Islamic Propensity For Terrorism (Parisian Riots)

dlowan wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Radical Edward lives in the banlieu, and Francis could know more than just a bit about it as well.

Whoa, have they been around?

It would be great to hear from them.

Yes, on the banlieu thread.

The least alluring blocks, with peeling paint dotted by graffiti, are due for demolition, to be replaced by new low-rise social housing. Mikhail, a Serbian refugee who said he was 14 but looked closer to 18, lives in a block due to be pulled down. He speaks in the same nihilistic terms as many involved in the violence. "I don't really care where we get moved. It will still be the same - no work, no money, lots of police.

Which brings us to a second question: How ethnic is the present violence in France? Liberal commentators, both in France and abroad, tend to say that poverty and unemployment, rather than race or religion, are the driving force behind the riots. Mr. Villepin himself tends to share this view, at least in part. He said yesterday on TV that he is earmarking enormous credits for housing rehabilitation, education, and state-supported jobs in the areas where the unrest has developed. But the fact remains that only ethnic youths are rioting, that most of them explicitly pledge allegiance to Islam and such Muslim heroes as Osama bin Laden, that the Islamic motto - Allahu Akbar - is usually their war cry, and that they submit only to archconservative or radical imams.

The fact also remains, according to many witnesses, that the rioters torch only "white" cars, meaning white owned cars, and spare "Islamic" or "black" ones. One way to discriminate between them is to look for ethnic signs like a sticker with Koranic verses or a picture of the Kaaba in Mekka or a stylized map of Africa. Further evidence of the animating influence in the riots lies with the French rap music to which the perpetrators listen. Such music obsessively describes White France as a sexual prey.

A third and last question is what impact this unprecedented ordeal is likely to have on France and Europe? One would reasonably expect the French government to restore its grip over the country. What matters, however, is the long-term outcome. My guess is that the crisis will not be so easily forgotten or washed away among the "non-ethnic" citizens, including those of alien stock who have fully integrated into the French society as it is. Rejection of Islam and of North African, Black African, and Middle Eastern immigration may increase dramatically. And the prospect of Turkey acceding to the European Union may get even dimmer.

The fact also remains, according to many witnesses, that the rioters torch only "white" cars, meaning white owned cars, and spare "Islamic" or "black" ones.

Quote:

The fact also remains, according to many witnesses, that the rioters torch only "white" cars, meaning white owned cars, and spare "Islamic" or "black" ones.

At least that is something, I really doubt. (And not only, because no-one else - police, gendarmerie, police nationale, other media - reported such so far.) But what could you expect other from such a strong supporter of the conservative government like Garfinkiel is?

Villepin is not a liberal but a conservative - France has a conservative government and a conservative president.

French President Jacques Chirac has acknowledged his country has "undeniable problems" in poor city areas and must respond effectively.

He was making only his second public comments on the rioting that erupted in France two weeks ago.

"Whatever our origins we are all the children of the Republic and we can all expect the same rights," he said.

Violence subsided again overnight - there were clashes in Toulouse, but elsewhere unrest was only sporadic.

There was calm in the Paris area, where the riots began on 27 October.

Police reported 394 vehicles set ablaze across the country on Wednesday night, compared with Sunday's peak of 1,400.

"We will have to draw all the consequences of this crisis, once the time comes and order has been restored, and with a lot of courage and lucidity," Mr Chirac said in Paris.

"We need to respond in a strong and quick way to the undeniable problems which many inhabitants of the deprived neighbourhoods surrounding our cities are facing."

But Mr Chirac defended his use of state-of-emergency legislation, and said the priority was still to restore order.

"I want to take this chance to pay homage to the professionalism and sangfroid of the Republic's security forces," he said.

There is poverty and Unemployment in many major cities in the US. Any rioting going on ??

There is poverty and Unemployment in many major cities in the US. Any rioting going on ??

Really? Poverty and Unemployment?

There is poverty and Unemployment in many major cities in the US. Any rioting going on ??

As Youth Riots Spread Across France, Muslim Groups Attempt to Intervene

5 November, Washington Post

Sevran is at the epicenter of violence that has convulsed many poor immigrant areas in Paris's northern suburbs. After the sun set Friday night, the violence resumed. Police officers said Friday that approximately 1,260 vehicles had been torched in the Paris area in the past week.

