1
   

Libby indicted

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 03:35 pm
Decide that you didn't want to bet, after all?

I don't blame ya

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 03:37 pm
MCG
I guess the millions spent by the government to prove that Clinton lied about a blow Job, by the republicans, was in your eyes well spent. After all what is the bigger crime. Lying about sex or a national security violation?What say you. HuH?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 03:39 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Decide that you didn't want to bet, after all?

I don't blame ya

Cycloptichorn


Too late ... we've already bet.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 03:42 pm
Oh, really? What's the wager?

I'm down for pretty much anything you choose, though the easiest would be a Gentleman's bet on our honor.

The terms? I contend that Fitzgerald is not done, and the investigation is not over; at least one more official in the WH will be indicted.

If this is acceptable to you, it is acceptable to me. If not, let me know your terms.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 04:02 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Oh, really? What's the wager?

I'm down for pretty much anything you choose, though the easiest would be a Gentleman's bet on our honor.


A gentelman's wager it is.

Quote:
The terms? I contend that Fitzgerald is not done, and the investigation is not over; at least one more official in the WH will be indicted.


I agree he's not done, but I predict no more indictments of WH officials stemming from his investigation.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 06:47 pm
I don't think there will be any more indictments either...but given the scoundrel nature of a politician who knows.

I still don't believe Wilson is squeaky clean in this...I think he and Reid will have egg on their faces due to their actions in trying to nail Rove and Co.....and there's enough egg to go around.

I ran across this old article that reports Wilson told Kerry's campaign about the allegations he was going to level against the Admin. before he went public with them...then he promptly joined Kerry's campaign. Could be why reporters knew who Plame was??? It is speculated his aim being to nail Rove at that time, get Kerry elected, get a cherry job in the WH and be a Dem Party hero. When Novak went public in his report is when the idea was born, it is believed by Chris Lehane before he was fired by the Kerry campaign, to connect the Plame leak to Rove. Lehane prolly took the story to NYT etc. trying to get a media storm started but it didn't happen...after his firing he's been dabbling in Calif. politics but out of the limelight of this issue.

Fitzgerald stated that Libby was on the front end of the chain of reporters who knew about Plame but if Libby isn't the originator, Fitz has work to do because Rove's defense team states that the investigated memo will exonerate him not implicate.

The whole thing seems to be a game of political 'get-backs' IF it is found that a member of the Admin. leaked her name, if not... it's ploy and a lie originating with Wilson.

Eggs can be a bitch though...and one may be meant for me if I'm wrong.

Quote:
In probe of CIA leak, two sides see politics

By Patrick Healy and Wayne Washington, Globe Staff, 10/2/2003

WASHINGTON -- The political relationships of two key figures in the dispute over whether a Bush administration aide leaked the identity of a CIA operative took center stage yesterday, as members of both parties contended that the case could be tainted by politics.


Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, who said a Bush aide disclosed that his wife is a CIA operative in retaliation for his criticism of the Iraq war, has worked since May as an unpaid adviser to Senator John F. Kerry, offering foreign policy advice and speechwriting tips to the Democratic presidential candidate from Massachusetts. Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie said Wilson's work for Democrats may have motivated him to attack the administration.

But Democrats noted that Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, who is overseeing the investigation, has had a long political relationship with President Bush's senior political adviser, Karl Rove. Rove was a strategist for Ashcroft's political campaigns in Missouri.

Rove remained a center of speculation yesterday about the case. Wilson has said that Rove condoned the leak and directed reporters to it after it appeared in a column by Robert Novak.

Under sharp questioning from reporters at an afternoon press conference, White House press secretary Scott McClellan insisted that Rove did not provide the leak or condone it, but declined to say whether Rove had pointed reporters toward news reports containing the information.

"Now, we're getting into issues such as, did anyone talk about what was in the news, what was reported in the paper, things of that nature," McClellan said. "That can go down a whole lot of different roads."

