Katrina-Bush and the political questions begin

Momma Angel wrote:

panzade wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
I happen to be one of those that do not believe women should be in politics, especially in seats such as governor.

Too bad. Now I'll have to discount your opinions.

You don't agree with "one" thing I say so you are going to discount all of my opinions? Am I reading that correctly?

Yes you are. Just like when I hear someone say" Those Ni**ers had it coming..." or"Women can't govern"

I shut my ears. Racism, sexism...not much different.

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sozobe wrote:

panzade, the point I thought was interesting was that the blame-shifting is itself very Third World.

Oh my, just saw Momma Angel's latest about women in politics. Gosh.

Sozobe,

There are quite a few things about me you and others would probably be very surprised to hear. You must remember though, I was raised in a time when the father was supposed to be the head of the family, and as long as he was following God's teachings, then his wife and children were to follow him. Now, that wasn't quite the case in my family (as far as my father doing what was right), but I believed in those values and I still do.

So, don't be taken aback by the fact I don't agree with women in politics. I will admit, however, there have been women in politics who have been effective in their service. And no, just because a woman runs for an office, it does not mean I won't vote for her just because she is a woman. I believe very strongly in the right person for the right job. There are times that I have to put personal feelings aside to do what I feel is in the best interest of the general situation. I believe this is something everyone should do.

So, take some smelling salts girl! LOL.

Panzade,

Too bad this didn't get posted before your last post. I am in no way, racist, a bigot, sexist, etc. In NO WAY whatsoever.

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sozobe wrote:

panzade, the point I thought was interesting was that the blame-shifting is itself very Third World.

My point was that I thought fb was wrong. In a lot of the third world(I hate that term) open discussion of government or state failure is not allowed. One of our strengths is the ability to criticize and throw blame.

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panzade wrote:

sozobe wrote:
panzade, the point I thought was interesting was that the blame-shifting is itself very Third World.

My point was that I thought fb was wrong. In a lot of the third world(I hate that term) open discussion of government or state failure is not allowed. One of our strengths is the ability to criticize and throw blame.

I view the ability to criticize and throw blame more of a weakness than a strength. Strength is recognizing the problem, discussing it, and doing something to fix it, no matter who is to blame.

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Hmmm... I guess it depends on which part. I agree about our strength in being free to criticize, but I think "the buck stops here", efficiency, and leadership are very first-world attributes -- which are currently in short supply.

Momma Angel, of course I'm taken aback that you think women shouldn't be in politics. It's a pretty clear statement of, to me, unacceptable bias.

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Actually, let me rephrase that -- I'm not particularly taken aback as in surprised at you, as that sentiment does indeed seem to be of a piece with many other things you've stated thus far on A2K. I am taken aback as in "someone in the year 2005 actually thinks that? Wow."

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Momma Angel wrote:

I view the ability to criticize and throw blame more of a weakness than a strength.

You're blowing my mind here sister. This is one of the bulwarks of a democracy. Criticism doesn't cancel out action IMO.

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sozobe wrote:

Actually, let me rephrase that -- I'm not particularly taken aback as in surprised at you, as that sentiment does indeed seem to be of a piece with many other things you've stated thus far on A2K. I am taken aback as in "someone in the year 2005 actually thinks that? Wow."

Understood, Sozobe. But, did you read my followup posts on that feeling? I am just one person in this world. I, as well as everyone else, has their own personal views. But, I do my very best to put personal views aside that may seemed biased in regard to making decisions. I try to make well-informed decisions after gathering plenty of facts. So, if a woman running for the office of governor would clearly be the better choice, then most definitely, she would get my vote. I do not believe all women, all men, all anything concerning human beings is the case. There are so many exceptions to every rule. So, please understand, I would NEVER discount a woman gaining a political office if she were the right person for the job.

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Panzade Wrote:

Quote:

You're blowing my mind here sister. This is one of the bulwarks of a democracy. Criticism doesn't cancel out action IMO.

Uh, and just where did it say I said that? You stated what you thought was a strength and I stated I felt it was a weakness and stated what I felt a strength was.

I did not say "criticism cancels out action", nor do I feel this is the case. I feel that it is fine to define the problem and then find a resolution to the problem. Continual criticism is not finding a resolution.

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Quote:

There are so many exceptions to every rule.

But then why have the rule?

Your "rule" is the only thing I take issue with. Everything else you say as the exception is what I think should be the rule -- vote for the best person for the job, no matter what gender that person happens to be.