The worst unrest in France in recent years has paralyzed the government, setting senior officials bickering over how to curb the violence. President Jacques Chirac has not publicly addressed the country other than to issue a statement through his spokesman appealing for calm.

some of the violence has been devastating. On Wednesday night, youths firebombed a bus here with the passengers inside. As the last passenger, a 56-year-old woman, descended the steps on crutches, an assailant splashed her with gasoline and another threw a flaming rag at her. The driver put out the flames and rushed her to a hospital.

The French government has deployed 1,300 riot police in the streets of troubled communities.

Two trains connecting Paris and the airport were attacked Thursday, prompting engineers to run only one in five trains on Friday. The U.S. Embassy warned travelers against taking trains to the airport, calling conditions in the troubled areas "extremely violent."

Bekkay Merzak of the Sevran Muslim Cultural Association said he dispatches a cadre of young volunteers door to door to plead: Young people, stay away from the violence; parents, keep your children in the house at night.

Police said the attackers' tactics began shifting Thursday night, with fewer incidents of large gangs confronting police and more incidents of small, fast-moving teams setting fires.

Rage of French Youth Is a Fight for Recognition

6 November, Washington Post

Mohammed Rezzoug, caretaker of the municipal gymnasium and soccer field, knows far more about the youths torching cars in this Paris suburb than do the police officers and French intelligence agents struggling to nail the culprits.

He can identify most of the perpetrators. So can almost everyone else in the neighborhoods that have been attacked.

While French politicians say the violence now spreading to towns across the country is the work of organized criminal gangs, the residents of Le Blanc-Mesnil know better.

"It's not a political revolution or a Muslim revolution," said Rezzoug. "There's a lot of rage. Through this burning, they're saying, 'I exist, I'm here.' "

Such a dramatic demand for recognition underscores the chasm between the fastest growing segment of France's population and the staid political hierarchy.

"We want to change the government," an 18-year-old whose parents moved here from Ivory Coast said. "There's no way of getting their attention. The only way to communicate is by burning."

He and others described the nightly rampages without fear, surrounded by groups of younger boys who listened with rapt attention. A few yards away, older residents of the neighborhood passed out notices appealing for an end to the violence.

A man with wire-rimmed glasses handed one of the sheets to the black-capped youth. He accepted the paper and smiled respectfully at his elder. The boy then carefully folded it in half and continued the conversation about how the nightly targets are selected.

"We don't plan anything," he said. "We just hit whatever we find at the moment."

Rezzoug said about 18 youths between the ages of 15 and 25 are responsible for most of the fires and attacks in Le Blanc-Mesnil. The youths said they dodge the authorities by splitting into small groups, text messaging to alert each other to the location of police and firefighters.

One man represents all they find abhorrent in the French government: Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who recommended waging a "war without mercy" against troublemakers in the poor areas.

"I'm a citizen of France, but I don't count," said an athletic 28-year-old who identified himself only as Abdel.

In a nation where unemployment has hovered at 10 percent this year, the rates are here four to five times as high among people under 25.

"We feel rejected, compared to the kids who live in better neighborhoods," said Nasim, a 16-year-old. "Everything here is broken down and abandoned.

Riots Spread Across France And Into Paris

6 November, Washington Post

Violence and arson spilled from the suburbs of Paris to at least 15 cities across France Saturday.

Police said groups of young men torched nearly 900 vehicles, nearly twice the number as the previous night, and at least a dozen schools, police stations and youth centers. Violence erupted in Strasbourg, Bordeaux, Rouen and Orleans.

Tactics were similar in all areas: mobile bands of youths set random blazes. Police responded more aggressively but remained largely helpless in preventing the violence.

Youths in the eastern suburban town of Meaux hurled rocks at paramedics attempting to evacuate a sick patient from a housing project, then set the waiting ambulance ablaze.

President Jacques Chirac has not publicly addressed the crisis since it began Oct. 27.

Residents and civic leaders held small, quiet marches in several towns in the Paris suburbs to protest the violence.

French violence hits fresh peak

7 November, BBC News

A night of rioting in France has left 1,408 vehicles burnt out and resulted in 395 arrests - the highest tolls yet .