Later, McClellan added: "As I said previously, he was not involved, and that allegation is not true in terms of leaking classified information, nor would he condone it. But . . . we're not going to go down every single allegation that someone makes."

But legal specialists said that for an administration official even to point to published reports in a way that confirms those reports would be a violation of the federal law governing disclosure of classified information, punishable by five years in prison, a $25,000 fine, or both.

Morton Halperin, who helped craft the law when he worked for the American Civil Liberties Union in the 1980s, said it sets up a two-pronged test for government officials: An official would have to know the classified information is true and then transmit it. There is no protection, Halperin said, for government officials who directed others to that information after someone else disclosed it.

Philip Heymann, a professor at Harvard Law School, agreed. He also said that investigators could have an easier time getting to the bottom of the disclosures in this case than in other instances. "In general, a secret is known by the Defense Department, the White House, and the CIA," said Heymann, who was deputy attorney general during the Clinton administration. "That multiplies by 10 the number of people who know the secret. In this one, you're looking pretty hard at the White House and maybe 20 people."

The administration has promised to cooperate in every way it can, but some Republicans expressed anger yesterday at the way Wilson targeted Rove.

"Full disclosure is important here, so people can understand the context of Ambassador Wilson's comments all along," said John Feehery, a spokesman for House Speaker Dennis J. Hastert, Republican of Illinois. "He's certainly not a disinterested party here."

Kerry's advisers acknowledged yesterday that Wilson, who has also donated $2,000 to Kerry this year, told them about his allegations against the White House involving his wife before going public with them this summer. But Rand Beers, Kerry's top adviser on foreign affairs, said the campaign has not played a role in coordinating Wilson's charges.

In 2002 the Bush administration tapped Wilson, a career diplomat, to investigate British reports that Iraq sought to buy nuclear materials from Niger. Wilson found no evidence. But a year later, in his State of the Union speech, Bush cited intelligence reports that "Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Wilson challenged that statement in a July op-ed piece in The New York Times. A week later, Novak disclosed that two senior Bush officials had told him that Wilson's wife was a "CIA operative" who had suggested him for the Niger mission.

In the time between the State of the Union speech and Wilson's op-ed article, Wilson grew increasingly angry with Bush's leadership during the war and the uncontested assertions about nuclear material, Kerry advisers say. In mid-May, he began talking to Kerry's advisers about helping the campaign; he made his first donation May 23.

Kerry himself had not met Wilson until Tuesday night at a campaign fund-raiser in Potomac, Md., a Kerry aide said yesterday.

On a campaign swing through Texas yesterday, Kerry said he was troubled that some Republicans have questioned Wilson's donations. "This smacks of Nixonian attacks: When you're caught doing something wrong, you retaliate by attacking the person telling the truth," he said. Wilson has had political and financial ties to both Democrats and Republicans: He was lauded by former President George H.W. Bush for "truly inspiring" service as head of the US Embassy in Baghdad during the run-up to the first Gulf War, and he donated $2,000 to the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2000.

Kerry spokeswoman Kelley Benander said yesterday that Wilson's campaign portfolio includes such issues as Iraq, weapons of mass destruction, the Liberian conflict, and Africa. Beers said Wilson communicates with campaign advisers at least once a week. He is one of about 35 people contributing ideas to the campaign, Benander said.

Democrats on Capitol Hill seized on Ashcroft's past relationship with Rove as reason that he should appoint a special counsel, free of Justice Department scrutiny, to oversee the investigation. Democrats in Missouri, where Ashcroft served as governor and US senator before Bush asked him to run the Justice Department, said Rove worked on political campaigns for Ashcroft in 1984, 1988, and 1992. "It's one thing to meet a guy at a cocktail party," said Roy Temple, a Democratic strategist in Missouri. "This guy was part of his strategic team."

White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said Rove has acknowledged helping Ashcroft on one and perhaps two campaigns.

A Justice Department official reached last night would not comment on any Rove-Ashcroft connections and emphasized it is still possible the attorney general could appoint a special counsel.


