Islamic Propensity For Terrorism (Parisian Riots)

If I had been angry, I'd thank you.

I took more care than I usually do to carefully communicate my meaning--but I see it makes no difference. I added a clarification to make sure no one thought I referred to ALL Muslims in several of my comments--but nimh just decided to duck that fact, and again, portray me as someone who is prejudiced against all Muslims. He must adore self-righteous speechmaking, to willfully ignore so much to find fake offense.

For anyone actually reading for content and interested in the meaning of what I said earlier--The "earned" stereotype comments are to explain why I think Muslims aren't hired. Employers are afraid of the trouble that they believe will accompany someone with the stereotypical ritualistic, baggage of the Islamic faith. That is an opinion, and it likely holds truth. If it doesn't, I guess there are no prejudiced shopowners in France--so why are they not being hired?

This was interesting:

It leaves me super-frustrated tho. What IS the problem with that black-and-white thinking? Why does either everything or nothing need to be explained by this thing? Why is everyone who says that a specific allegation about the 'Islamic extremists being behind it all' is unfounded, to be assumed to be asserting that, oh, there must be no problem at all?
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Why is criticism and speaking of reasons why Muslims aren't getting hired assumed to be asserting it is supportable?

The headscarf issue shows a cultural, religious problem between Muslims and secular France--where the jobs are.

Stop wanting so badly to call someone a racist and have a dialogue.

Look how far you reached for this:

Lash wrote:
You purposefully created this for drama. I did not say "majority".

You wrote:

Quote:
further down the chain is one of the leading reasons Muslims aggregate in millets, as well as why they aren't hired or accepted. The (earned) stereotype of a worker who "can't follow this job duty", or "that aspect of the job" because of his religion, and he MUST pray five times a day. (etc etc).

Didnt exactly sound like you talked about a minority, did it?

Commonality of religion and culture and language are leading reasons for Chinatowns, millets, Little Italy's--do you deny it?

Earned stereotype--common practices of the religion, which are opposed to secular France (secular France being the location of the jobs.) As I said before (maybe you'll not avoid it this time): something as simple as refusing to take off the hijab could cause seroious problems in a workplace.

What I'm saying --not even placing a right or wrong anywhere near this issue-- is that these religious practices can produce real problems for employers. Think of lawsuits, protests of angry Muslims at your place of business, ... They have to be concerned about these things.

You shouldn't wave it away.

Why are Christian youth not being hired in France? (At least, they are the biggest number within the jobless youth in France.)

I'm not sure but I could think it has the same reasons as elsewhere wehere we find high numbers of youth unemployment.

A very interesting study about the French youth unemployment is to be found HERE.

Some more general information

Regional unemployment rates in the EU25 ranged from 2.4% to 32.8% in 2004 ; Rates varied from 5.4% to 56.6% for young people

There is no data on the religious affiliation of young unemployed people in France, I think you mentioned that as being part of the problem.

I listened to a program where a Frenchman was talking about the climate in France. You know how application forms for jobs or universities or even medical forms have these sections where you fill in your race, religion, ethnic background (and in the case of Manchester University, even sexual orientation) etc. etc? Well, apparently, France doesn't have them. It chooses to be completely race and religion blind, so if a problem does occur within a certain race and religion group, no one will be able to see it because the data isn't there.

what!? is required information? You cant get a degree unless they know your sexual orientation?

Perhaps the French approach is better.

As said, if someone wanted to know my "race" or ethnic background compulsory - they would be out of business within shortest time due to the public outcry.

Religion is sometimes needed for paying taxes.

No, maybe I didn't make myself clear, it's one of those ethnic opportunity forms tagged on to the end of an application form. You don't have to fill it in, and there's a "Prefer Not To Say" option as well. Their main purpose is to just provide data, though I would have preferred it if the Manchester University one was anonymous.

All I'm saying is that in France, from what I heard from the Frenchman, there is no such thing.

The 2001 census in Britain required a description of race and religion. How do you put the government out business? Would you have refused on principle to return the form Walter?

I did so in 1987/8 (but for different reasons) - thus being one of those thousans giving the reason for creating our data protection law. (The census in those days was called unconstitutional by our Federal Constitutional Court.)

"Race" will never be a topic here in census ... until we forget our past completely.

I certainly mention my religion when there's a need for it, like tax-related etc. And actually, I mention everything voluntarily, when I see the reason behind it.

why is religion tax related?

the funny thing about race is how to categorise it.

I think on the census form it said which ethnic group do you feel yourself to be a member

or something like that

categories e.g.

white
asian
afro carribbean
african


etc etc.

there was absolutely nothing to stop a white blue eyed blond person from describing him or herself as afro carribbean or asian, because it only asked the person to describe how THEY thought about THEMSELVES.

I remember on the religion question many people were outraged to be required to divulge such information. To show their displeasure, they described themselves as Jedi (after the Star Wars film) and so Jedi had to be officially recognised as a minority religion in Britain. (Actually of course it wasnt, the census people found a way of discounting the Jedi sect)

We pay church tax here: if you are a member of the Catholic or Protestant/Evangelical Churches, you have to pay church tax in Germany. Members of the Jewish community pay the Jewish culture tax ("Kultussteuer"), which corresponds to church tax. There is no tax for members of other religions.

walter wrote : "There is no tax for members of other religions. "
(there also was no tax to pay if one declared him/herself as : "gottglaeubig, i.e. "believing in god " ; of course there also was no tax if one declared : "glaubenslos" , i.e. "no belief" . )
aside from germany, there are probably not many states applying a "church tax " , are there ?
what is it like in sweden ? i seem to recall that in sweden the lutheran church was (a kind of ) state church ?
in canada, dues paid to churches can be claimed as charitable donations. hbg

Austria has church tax as well as Italy, Spain, Sweden, Finland and Iceland, while Belgium has "a kind of" - but Austria and Germany have the "most completely" so to say.

I have met many blue-eyed blonds/blondes who are Aboriginal Native American/Canadian Indians.

Pure BS

Anemic BS

Re: Finn's last two posts: bilious BS.

Today, in the "Assemblée nationale" more than 50 different French associations form the "Fédération des associations noires de France" (the "Alliance of French Black Associations").

"Bleu, Blancs, Noirs" occopies the frontapage of the daily 'Libération'.