Ten policemen were injured by shots and stones when they confronted 200 rioters in the Paris suburb of Grigny. Police had to use tear gas to disperse a club-wielding mob in Toulouse.

Muslim leaders of African and Arab communities have issued a fatwa, or religious order, against the riots.

Despite the controversy over Mr Sarkozy's remarks, an opinion poll this weekend showed him with an approval rating of 57%.

Police chiefs said their men were being deliberately confronted by gangs apparently intent on fighting them. "This is real, serious violence - not like the previous nights. I'm very worried because this is mounting."

"The law must have the last word," Mr Chirac told reporters in his first public address on the violence on Sunday.

French rioters injure, shoot at police

7 November, Reuters

Over 30 police were hurt as unrest spread and intensified.

The most shocking incident came in Grigny, south of Paris, where youths lured police onto a housing estate grounds and then attacked them with pellet guns.

The police union Action Police CFTC urged the government on Monday to clamp a curfew on the riot-hit areas and call in the army. "Nothing seems to be able to stop the civil war that spreads every day across the country," it said in a statement.

Reacting to official suggestions that Islamist militants might be stoking some of the protests, one of France's largest Muslim organizations issued a fatwa against the unrest.

Youths seized a bus in Saint-Etienne, ordering passengers off and torching the vehicle. In Strasbourg, rioters lobbed Molotov cocktails into a primary school. At Lens, a firebomb was thrown at a church. In Lille, a Belgian television reporter was beaten up.

Many feel trapped in the drab suburbs built in the 1960s and 1970s to house waves of immigrant workers. Their French-born children and grandchildren are now out on the streets demanding the equality France promised but mostly failed to deliver.

My friend in Belgium said authorities there intercepted some e-mails indicating more rioting.

As I've read on another forum some of the ground swell rioters are not the poor and disenfranchised...just kids from all walks getting involved for the hell of it....some e-mail campaign, eh?

Brand X wrote:

My friend in Belgium said authorities there intercepted some e-mails indicating more rioting.

As I've read on another forum some of the ground swell rioters are not the poor and disenfranchised...just kids from all walks getting involved for the hell of it....some e-mail campaign, eh?

Now that's interesting.

Cars set ablaze in Belgium in French copycat attacks
Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:00 PM GMT17
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By Bart Crols

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Youths set fire to 15 vehicles across Belgium in a fourth night of violence that authorities said imitated unrest in France, prompting the far-right to call for the perpetrators to be deported.

Belgian Interior Minister Patrick Dewael said there had been about 50 incidents since the weekend but preventative measures including more police patrols had kept things under control, although he warned there were calls to step up the disturbances.

"There is effectively a message -- a blog -- on the Internet calling for irresponsible acts of violence this Saturday in Brussels," Dewael told Belgian parliament.

"We have to remain vigilant."

"Burnt-out cars are rare in Belgium," a spokesman for a government crisis centre said. "This seems to be an attempt to imitate what is happening in France."

Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt told Reuters during a visit to Singapore that the burning of cars in Belgian cities were "isolated incidents" not comparable to the riots in France, which he described as a "very serious, serious situation".

"There is no question of urban guerrilla warfare or organised resistance," Dewael stressed.

The arson attacks late on Wednesday have not sparked worse violence across Belgium, which like France has big Muslim and African immigrant populations. Youth unemployment is high, but unlike France, Belgium's immigrants are not concentrated in ghetto-like areas around major cities.

Ten cars were set ablaze in Brussels, with the others in Antwerp and smaller towns, the crisis centre said. There were a number of arrests.

Brussels firefighters were called out 25 times to deal with attempted arson attacks, including three petrol bombs.

The far-right Vlaams Belang party -- which won 25 percent of the vote in the northern Flanders region last year -- called for the perpetrators to be deported if they were immigrants.

"(They) are no longer welcome in our country," Filip Dewinter, a top party leader, said on his personal Web site.

"In the case of foreigners, they need to be expelled. In the case of foreigners who hold Belgian nationality, they need to be stripped of their nationality," he said.

Belgian officials have tried to forestall violence by stepping up police patrols and increasing dialogue with immigrant community leaders.

Violence in French cities has lessened after the government took emergency powers to curb two weeks of unrest.