Source
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 08:49 pm
McGentrix wrote:
So, 2 years, millions of dollars, thousands of man hours and all they got was that Libby lied to the grand jury? Huh. Good use of my money there... I hope the Dem's in government are happy with the results.


Millions of dollars? Guess again, McMisinformed. Two years? Wrong again. Seems to me there was a certian prosecution that did cost the taxpayers millions and cam up with NOTHING! Fitz could have wrapped this up a year ago if witnessess told tghe truth and didn't refuse to testify.

Will all the WH evil-doers be fully prosecuted? I doubt it. But I am confident that the truth will come out someday about this i.e. that the WH lied us into war then obstructed justice by trying to cover it up. Bush, Cheney and Rove are merely hoping they can get by with their tactic of plausible deniabilty.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 08:52 pm
The facts stated in the indictment of Libby leave little doubt where the leaks came from.

From your story Brand X

Quote:
Under sharp questioning from reporters at an afternoon press conference, White House press secretary Scott McClellan insisted that Rove did not provide the leak or condone it, but declined to say whether Rove had pointed reporters toward news reports containing the information.


The egg isn't on the Dems in this one. It is all over the WH. They stated that Rove didn't leak but Rove testifed to the GJ that he did inform people and was the second source for Novak.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 09:31 pm
parados wrote:
The facts stated in the indictment of Libby leave little doubt where the leaks came from.

From your story Brand X

Quote:
Under sharp questioning from reporters at an afternoon press conference, White House press secretary Scott McClellan insisted that Rove did not provide the leak or condone it, but declined to say whether Rove had pointed reporters toward news reports containing the information.


The egg isn't on the Dems in this one. It is all over the WH. They stated that Rove didn't leak but Rove testifed to the GJ that he did inform people and was the second source for Novak.


Define "leak."
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 09:38 pm
parados wrote:
The facts stated in the indictment of Libby leave little doubt where the leaks came from.

From your story Brand X

Quote:
Under sharp questioning from reporters at an afternoon press conference, White House press secretary Scott McClellan insisted that Rove did not provide the leak or condone it, but declined to say whether Rove had pointed reporters toward news reports containing the information.


The egg isn't on the Dems in this one. It is all over the WH. They stated that Rove didn't leak but Rove testifed to the GJ that he did inform people and was the second source for Novak.


The few still willing to defend these criminals cannot be reasoned with, but I applaud you for trying.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 10:02 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So, 2 years, millions of dollars, thousands of man hours and all they got was that Libby lied to the grand jury? Huh. Good use of my money there... I hope the Dem's in government are happy with the results.


I'm sure they could have taken longer and spent more if they had a special prosecutor. BTW, I think it was Bush that ordered the investigation.


In September, 2003, the CIA asked the Justice Department to investigate the matter. Ashcroft subsequently recused himself, and Dep. Atty. Gen. James Comey appointed Fitzgerald special counsel.

But don't let that stop you from blaming Bush for everything.


Blaming him? I was giving him credit. But don't let that stop you from misinterpreting everything.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 10:09 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So, 2 years, millions of dollars, thousands of man hours and all they got was that Libby lied to the grand jury? Huh. Good use of my money there... I hope the Dem's in government are happy with the results.


I'm sure they could have taken longer and spent more if they had a special prosecutor. BTW, I think it was Bush that ordered the investigation.


In September, 2003, the CIA asked the Justice Department to investigate the matter. Ashcroft subsequently recused himself, and Dep. Atty. Gen. James Comey appointed Fitzgerald special counsel.

But don't let that stop you from blaming Bush for everything.


Blaming him? I was giving him credit. But don't let that stop you from misinterpreting everything.


Sometimes there's a thin line between blame and congratulations.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 10:13 pm
Tico, I have no doubt that Bush is responsible for many an ill, but my remark was only in response to McG's "I hope the Dem's in government are happy now" comment which I took to mean it was somehow their fault that this investigation went on. So take it easy their, britches. I know it's been a rough two weeks on you folks but no need to be over-sensitive.