It simply doesn't get more clearly biased than: "I happen to be one of those that do not believe women should be in politics, especially in seats such as governor."

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sozobe wrote:

Quote:
There are so many exceptions to every rule.

But then why have the rule?

Your "rule" is the only thing I take issue with. Everything else you say as the exception is what I think should be the rule -- vote for the best person for the job, no matter what gender that person happens to be.

It simply doesn't get more clearly biased than: "I happen to be one of those that do not believe women should be in politics, especially in seats such as governor."

Why have any rules then if there are exceptions to them all? That's just the way it is. So, let me rephrase that. I happen to be one of those that believe, for the most part, women should not hold the higher seats in government. However, there are exceptions to this and it is my responsibility as a human being and an American citizen to put aside whatever bias I may personally hold, to vote for the right person for the job, whether it be man or woman.

Is that more acceptable? Let's put it this way, if Martha Stewart ran for dogcatcher, I wouldn't vote for her, as she is not exactly what I would call a person capable of putting aside her personal ego for the greater good. She is a rather extreme example, but an example.

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Momma, I bear no animosity. But to me you're harking back to another time. A time, thank God that we'll not see again.
Nevertheless . Bless you for your altruism.

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Momma Angel wrote:

But, I do my very best to put personal views aside that may seemed biased in regard to making decisions.

That's one reason to think you're substantially more qualified than the male president you think you ought not replace. Why not?

Momma Angel wrote:

I try to make well-informed decisions after gathering plenty of facts.

There's one more. Smile

Momma Angel wrote:

So, please understand, I would NEVER discount a woman gaining a political office if she were the right person for the job.

Then you must believe that something makes women systematically less likely to be "the right person for the job". What is it?

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I don't know what is so third-worldly as blame-putting or blame-shifting. Seems to me that all countries do it.

Emergency management protection - how about hiring someone qualified to do the job, Tico?

I have a hunch that since an emergency had already been declared on a federal level, and help supposedly was on the way, whatever went on between Bush and the Governor re: needing 24 hours might have been interpreted as being something else entirely. Independent of whether federal disaster assistance had been mobilized, not contingent upon it. I may be wrong.

Couple of other things up there that I find either absurd or despicable, but I don't care to go there.

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That you admit it's bias is refreshing. (There have been a whole lot of discussions here that start with a similar statement but contain the refrain "but I'm not biased/ sexist/ racist!!")

The Martha Stewart thing is neither here nor there, though. I wouldn't vote for [John Gotti or Bernard Ebbers or Ken Lay or whomever] for dogcatcher, either. However, I don't think it follows that "I happen to be one of those that do not believe men should be in politics, especially in seats such as governor."

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I'm not shocked; I'm disgusted
I'm not shocked at Momma Angel's beliefs, I'm disgusted.

In some of my previous post exchanges with Momma Angel, I was too polite to state what I thought she really is based on a number of her posts. I called her an elitist instead. She denied she was an elitist just as she now denies her true character: "I am in no way, racist, a bigot, sexist, etc. In NO WAY whatsoever." It's too late for her to claim she's not all those types of people she listed in her last post. She's already amply demonstrated that the shoe, in fact, does fit.

I visited Momma Angel's web site. I studied what sshe claims to do and who is involved. I studied her photograph to see if it matched my impression of her. It didn't and I was surprised. I can't post the site's link here because the A2K moderators have already deleted it once before on another thread. One strong impression I got from this information is that a clever woman has found a use for A2K to support her personal efforts and in spreading her mission and philosophy, including her fund raising efforts.

Now I could be all wrong about my impressions and conclusions. If I am, then I'm prepared to apologize.

I guess my question to Momma Angel is: Are you using A2K to further your self-interests and the mission of your site?"

BBB

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I believe, that for most of us, drawing distinctions of non-physical ability based on gender is a sign of further problems with one's worldview.

The natural state of Humanity is to hate your neighbors, fear those who don't look like you and your tribe, and for the domination of men over women; but we've progressed somewhat past that, don't you think?

Cycloptichorn

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BBB

You are - may I say so - one of the more senior members here, by membership and surely by age as well.

But someone, who "was raised in a time when the father was supposed to be the head of the family, and as long as he was following God's teachings, then his wife and children were to follow him" surely is 30, if not 40 years older than you.

So, a bit more respect, please :wink:

Katrina-Bush and the political questions begin

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