.d in his place and His son also a G.d.. then how many G.ds

TWO RIGHT?