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America... Spying on Americans

 
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 12:51 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Because people are idiots squinney. Especially the young men and women who go to those rallies and get all hyped up on the anti-whatever garbage that is being spewed. Where do you think the suicide bombers in the middle east come from? Do you believe Americans are somehow not capable of equal atrocoties?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 12:57 pm
Not sure it's worth censoring.

No one here has been directly attacked. A point was being made, turning it to reflect the other side of what McG said.

You may find saying things (as above) about our soldiers offensive. (as do I) But, some of us find it offensive to have anti-war rally attendees lumped in with terrorists.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 01:16 pm
Thanks.
Explication:

Because people are idiots squinney. Especially the young men and women who go to those rallies and get all hyped up on the anti-whatever garbage that is being spewed. Where do you think the suicide bombers in the middle east come from? Do you believe Americans are somehow not capable of equal atrocoties?

____________________

People are idiots. I think we can all agree that some are-and this is true. Naturally, we disagree on which ones are idiots, but ...

Then, he uses a compound sentence with two equally important clauses joined by "and."

These are the qualifications to meet stupidity of [e]special[ly] level according to McG:

Especially the young men and women who go to those rallies and get all hyped up on the anti-whatever garbage that is being spewed.

The getting all hyped up on whatever garbage--denotes reacting to emotion rather than logic. So--McG'd be right. That is precisely what happens in the recruitment of terrorists.

Had she said they are all terrorists--well then.... different story.

Sorry for brief closure. Thanks to mods for quick re-opening.
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 01:26 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Stevepax wrote:
I think it was out of line to insult everyone that protests and voices dissent.


Well, to be fair, calling all soldiers stupid wasn't much better.


That's pretty much MY point. I think they were equivalent remarks. Stupid, ignorant, foolish remarks.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 01:31 pm
squinney wrote:
No one here has been directly attacked.


Are you serious? The offending post is no longer there. Perhaps you missed it?
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 01:50 pm
Ralph,

I DO apologize to you! We walk a lot of common ground! I just couldn't let McG shoot off his mouth like that.

My respects to you!
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:11 pm
Meanwhile, Bush must know he's in deep doo-doo.

Interesting...

Quote:
Bush Defends U.S. Wiretaps, Urges Patriot Act Renewal (Update2)

Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. President George W. Bush defended his authorization of spying on American citizens and foreign nationals after the Sept. 11 attacks and urged Congress to renew the anti-terrorism USA Patriot Act.

``The American people expect me to do everything in my power under our laws and Constitution to protect them,'' Bush said today in his weekly radio address. ``That is exactly what I will continue to do.''

Bush said he authorized the National Security Agency soon after Sept. 11 to eavesdrop without court-approved warrants when the government had evidence of links to terrorist organizations. Thousands of people may have had their international phone calls and e-mails monitored, the New York Times reported yesterday.

Bush said U.S. authorities need a variety of ways to keep terrorists from attacking Americans and called the wiretaps a ``vital tool.'' He said he has reauthorized the program, which requires a review every 45 days, more than 30 times.

Democrats railed against the secret wiretaps, calling them unlawful. In a response to Bush's radio address, Wisconsin Democratic Senator Russ Feingold said the president is trying to circumvent protections for innocent Americans.

`Not a King'

``We have a president, not a king, and that's the way he's talking,'' Feingold said in an interview with CNN. ``What he's doing, I believe, is illegal. And it's really quite a shocking moment in the history of our country.''

Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter yesterday said he planned to investigate use of the wiretaps after the New York Times reported on them. Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican, said such a practice would be ``clearly and categorically wrong.''

Bush said the spying program has been reviewed by the Justice Department and top leaders in Congress have been briefed about it repeatedly. He said he had the authority to clear the program, and its existence was improperly revealed to the media.

``Revealing classified information is illegal, alerts our enemies and endangers our country,'' Bush said. ``The activities conducted under this authorization have helped detect and prevent possible terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad.''

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, declined to comment on the wiretaps specifically. ``I have been kept abreast of programs that it is appropriate for the majority leader to be briefed on,'' he said.

Patriot Act

The president also took Congress to task for allowing parts of the Patriot Act to come close to expiring. The Senate yesterday failed to clear the way for renewal of the Patriot Act, falling seven votes short of a total needed to cut off debate.

The law, enacted soon after the Sept. 11 attacks, expands the powers of investigative agencies trying to root out terrorists. Parts of it will expire in two weeks.

``The terrorist threat to our country will not expire in two weeks,'' Bush said. The Senate's failure to vote on the legislation is ``irresponsible and it endangers the lives of our citizens,'' he said. ``In the war on terror, we cannot afford to be without this law for a single moment.''

Feingold and Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, said the president isn't willing to compromise on the legislation. Leahy, one of the original sponsors of the Patriot Act, favors a short extension for the program while negotiations continue.

Critics of the Patriot Act say it infringes on Americans' civil rights too drastically by giving U.S. authorities wide latitude to collect information and investigation. Leahy and other Democrats say they want to add protections for Americans to the legislation.

`Above the Law'

``Our government must follow the laws and respect the Constitution while it protects Americans' security and liberty,'' Leahy said in a statement. ``The Bush administration seems to believe it is above the law. It is not.''

Bush gave today's radio address live from the Roosevelt Room at the White House. He also plans to give a nationally televised address Dec. 18 at 9 p.m. Washington time from the Oval Office to discuss the just-completed elections in Iraq, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said yesterday. The last time Bush made an Oval Office speech was when military action in Iraq began in March 2003.
``He wants to give the American people the sense of the way forward in 2006, talk about the importance of the mission,'' McClellan said today.