Smooch.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 10:16 pm
Au contraire, FD. It's been a good week.

The CIA is responsible for the investigation.


And smooch right back atcha.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 10:26 pm
Ok, CIA, whatever. The point was as previously explained so it really doesn't matter. What, do you get a nickel for each right answer?

And I said a rough two weeks, referring to the previous one as well. I'm sure you lot are a bit happier since Monday, though, and I'm glad. I don't think I could take too much of the glum Tico.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 11:24 pm
heehee.....Limbaugh has been saying the CIA are traitors trying to bring down Bush...


Lot of traitors in the USA.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 09:12 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Ok, CIA, whatever. The point was as previously explained so it really doesn't matter. What, do you get a nickel for each right answer?


Boy, if I got a nickel for each time I was right ....
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 09:13 am
dlowan wrote:
heehee.....Limbaugh has been saying the CIA are traitors trying to bring down Bush...


David or Rush?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 10:35 am
Ticomaya wrote:
parados wrote:
The facts stated in the indictment of Libby leave little doubt where the leaks came from.

From your story Brand X

Quote:
Under sharp questioning from reporters at an afternoon press conference, White House press secretary Scott McClellan insisted that Rove did not provide the leak or condone it, but declined to say whether Rove had pointed reporters toward news reports containing the information.


The egg isn't on the Dems in this one. It is all over the WH. They stated that Rove didn't leak but Rove testifed to the GJ that he did inform people and was the second source for Novak.


Define "leak."


Leak is defined in any of the ways following that the WH denied that Rove told any reporter anything about Plame or Wilson's wife.

Quote:
Q On the Robert Novak-Joseph Wilson situation, Novak reported earlier this year -- quoting -- "anonymous government sources" telling him that Wilson's wife was a CIA operative. Now, this is apparently a federal offense, to burn the cover a CIA operative. Wilson now believes that the person who did this was Karl Rove. He's quoted from a speech last month as saying, "At the end of the day, it's of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs." Did Karl Rove tell that --

MR. McCLELLAN: I haven't heard that. That's just totally ridiculous. But we've already addressed this issue. If I could find out who anonymous people were, I would. I just said, it's totally ridiculous.

Q But did Karl Rove do it?

MR. McCLELLAN: I said, it's totally ridiculous.


Quote:
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry, contact them in the sense of asking whether or not there is any involvement?

Q Well, obviously, someone contacted Karl Rove. There was some effort to knock down a specific allegation here. So I'm wondering, why not contact others? Were others contacted in the -- among the President's senior advisors?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, there was a specific allegation leveled -- I saw it has now since been backed away from -- about Karl Rove. And that's why I responded to that question.
Quote:
Q Will the President move aggressively to see if such a transgression has occurred in the White House? Will he ask top White House officials to sign statements saying that they did not give the information?

MR. McCLELLAN: Bill, if someone leaked classified information of this nature

Quote:
Q All right. Let me just follow up. You said this morning, "The President knows" that Karl Rove wasn't involved. How does he know that?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I've made it very clear that it was a ridiculous suggestion in the first place. I saw some comments this morning from the person who made that suggestion, backing away from that. And I said it is simply not true. So, I mean, it's public knowledge. I've said that it's not true. And I have spoken with Karl Rove --


The WH denied that Rove was one of Novak's sources. The WH stated that Rove was not in any way involved in the revelation of Plame as a CIA agent. Both are factually false statements. Rove WAS involved. He WAS one of Novak's sources. Make up more meanings of words Tico. "Leak" is pretty clearly defined in the course of a couple of press briefings where Rove's involvement was denied in any and all forms.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 10:55 am
Thanks for the bet, Tico, I accept.

My money is resting on 'Official A' being indicted. Nothing like a good ol' unnamed official.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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