Will the execution of Crips founder be a mistake?

People who argue that the death penalty is wrong in all cases because innocent people fall through the cracks are ignoring the fact that DNA and modern forensics have actually redeemed a lot of prisoners whom were wrongly convicted.

People who argue that a murderer can be rehabilitated are ignoring the fact that the person that was killed is unable to forgive their killer because they were cheated out of their lives, so rehabilitation is irrelevant in cases of murder.

Yes there is corruption in the prison system. We have a lot of criminals them selves running the prison system. Executioners who enjoy killing, Maybe what we need to look at is reforming the prison system. There's obviously something wrong when we have the worlds largest prison population and still have some of the highest crime rates.

A wrongly convicted person is usually a victim of maufactured or covered up evidence. DNA is not always applicable. It had nothing to do with Tookie's case, for instance.

I'm probably the only liberal here who is pro death penalty... I realise there is probably corruption involved here, and I've said that they should cancel his execution just because of the public safety aspect. But then again, I look at what he did before he changed his life. He founded the Crips. Murder aside, Think about all of the people whom have died because of that one choice in his life? Maybe he knows that he made a mistake and was responsible for starting the ball rolling. But he did make the mistake, so he's no Angel! He deserves to die, but he shouldn't die for the sake of public safety.

We have to agree to disagree, then. People with a propensity to join gangs will always find gangs to join. If not the Crips, then something about the same.

What we need is a stay of execution and a new trial to satisfy the public.

I don't believe there will be a new trial. If it is decreed he was wrongly convicted, he will be released. If not, the law will take its course, depending on Arnold, naturally.

That sounds like a good sound non-partial idea. I think something along those lines is what is going to happen. You can always execute someone but you can't un-execute them. I still haven't made up my mind about the whole thing. A new trial should clear alot of things up (and cost alot of money)

while I dont agree to the death penalty, as it clearly has been proven over time and time again that it is no 'deterant' for up and coming would be criminals

With Tookie, if he indeed did not kill some of the victims by his own hand I would not be, at the least bit suprised that he was involved in some way or another
..wake up people look who he was...he was the Leader/founder of the 'Crip' gang, one of the worse gangs in recent times, nothing even remotely like the girl scouts!! ..and how many people has he killed that the public do not know about???

actualy to be quite honest I think these sort of crims should be sent to Iraq instead! :wink:

We all assume the worst about accused people, afraid to be taken advantage of, afraid a mistake in judgement will unleash the killer elements among us. That's natural. But, we should be as careful with the evidence, even with the "obviously guilty" as we are with the rich and famous. I considered the cases against Robert Blake and O J Simpson open and shut, but they walked. The evidence against Tookie, from my research, appears to be much more flimsy than in those two cases, but people cry for his blood.

I agree. And I believe that we are more likely to convict Blacks than any other race. A good example, I was searching on the internet for news about my old high school a couple months ago and found a story, "Tigard Coach Investigated for Misconduct With a Minor". Rite under the headline was a picture of the teacher that I had for Sophomore health 16 years ago. The first thing that came to mind was there's no way that he did it! Yet, before he was even convicted his picture was posted in every news paper, essentially convicting him before he was even charged. He was the only black teacher at a school that is about 95% white.

And just last week I'm searching on news for Tigard High School and there is another coach, a younger woman who is under investigation for more serious charges including sodomy with a minor. Yet, there is no picture... Why was there a picture of the accused posted for one investigation and not the other?

I'm getting off topic here, but what I'm saying is, I can see how race is always a major factor in convictions.

"Race is always a major factor in convictions".....thats a bullshit statement
if ever I heard any!

Maybe race isn't a factor down there in New Zealand. But we have racial issues up here and they are very real.

Rehabilitation of killers. I will accept that when the people killed can again walk among us. IMO those who kill must pay the price for their actions. Someone mentioned that the rich get off because they can afford high priced lawyers. I am sure Tookie was not lacking the funds to afford the best. As to the new lawyers finding new evidence. What else would they claim.
I am sure most who are clamoring for a stay of execution on this forum would be doing so regardless of the question of guilt Since they are against the principle of capital punishment, That I submit is not the subject of this post.

Rehabilitation of killers. I will accept that when the people killed can again walk among us. IMO those who kill must pay the price for their actions. Someone mentioned that the rich get off because they can afford high priced lawyers. At some point in the last 26 years I am sure Tookie was not lacking the funds to afford the best. As to the new lawyers finding new evidence. What else would they claim.
I am sure most who are clamoring for a stay of execution on this forum would be doing so regardless of the question of guilt Since they are against the principle of capital punishment, That I submit is not the subject of this post.

I agree with you on the rehabilitation, as for the rich issue, there is our Republican view rearing it's ugly snout... Just like in hurricane Katrina, "Why didn't they all just jump into their beamers and go to their summer homes?"

No, not everybody can afford to be represented.

roverroad

This individual wrote and had books published he also won a Nobel prize. Funds were not a problem. And if they were with all the big names in his corner I have no doubt he could get the best lawyers to represent him pro bono.

we have our race related issues down here...but only a small amount, raised by ignorant radicals who just like to stir things up, the average New Zealander could'nt give a toss what colour any person is...but this is getting right off the topic.

I think more so its the 'money factor' than a racial issue if one has the means to fund themselves top lawyers, then one has a better chance to get a more leniant sentence...
like OJ Simpson to use as an example

Kiwi, there have been any number of studies done, showing that in the USA race is an apparent factor in sentencing, in conviction, in jury verdicts, you name it. From what I know about it, New Zealand is a shining example of what race relations should be.

Not when he is in prison. Prisoners don't make money. That money all goes to where ever the judge wants it to go to, but it rarely goes to the prisoner. Correct me if I'm wrong in this case.

Merry Andrew
Are you suggesting that he was convicted because of his race. And that he was an upstanding gentleman in whose mouth butter would not melt.