Me thinks someone is feeling like they have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:12 pm
Seems, I missed a lot of fun.

(Actually, I protested against wars before and during my time as [and the ten years in the mergency reserve forces]. But as said, I live in a different contry - brainwashing stopped here thanks to the UK, USA et. al. 60 years ago. [And in the other part of my home country 15 years ago.])
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:17 pm
Stevepax wrote:
Ralph,

I DO apologize to you! We walk a lot of common ground! I just couldn't let McG shoot off his mouth like that.

My respects to you!


Shoot my mouth off how?

Lash did a fine job using her reading comprehension skills in dissecting my post. Perhaps you missed the message.

People are idiots.

People who go to anti-war rallies are not idiots.

People who go to anti-war rallies, become engrossed in doing more than protesting and carry out illegal activities are idiots. I.E. suicide bombers. They are brain washed youths engrossed in their cause and committing atrocities.

American youths are no less immune to those that prey on the middle eastern youth in the same way.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:21 pm
Might well be, McG, that you are correct.

Perhaps you've joined and followed more anti-war demonstartions than I have and are really justified to conclude above.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:24 pm
Okay, so over the course of say the last40 years, how many American youths have attended anti-war rallies and then gone and blown things up or performed other acts of terrorism?


How many anti-war protestors, following a rally, have blown up Planned Parenthoods, shot doctor's that perform abortions, blown up federal buildings, mailed bombs, become suicide bombers, etc?
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:31 pm
Lash. Excuse me while I change your statement a little.



Lash wrote:
Thanks.
Explication:

Because people are idiots squinney. Especially the young men and women who go to those rallies and get all hyped up on the anti-whatever garbage that is being spewed. Where do you think the suicide bombers in the middle east come from? Do you believe Americans are somehow not capable of equal atrocoties?

____________________

People are idiots. I think we can all agree that some are-and this is true. Naturally, we disagree on which ones are idiots, but ...

Then, he uses a compound sentence with two equally important clauses joined by "and."

These are the qualifications to meet stupidity of [e]special[ly] level according to McG:

Especially the young men and women who go to miltary recruitment offices and get all hyped up on the patriotic garbage that is being spewed.

The getting all hyped up on whatever garbage--denotes reacting to emotion rather than logic. So--McG'd be right. That is precisely what happens in the recruitment of the military.

Had she said they are all soldiers --well then.... different story.

Sorry for brief closure. Thanks to mods for quick re-opening.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:31 pm
squinney wrote:
Meanwhile, Bush must know he's in deep doo-doo.

Interesting...


Obviously you missed the date, when the US changed from a republic to an absolutistic monarchy Laughing
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:34 pm
Drats! And, I have this lovely little red dress I've been saving for just such a special occasion, Walter.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:39 pm
Equating US troops with terrorists is something you can do all by yourself.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:41 pm
Lash wrote:
Equating US troops with terrorists is something you can do all by yourself.
Question
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:42 pm
Not directed toward you, Walter.
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 03:15 pm
Lash wrote:
Equating US troops with terrorists is something you can do all by yourself.


The point is more about how the recruiting is conducted. Endless horseshit, lies, emotion, pride, patriotism ... it's the same with both terrorists and our military!

I also think that if you ask a lot of arabs, they may feel our troops are exactly that ... terrorists, but that wasn't my point.

Our CIA is definitely founded upon terrorism. There are more than adequate examples of that! In fact, that is a lot of our problem. We created the terrorist AlQueda, only we called them freedom fighters at the time because they were using our tactics that we taught them on the Russians. We however don't care for it much when they turn around and use it on us!
0 Replies
 
ralpheb
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 03:26 pm
Ladies and gentlemen, I know that politics is one of the mosted heatedly??? debated issues. And, at times, I do agree with some of you.
But, please do understand that there are areas that I feel should be avoided.
Am I a patriot? That all depends on what your views of a patriot are.
Do I believe in the Constitution? Most assuredly.
Do I believe in everything that happens in our counttry? Definetly not.
But, I and so many of my military brothers and sisters do believe that it is our mission in life to secure not only our freedoms, but to help other people achieve the same freedoms that we do enjoy here.
Some of you have ranted and raved to extremes. That is the beauty of our country.
I have an inner conflict in me. I do not believe in censorship, but at the same time I don't believe that everything that's thought should be spoken or written.
I believe that everyone should be free to express their displeasure at things the government does. I do not believe that just because we disagree with the government that we should over through it.
As much as I disagree with a lot of the postings I have seen on a2k, I do enjoy seeing the difference of views.
I do and always will take offense at an attack on my military and my military brothers and sisters. It is those of us who sacrifice so much. We ask no special favors. We do nothing for glory. We do everything for our families and for our fellow country men. It is not a calling that everyone can follow. It is not a calling that I expect everyone to understand. It is a calling for those who are truely selfless in their missions.
I hope all of you can understand.
I only ask that when you see someone in uniform and they are walking with their family, you take the time to thank not the soldier, but his or her family. They make for more sacrifices then the military member.
0 Replies
 
roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 03:39 pm
OK, I need to catch up here, just woke up. But I understand that Bush is calling it a "Secret classified program" that gave him the authority to authorize domestic spying. So who controls these classified programs that even the congress doesn't know about? Sounds to me that any president can do anything they want and call it a classified program. There's no way that can be legal. And that's not the country I was bourn in.

Boy, this president is surrounded by leakers. Seems like there are people close to him that want to see him go down.
0 Replies
 
 

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